While in Alpine, which is a crew change point for the UP, I struck up a conversation with a UP conductor. He was getting ready to take a train from Alpine to Del Rio. He told me that with luck they would make it to Del Rio in 10 to 11 hours.
Del Rio is about 205 miles from Alpine. So, assuming that the train does not encounter any problems, sitting in the left seat of a locomotive for 10 to 11 hours strikes me as being a bore.
What are the typical duties of a freight train conductor? How does he fight boredom?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
I'm assuming this is a through train - that they'll have no work enroute.
Once the conductor is sure of his paperwork, his attention will turn to the same thing the engineer looking at - the track ahead, including signals and other significant items like facing point switches or defects. If there are signals, they'll be calling them across the cab.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
PJS1What are the typical duties of a freight train conductor? How does he fight boredom?
Keeping the engineer engaged so he doesn't break a knuckle two-thirds of the way back in the train?
ChuckCobleigh PJS1 What are the typical duties of a freight train conductor? How does he fight boredom? Keeping the engineer engaged so he doesn't break a knuckle two-thirds of the way back in the train?
PJS1 What are the typical duties of a freight train conductor? How does he fight boredom?
Inspecting the train in accordance with reports issued by the various kinds of defect dectors the carriers utilize, and then making decisions upon what is found in viewing the defects. Inspecting the train when a UnDesired Emergency (UDE) application of the air brakes and resolving the issue(s) that caused it as well as insuring all HAZMAT in the train is on the rail. These inspections take place in all varieties of weather - from heatstroke to frostbite and all forms of percipitation in between. All the while carrying tools and supplies to rectify the most likely causes of the UDE (a large adjustable wrench, air hose, air hose gaskets, duct tape, bungee cords and probably a half dozen other things they have learned from experience to have with them).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68 I'm assuming this is a through train - that they'll have no work enroute.
All the trains that pass through Alpine are eastbound from El Paso or westbound from San Antonio.
The man I talked with said that he had been with the railroad for more than 30 years. He has five years to go, so he said, and he can hardly wait to retire.
Are engineers paid more than conductors?
Why would a person spend a career as a conductor? If it were me I would want to be an engineer.
Who is the train boss? The conductor or the engineer?
PJS1 tree68 I'm assuming this is a through train - that they'll have no work enroute. All the trains that pass through Alpine are eastbound from El Paso or westbound from San Antonio. The man I talked with said that he had been with the railroad for more than 30 years. He has five years to go, so he said, and he can hardly wait to retire. Are engineers paid more than conductors? Why would a person spend a career as a conductor? If it were me I would want to be an engineer. Who is the train boss? The conductor or the engineer?
My understanding, and I could be mistaken, Conductors with seniority dates subsequent to 1985 are required to take a 'promotion' to Engineer Training when they are called upon in seniority order. If they don't take the 'promotion' then they get to explore Railroad Retirement Unemployment until that runs out.
Engineers do earn several dollars a day more than Conductors - your contract may vary.
Why would a person spend a career as a conductor? Primarly fear. Fear that they can't pass the various examinations that are part of engineer training, fear of being the ONE controlling the physical movement of the train. Fear of the unknown is a real motivation destroyer among many people who don't have confidence in their own abilities. A secondary consideration is that becoming a qualified Engineer then places them at the very bottom of the Engineer's Seniority Roster with all the aggrivation and lack of job selection that comes from being low man on the totem pole.
The Conductor is the party responsible to communicate with Emergency Personel about the contents of the train when accidents happen. If that would define him as the Boss, so be it. In Passenger service the Conductor is the one that deals with local police in the removal of unruly passengers as well as being responsible for the financial transactions for passage that happen ON the train.
PJS1Why would a person spend a career as a conductor? If it were me I would want to be an engineer.
One of our conductors has no desire to become an engineer, as he prefers to mix and interact with the passengers. He's got a student card for the eventual "just in case."
As I mentioned in my original post, Alpine is a crew change point for the UP.
On Wednesday, while I was bicycling around Alpine, I noticed a westbound UP stack train go right through town without stopping. What's this I thought? I had never seen it during 37 years of going to Alpine two or three times a year to bicycle.
So, my conductor buddy - anyone who works for a railroad is my buddy although they probably don’t even remember me - told me that the UP is so congested that the Del Rio crews, as well as the El Paso crews, cannot get to Alpine before 12 hours expires. So, they have to change crews in Sanderson or Marfa. This means that RailCrew Express has to drive a westbound crew to Sanderson or beyond or an eastbound crew to Marfa or beyond so that they can take over the operation of their assigned train. I wonder if this then cascades all the way up and down the line?
A RailCrew driver told me that they have two vans in Alpine and four drivers. The drivers are from out-of-town, and they are staying in local motels. And not the bottom of the scale places either. If this is true at other locations, like Del Rio, El Paso, etc., it could be a significant blip in operating expenses.
