charlie hebdoSome statistics are more telling for short-term, some for longer. For railroads, the OR has always been considered a good indication of efficiency, except when it contradicts the narrative some folks want to push.
You are right about the OR being an efficiency indicator, but nothing more. And I think most here see it that way. OR is not the only indicator for the success of a railroad. You can generate more profit with a higher OR.
EHH had lower OR and higher profit at CP because of cost cutting and higher rates but not higher transport volume. I think this is quite short sighted and not sustainable.Regards, Volker
tree68 charlie hebdo Look at GE. They are selling several lines, yet nobody is suggesting it is part of some vulture capitalism scheme. It's not the sale itself. As you note, companies have been selling off assets for years. The question would be where are the monies from those sales going? If they are mostly being plowed back into the company, I'm sure few would find fault with the practice. If, on the other hand, those monies are being sent directly to the bottom line, as profits that investors can draw from, one might tend to question the motives involved. I suspect that many here believe the latter is the case.
charlie hebdo Look at GE. They are selling several lines, yet nobody is suggesting it is part of some vulture capitalism scheme.
It's not the sale itself. As you note, companies have been selling off assets for years.
The question would be where are the monies from those sales going? If they are mostly being plowed back into the company, I'm sure few would find fault with the practice.
If, on the other hand, those monies are being sent directly to the bottom line, as profits that investors can draw from, one might tend to question the motives involved.
I suspect that many here believe the latter is the case.
You posed a qusestion about whether the money from sales of assets is being plowed back into the company or going directly into the pockets of investors. And then you seem to suggest that the answer is the latter based of your suspicion that many here believe it is the latter.
Why not find the truthful answer to the question rather than following what you suspect many here believe?
VOLKER LANDWEHRYou are right about the OR being an efficiency indicator, but nothing more. And I think most here see it that way. OR is not the only indicator for the success of a railroad. You can generate more profit with a higher OR.
It's not that OR isn't a viable metric - but some management becomes so damned fixated on it that they ignore other metrics. Train velocity, terminal dwell, plan adherance, etc. And to acheive this OR they cut, cut and cut. Then when traffic gets a boost, they are caught with their pants around their ankles as they struggle to find people and locomotives.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
EuclidWhy not find the truthful answer to the question rather than following what you suspect many here believe?
Sorry, I don't work in accounting at CSX.
As has been noted (sarcastically, at times), the financial reports issued by CSX say what they want them to say.
If you expect CSX management to admit they're out to plunder the company, you've got a surprise coming.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Euclid Why not find the truthful answer to the question rather than following what you suspect many here believe? Sorry, I don't work in accounting at CSX. As has been noted (sarcastically, at times), the financial reports issued by CSX say what they want them to say. If you expect CSX management to admit they're out to plunder the company, you've got a surprise coming.
Euclid Why not find the truthful answer to the question rather than following what you suspect many here believe?
So how do you arrive at the answer without working in accounting at CSX?
Where has CSX invested in capital?
Euclid tree68 Euclid Why not find the truthful answer to the question rather than following what you suspect many here believe? Sorry, I don't work in accounting at CSX. As has been noted (sarcastically, at times), the financial reports issued by CSX say what they want them to say. If you expect CSX management to admit they're out to plunder the company, you've got a surprise coming. If you don't have the answer because you don't work in accouting at CSX, why do you believe that the money from selling assets is being used for the short term enrichment of investors rather than for investing in new capital for the long term benefit of the company? That sounds like you do have the answer. So how do you arrive at the answer without working in accounting at CSX?
If you don't have the answer because you don't work in accouting at CSX, why do you believe that the money from selling assets is being used for the short term enrichment of investors rather than for investing in new capital for the long term benefit of the company? That sounds like you do have the answer.
For the anti-EHH no matter what crowd, it's an article of faith. In the alternate fact world, audited accounts don't matter because the books are all cooked. Statistics are all lies. Science is junk. Reporting is fake news.
charlie hebdoFor the anti-EHH no matter what crowd, it's an article of faith. In the alternate fact world, audited accounts don't matter because the books are all cooked. Statistics are all lies. Science is junk. Reporting is fake news.
It's an article of faith because of vulture capitalists like Mantle Ridge, who have been shown to be interested only in milking what they can from a business. This isn't limited to the railroad world. I still maintain that EHH was mainly a figurehead - someone else was calling the shots.
Books don't necessarily have to be cooked, but sometimes you have to be able (and willing) to read between the lines. The numbers may all add up, but is it always logical that they add up the way they do?
As Zug asks - where is CSX investing in capital projects? Or other projects that will build business? They've certainly driven enough business away.
As I've noted before - for some odd reason, CSX is reinstating trains that were cut in the big sweep. North Baltimore was going to close, but now it isn't.
Hey - maybe EHH's supporters will have the last laugh, but for now, I'm not so sure that's going to be the case.
zugmann Where has CSX invested in capital?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Paul_D_North_Jror that there are shades of gray, nuance, and multiple - sometimes conflicting - goals. - PDN.
Just hope that there are not fifty shades.,..Oh never mind.
