Of the two spots I frequent, one is private property (a business) at a grade crossing and the other is a public recreational park. Often times I am there early Saturday/Sunday morning just before dawn. So far no one called the cops.
To those of us just getting into the hobby, are there some do's and don't's we should be aware of?
Regards - Steve
My advice would be to stay off of any private property unless you have WRITTEN permission. Yes, it can be difficult to get such permissions, but if you do not, you risk having a not-too-pleasant chat with law enforcement. And I emphasize written, because on a Sunday morning, there may not be any of the property owners available to corroborate your claim of permission.
The park sounds like a much better choice. As does any location that is open to the public.
However, no matter how much you may be in the right regarding your choice of location, it is nearly inevitable that at some point you will be visited by the cops. Mr. & Mrs. America are so primed by the media to be paranoid, that some dolt will see you and get their undies in a bunch worrying.
A few years ago, I was sitting in the parking lot of a city park along the CN tracks in north-central Wisconsin, in the middle of the day, with my tripod set up with the camera mounted on it, when this local Barney Fife rolls up and asks me (seriously) what I was doing, why I was there, why was I taking pictures of trains, etc. Never mind that I was in a location totally accessible to the public, that I am a average-looking typical white male of 60+ years old, and that my little Ford Ranger pickup was bright red. This "peace" officer (do they still call themselves that?) started questioning me. He was a real piece of ****, and if he was really that stupid, he did not deserve his badge.
But, and this is my point, he has the authority, and there is nothing you can do about it except be polite, truthful, and hope for the best. Certainly there are smart, reasonable cops; but I got tired of worrying that I might get the cop who just got yelled at by his boss, or his wife, or that his donuts were stale. Getting hassled is one of the main reasons I gave up railfanning; it just wasn't worth the risk.
I sure liked it better when we lived in the land of the free.
steve-in-kvilleTo those of us just getting into the hobby, are there some do's and don't's we should be aware of?
Before the days of Homeland Security, there was a document called the Photographer's Bill of Rights. You could produce this if there were any concern over your ability to be present on, or photograph from, public areas. These days you may be ill-advised to make any kind of "argument" if questioned. Just tell the truth about your interest, show them a couple of pictures, go if they tell you to move.
I've found it invaluable in the past to cultivate friendships with the police and local officials. They can pass the word about 'you and cameras' to defuse many situations before they can get started. And you have someone they can call if any question arises.
Be particularly careful if photographing facilities -- even innocuous-looking ones. A building immediately adjacent to some of Steamtown's collection is a military contractor, and while I'm sure you wouldn't know what they did in there, taking pictures including it might be interpreted as espionage. Some industrial concerns or institutions like Federal credit unions may be hypersensitive about their property, employees, or clients being photographed, even inadvertently.
I was shooting pictures in Newark Penn Station when police approached me. When I told them I was photographing trains, they said the station had a general ban on photography, for an interesting reason: PIs were getting 'candid' shots of alleged malefactors for divorce cases and the like. They said as long as I took train pictures with no "people" in them I should be OK ... but someone who looked different from me, or who had no good and truthful story, might have been asked to vacate the premises -- which agents of a private-property owner can do at any time, for no stated reason.
Carry a cell phone, and be prepared to call the police yourself the moment anyone attempts to interfere with your photography. In this marvelous twenty-first century it appears that local citizens have been encouraged to inform on any goings-on that might involve terrorism, and what could be more proof than someone photographing railroad tracks -- they're plotting to put innocent communities in the Blast Zone! I've heard some horror stories of what happens when the less properly-hinged members of the public decide to start implementing law enforcement a little early or a little overzealously. In such cases, be the first to invoke the police ... and always be prepared to move quickly to be safe.
Which reminds me ... very many good prospective locations for rail action are, shall we say, something less than safe neighborhoods. Wise to keep an eye out, particularly if you have an easily-resalable camera.