PJS1As I mentioned in my original post, Alpine is a crew change point for the UP. On Wednesday, while I was bicycling around Alpine, I noticed a westbound UP stack train go right through town without stopping. What's this I thought? I had never seen it during 37 years of going to Alpine two or three times a year to bicycle. So, my conductor buddy - anyone who works for a railroad is my buddy although they probably don’t even remember me - told me that the UP is so congested that the Del Rio crews, as well as the El Paso crews, cannot get to Alpine before 12 hours expires. So, they have to change crews in Sanderson or Marfa. This means that RailCrew Express has to drive a westbound crew to Sanderson or beyond or an eastbound crew to Marfa or beyond so that they can take over the operation of their assigned train. I wonder if this then cascades all the way up and down the line? A RailCrew driver told me that they have two vans in Alpine and four drivers. The drivers are from out-of-town, and they are staying in local motels. And not the bottom of the scale places either. If this is true at other locations, like Del Rio, El Paso, etc., it could be a significant blip in operating expenses.
Am I to understand the Alpine is a single track location? If so, single track crew change locations can generate their own congestion, especially if crew availabiliy is tight. Would I be correct in presuming that if Alpine is a single track location, then there most likely is a passing siding at Alpine. With tight crew availability - in both directions it doesn't take much to put that entire section of railroad in virtural gridlock.
Train 1E arrives Alpine and there is no crew for it, train 2E cannot be brought to Alpine if it changes crews there. Train 1W if it changes crews at Alpine cannot be operated to Alpine unless it is KNOWN that there is a crew available for it - if not it must be held East of Alpine until it is known that there is a crew - OTHERWISE Alpine is now blocked with trains on the Main and in the Siding that don't have crews. Are there runs that are designed to run through Alpine - if there are any, then Alpine cannot have both Main and Siding blocked under ANY circumstance. Once this dance begins it doesn't take long to bring the entire railroad to a standstill from the crew change point East of Alpine to the crew change point West of Alpine.
Question - are the crews at Alpine qualified on both territories East and West of Alpine - if so a single Recrew would be able to take a outlawed train from East of Alpine to the crew change point West of Alpine. If crews ARE NOT qualified on both sides of Alpine then it will take TWO crews, one to bring the train from its HOS location East of Alpine to Alpine, then another crew to take it from Alpine to the crew change point West of Alpine. Even if only one crew is used to operate through Alpine, under most T&E contracts it will be paid TWO days or more pay for their efforts. (If the mileage on the East of Alpine Run pays 1.75 days and the mileage on the West of Alpine run pays 1.50 days - a crew getting a train East of Alpine and operating it to the Western crew change location [or anywhere West of Alpine] will get paid 3.25 days for their efforts.)
Even if Alpine is on double track - it still can not be locked down by having dead trains on the available tracks.
From the UP perspective RailCrew is just the cost of doing business. RailCrew gets paid on the mileage of the runs they perform. If there is lodging required for RailCrew drivers - RailCrew is on the hook for those expenses, not UP.
BaltACD Am I to understand the Alpine is a single track location? Would I be correct in presuming that if Alpine is a single track location, then there most likely is a passing siding at Alpine. Are there runs that are designed to run through Alpine? Are the crews at Alpine qualified on both territories East and West of Alpine?
Am I to understand the Alpine is a single track location?
Would I be correct in presuming that if Alpine is a single track location, then there most likely is a passing siding at Alpine.
Are there runs that are designed to run through Alpine?
Are the crews at Alpine qualified on both territories East and West of Alpine?
Most of the UP from San Antonio to El Paso is a single track railroad with numerous sidings. There is a siding just west of Alpine and one about two or three miles to the east. A stack train was tied down on the west siding while I was there.
This is the first time that I have seen any train run through Alpine without stopping at the usual crew change locations. The westbound crews change just east of the Alpine Amtrak station; the eastbound crews change at the station.
I have been traveling to Alpine for cycling and other stuff for 37 years. I have talked to quite a few of the Amtrak and UP crews over the years. None of them live in Alpine; the Amtrak crews live in San Antonio or El Paso; the UP crews live in Del Rio or El Paso. As far as I know the Del Rio crews are not qualified west of Alpine and the El Paso crews are not qualified east of Alpine. But it may have changed recently.
It may be that the El Paso crews are qualified for a set distance to the east of Alpine and the Del Rio crews from a set distance to the west of Alpine. If this is true it would mean that they are qualified for just a portion of the territory beyond their main territory. Is this possible?
As an aside, if you have never been to the Big Bend - Alpine and Marfa are northern anchors - area of Texas, I recommend putting it on your bucket list. I have lived in seven states of the U.S., Australia, Canada, and Japan. I have traveled widely in each country, and I seen many of their natural wonders. But nothing inspires me more than than the area around Alpine.