My feeling is that Mantle Ridge is a vulture capitalist organization. They brought on EHH to prune everything back to the bone so that the stock prices would climb and they could sell their stock after draining the coffers through dividends and such. The worry is whether they cut too much and that there won’t be a viable company when they are done squeezing the money out. I’d worry that they are deferring maintenance and cutting back on safety. You seem to see it differently. How do you see this whole thing going down, past, present and future?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding charlie hebdo For the anti-EHH no matter what crowd, it's an article of faith. In the alternate fact world, audited accounts don't matter because the books are all cooked. Statistics are all lies. Science is junk. Reporting is fake news. My feeling is that Mantle Ridge is a vulture capitalist organization. They brought on EHH to prune everything back to the bone so that the stock prices would climb and they could sell their stock after draining the coffers through dividends and such. The worry is whether they cut too much and that there won’t be a viable company when they are done squeezing the money out. I’d worry that they are deferring maintenance and cutting back on safety. You seem to see it differently. How do you see this whole thing going down, past, present and future?
charlie hebdo For the anti-EHH no matter what crowd, it's an article of faith. In the alternate fact world, audited accounts don't matter because the books are all cooked. Statistics are all lies. Science is junk. Reporting is fake news.
He is looking at divedends to the stock holders NOW - the company be damed.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In other words, mulct now and run--and express Mr. Vanderbilt's concern for the public?
Johnny
BaltACD Murphy Siding charlie hebdo For the anti-EHH no matter what crowd, it's an article of faith. In the alternate fact world, audited accounts don't matter because the books are all cooked. Statistics are all lies. Science is junk. Reporting is fake news. My feeling is that Mantle Ridge is a vulture capitalist organization. They brought on EHH to prune everything back to the bone so that the stock prices would climb and they could sell their stock after draining the coffers through dividends and such. The worry is whether they cut too much and that there won’t be a viable company when they are done squeezing the money out. I’d worry that they are deferring maintenance and cutting back on safety. You seem to see it differently. How do you see this whole thing going down, past, present and future? He is looking at divedends to the stock holders NOW - the company be damed.
Murphy: I prefer to use facts, rather than speculate. Yes, the transition was rocky, but so were those when other rails merged (another major transition). So far the speculation that the company would be drained of its saleable assets is not happening, at least so far (see post by our resident accountancy expert, PJS1). The efficiency has improved. But time and the financial statements will tell the tale. CSX's condition in five years will be what really matters.
I had no great liking for EHH, especially some of his actions at IC. But he was a seasoned railroader, not some vulture capitalist (such as the current governor of Illinois). His methods were controversial but he got positive results. Whenever someone comes into a rather static organization from outside and shakes things up, it creates a lot of resentment. Sometimes folks inside can't see the forest for the tress, especially if there is a lot of deadwood. Changing the narrative to blaming Mantle Ridge Capital now that EHH is gone seems desperate, but time will tell about that as well.
Balt: Your speculation is groundless. I have never owned CSX stock and likely never will. I am simply an observer. Whenever something or somebody generates as much sustained anger and a paucity of facts as CSX has, it usually means there is a hidden agenda.
charlie hebdoThe efficiency has improved. But time and the financial statements will tell the tale. CSX's condition in five years will be what really matters.
The problem I have is when other companies blindly copy his methods without knowing how they will end up.
zugmann charlie hebdo The efficiency has improved. But time and the financial statements will tell the tale. CSX's condition in five years will be what really matters. The problem I have is when other companies blindly copy his methods without knowing how they will end up.
charlie hebdo The efficiency has improved. But time and the financial statements will tell the tale. CSX's condition in five years will be what really matters.
There is some truth in that. One can only look at his record, all with rather conservative railroads and use that as a guide.
Murphy Siding My feeling is that Mantle Ridge is a vulture capitalist organization. They brought on EHH to prune everything back to the bone so that the stock prices would climb and they could sell their stock after draining the coffers through dividends and such.
As long as you can sell your snake oil to others and get their support, you don't have to have majority control. Mantle Ridge isn't the only player out there to only care about short term gain and not about long term consequences. I dare say most businesses in the US, and increasingly around the world, operate this way. It's what the groups that hold the largest amounts of stock want. The largest and quickest return possible.
Jeff
jeffhergert As long as you can sell your snake oil to others and get their support, you don't have to have majority control. Mantle Ridge isn't the only player out there to only care about short term gain and not about long term consequences. I dare say most businesses in the US, and increasingly around the world, operate this way. It's what the groups that hold the largest amounts of stock want. The largest and quickest return possible. Jeff
As long as we have some form of capitalism, even for infrastructure, that is what you often get, though the evidence so far does not suport the shift to attacking the vulture capitalists since EHH shuffled off this mortal coil (or did he shuffle off to Buffalo?).
charlie hebdo jeffhergert As long as you can sell your snake oil to others and get their support, you don't have to have majority control. Mantle Ridge isn't the only player out there to only care about short term gain and not about long term consequences. I dare say most businesses in the US, and increasingly around the world, operate this way. It's what the groups that hold the largest amounts of stock want. The largest and quickest return possible. Jeff As long as we have some form of capitalism, even for infrastructure, that is what you often get, though the evidence so far does not suport the shift to attacking the vulture capitalists since EHH shuffled off this mortal coil (or did he shuffle off to Buffalo?).
Didn't EHH close Buffalo?
BaltACDDidn't EHH close Buffalo?
I think Frontier got closed/reduced before EHH stuck his fingers in the pie...
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.