Welcome to the age of "If you see something, say something." In and of itself, that's not a bad thing. One local resident here not only said something, but held a perp who was breaking into cars until police could arrive.
That said, if you are confronted by the police, as has been said, be polite. Even a reasonable officer of the law may react unfavorably (to you) if you puff up your chest and vehemently insist you are within your rights. The same goes if John Q. Public decides to take the law in his own hands.
There are many misconceptions as to what is legal and what is not - this was especially an issue immediately after 9-11. People "know" you can't do what you're doing. At least they believe they know - and that's the worst kind.
The age of cell phones is really a problem in some respects. People don't have to seek out a pay phone or wait until they get home. They can call right then and there.
As a fire fighter, I've been out to too many calls where a passing motorist has reported someone's bonfire, in their back yard, with people around it, as a possible structure fire.
Worse, those callers often have no idea where they actually are, so the actual location of many incidents is some distance from where said callers report them to be.
As I believe we discussed in the "why railfan" thread - people often don't understand anyone's fascination with [name your topic]. Thus, to them, any activity such as watching trains, chasing fires, you-name-it, is unusual and bears attention.
Finally, if you do your watching in the same place on a regular basis, get to know the railroad landmarks, and put the appropriate railroad emergency numbers in your cell phone. If you see something, say something (there's a reason railroad employees are required to inspect passing trains). Be smart, though, if you decide to report a problem. A sliding wheel or a shifted load is a problem. A flapping tarp probably isn't.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
All good points already mentioned. Stay on public property, and try to make yourself invisible to others...including train crews. When I'm out I don't want to test the limits of what's allowed nor do I want to get into pointless confrontations (get enough of that already in other areas of my life). So I stay on public land and out of sight.
tree68... get to know the railroad landmarks, and put the appropriate railroad emergency numbers in your cell phone.
Be reasonably sure what those numbers are, too: the 'best' number may not be the one printed on a crossing sign. Often a first-responder service like your 911 office will know the 'railroad police' numbers which would be a reasonable place to start; if a more specialized response is needed, the railroad police are as likely as anyone to know how, and to how many other places or people, further action should be taken.
I've successfully reported locomotive fires, traction-motor fires, several fiery sticking brakes, at least one terminally bad roller bearing, and several vehicles stuck on tracks. It definitely helps to know things like the specific technical cause of problems if you think you know it, or the number of cars back in the train a problem with it might be. In one case I phoned in from the car, I stopped with my flashers on (on a public road adjacent to the tracks) until someone from the head end could walk back to see about a problem -- made it easy for them to find it.
If you see something, say something (there's a reason railroad employees are required to inspect passing trains). Be smart, though, if you decide to report a problem. A sliding wheel or a shifted load is a problem. A flapping tarp probably isn't.
But a flapping tarp with a loose flapping binder-strap buckle probably is. If you aren't certain if there's danger, it might be wise to err on the side of caution; let the person on the other end of the call decide if it turns out to be important. Worst thing that can happen is that you gave the railroad police desk a little entertainment...
OvermodBut a flapping tarp with a loose flapping binder-strap buckle probably is.
True that. I was looking for an inoccuous example.
Confused the heck out of the CSX call taker once not long ago when I called in a very large tarp haphazardly draped over a tank car. The car was passing through Deshler. I was at home in NY, calling it in based on what I was seeing on the Deshler rail cam.
The tarp covered most of the car, but didn't appear to have been placed as it was intentially.
Always clean up behind yourself.. Some past popular places on private property that tolerated railfans at a time are now off limits now due to pigs who refused to clean up their trash..
+1
There's no excuse for littering. Ever.
steve-in-kvilleor obviously if my small children are with, they realize I'm not much of a threat.
The children might not be as good an alibi as you might think.
A private property owner, particularly one with deep pockets, might see your presence as a potential liability. In the event you or your children get injured on their property, well I'm sure you can imagine the rest.