The conductor is the boss of the train, even though the engineer usually gets paid more.
In addition to duties already mentioned, most of the major carriers require the conductor to keep a trip report, names of which vary between railroads. The report usually requires signals encountered, defect detector responses, delays, etc. The conductor also copies mandatory directives (radio speed restrictions, track warrants, other instructions etc) while the train is moving.
If a train is hit by a detector or someone reports a possible defect, it's the conductor who checks it out. If possible correcting it or determining if it's safe to move a set out point. If a train goes into emergency and the air can't be recovered, the conductor walks back to find out why and try to repair the cause. (For us, if a train goes into emergency and the air can be immediately recovered a walking inspection isn't required if certain conditions are met. If they aren't met, the conductor is also the one who walks.)
If a trailing unit acts up or shuts down, the conductor (depending on experience) will often go back and see if they can get it running. Or at least find out what the problem is.
While I've never regretted going into engine service, I know many who have. The engineer also has a lot of responsibility. Especially now with trains reaching 15K+ lengths. For those hired after 1985, one can pass up engine service as long as there are junior (seniority wise) people willing to go. The risk is they possibly could eventually be forced. If they do get forced at some point, they may have lost a lot of seniority on the engineer's side.
Jeff
About four and a half years ago, I had an interesting experience just east of Alpine. I was on #1, and we came to a stop just east of the east switch--and then proceeded to hold the main. We could not, however, continue to the west end, for an eastbound freight was holding the main--and our conductor had to continually tell our engineer that we were not clear of the fouling point, Apparently the freight backed up enough to give us room, for soon after we had cleared the switch another eastbound with auto racks came along on the pass track. Once he had cleared. we backed until we could run around the freight that was holding the main. Before we were clear of the switch, our assistant conductor had to flag the crossing of a dirt road.
I did not look to see what was west of Alpine, so I was unaware of that pass track.
Johnny
It doesn't always happen and hold the hope you get called w/a good engr--that is who knows his job and is enjoyable to work with. One of the worst work conditions is making along trip w/an engr who is not social, does not talk and sets a bad tone for what lies ahead. On the other hand, if your engr is one who likes to talk, that in itself makes the trip better and perhaps feel like it is going faster. Politics, weather, sports, eating, family matters and work are things discussed in the course of a trip. I have had trips that for 12 hours I felt like I was by myself. That is draining.
jeffhergertFor those hired after 1985, one can pass up engine service as long as there are junior (seniority wise) people willing to go. The risk is they possibly could eventually be forced. If they do get forced at some point, they may have lost a lot of seniority on the engineer's side. Jeff
Our railroad doesn't work like that. Everyone goes to engineer school in seniority order. Now once you are an engineer, you have the option to flowback every 6 months - that is work as a conductor (as long as there are enough junior engineers to fill all vacant spots).
They are two spearate jobs, despite how much the carriers want to intermingle them. Some guys like conducting, and some like running. It's as simple as that.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann jeffhergert For those hired after 1985, one can pass up engine service as long as there are junior (seniority wise) people willing to go. The risk is they possibly could eventually be forced. If they do get forced at some point, they may have lost a lot of seniority on the engineer's side. Jeff Our railroad doesn't work like that. Everyone goes to engineer school in seniority order. Now once you are an engineer, you have the option to flowback every 6 months - that is work as a conductor (as long as there are enough junior engineers to fill all vacant spots). They are two spearate jobs, despite how much the carriers want to intermingle them. Some guys like conducting, and some like running. It's as simple as that.
jeffhergert For those hired after 1985, one can pass up engine service as long as there are junior (seniority wise) people willing to go. The risk is they possibly could eventually be forced. If they do get forced at some point, they may have lost a lot of seniority on the engineer's side. Jeff
For us, once set up as an engineer, you work as an engineer. Even if it means chasing your seniority. Which is one reason some on the bubble (bouncing back and forth between working as a conductor and engineer) regret going into engine service. One day they are working as a conductor, some with good trainmen's seniority that allow them to hold the long pool, riding stack trains with little chance of doing any work on the ground. The next day they're set up as the youngest engineer and required to fill the only job their engineer's seniority holds. Which is usually at a location far from home, because nobody wants the job. Some of the "luckier" ones have bounced between terminals, usually 100 -200 miles apart on the district. They arrive, mark up on the board, and then get bumped before making a trip. Then go to the next point their seniority holds to just have it happen again.
They used to allow people at their home terminal to set themselves back to conductor instead of chasing seniority when they could no longer hold an engineer's job there. At least as long as there were junior engineers elsewhere willing to work engineer's jobs at other locations on the district. Some unhappy conductor, bumped off a good job because of that, complained. A search of working agreements found the practice wasn't in the contracts, so engineers now have to chase before flowing back.
I was lucky. I've always been able to hold my home (where I hired out at) terminal as an engineer.
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