In addition to the other good advice you've gotten here, I'd just like to add that authority figures tend to have inflated egos. You can play that to your advantage by displaying a willingness to cooperate. When confronted with legitimate authority, appologize for being where you are not supposed to be, plead ignorance, display a willingness to leave, and offer an assurace that it won't happen again......and you'll likely leave behind a puffed up chest congratulating themselves for another "job well done". The good part about that is that you're leaving 'Barney Fife' behind.
In all other instances where there is no such confrontation, I think that leaving the area the same way you found it, such that no one could tell you had even been there, is golden advice. If you leave behind empty pop bottles, cigarette butts, and hamburger wrappers, people might decide you are a problem when otherwise they might not even care.
OvermodBe reasonably sure what those numbers are, too: the 'best' number may not be the one printed on a crossing sign. Often a first-responder service like your 911 office will know the 'railroad police' numbers which would be a reasonable place to start; if a more specialized response is needed, the railroad police are as likely as anyone to know how, and to how many other places or people, further action should be taken.
Or 911 will run around in circles calling the 3 railroads in their county that cross 4 Main streets at 5 different places.
The number on the crossing sign (with the xing number) is almost always going to be the best number to call.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Ulrich All good points already mentioned. Stay on public property, and try to make yourself invisible to others...including train crews. When I'm out I don't want to test the limits of what's allowed nor do I want to get into pointless confrontations (get enough of that already in other areas of my life). So I stay on public land and out of sight.
Well said. As a railroader and a railfan I could not have put it better myself.
In today's day and age a true railfan is rarely if ever seen by the crews. It's the worst foamers (those who make a spectacle, trespass or put themselves in harm's way, deliberately or accidentally) who tend to be seen by crews, and this has unfortunately given all railfans a negative reputation that I don't think is repairable.
There's no real point to being seen anyway, the days of cab tours and rides are long over. I think that is unfortunate, but it is the current reality.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude Ulrich All good points already mentioned. Stay on public property, and try to make yourself invisible to others...including train crews. When I'm out I don't want to test the limits of what's allowed nor do I want to get into pointless confrontations (get enough of that already in other areas of my life). So I stay on public land and out of sight. Well said. As a railroader and a railfan I could not have put it better myself. In today's day and age a true railfan is rarely if ever seen by the crews. It's the worst foamers (those who make a spectacle, trespass or put themselves in harm's way, deliberately or accidentally) who tend to be seen by crews, and this has unfortunately given all railfans a negative reputation that I don't think is repairable. There's no real point to being seen anyway, the days of cab tours and rides are long over. I think that is unfortunate, but it is the current reality.
And this as well us an excelent piece of advice as posted in this Thread,earlier, [in part[ by Convicted One "...A private property owner, particularly one with deep pockets, might see your presence as a potential liability. In the event you or your children get injured on their property, well I'm sure you can imagine the rest.
In addition to the other good advice you've gotten here, I'd just like to add that authority figures tend to have inflated egos. You can play that to your advantage by displaying a willingness to cooperate. When confronted with legitimate authority, appologize for being where you are not supposed to be, plead ignorance, display a willingness to leave, and offer an assurace that it won't happen again......and you'll likely leave behind a puffed up chest congratulating themselves for another "job well done". The good part about that is that you're leaving 'Barney Fife' behind..."
In this area we host the Spirit Aviation Plant [ Home to the fuselage builder of various B-737 varient aircraft] . They start their trip here on their way to being 'finished' in the Seattle area.
They store their specialized transport cars in a small mult-itrack holding yard at the plant. When loaded they are retrieved by a BNSF switch crew.
Just to take photos from the adjacent public roadways gets the plant security in an uproar; not to mention, the local WPD can also be called. Then the arant railfan photog becomes the center of all the wierdness that can happen, and has been mentioned in this Thread, and elsewhere; in other Forum Threads on photography from public/private(?) viewing points.
[ Not to also mention; there is no signage visible, that precludes the above mentioned activities.]
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