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Train Carrying Members of Congress Hits Truck

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Posted by ruderunner on Saturday, February 3, 2018 6:36 AM

Overmod

 

 
SAMUEL C WALKER
Any person(s) bent upon chaos apparently could create chaos at will at many points along the right of way for the trip to White Sulphur Springs. Was there surveillance of the right of way? Were grade crossings supervised by local local law enforcement?

 

A particularly alarming thing to me is the type of vehicle involved, which can easily be converted into a substantial IED by loading premade devices resembling 'garbage' items without much suspicion; this might be done unwittingly by a legitimate crew on a particular day, and the vehicle then hijacked close in space and time to the target crossing and detonated remotely.  It might be interesting to consider the blast radius of a substantial amount of boosted ANFO surrounded by general metallic junk in one of these reinforced truck bodies.

The fact of the collision speaks adequately to any professionalism in surveillance or law-enforcement supervision.  Compare what was done on special 'express' runs back around the turn of the 20th Century, with appropriate personnel watching each switch or crossing for potential intrusion.  It would be unfair to use only 'local' law enforcement for this purpose; you wouldn't do this with the number of separate police cruisers and teams corresponding to all the road crossings, but you'd want some sort of personnel, perhaps Secret Service people or FBI agents, with radios and cameras at every one close to and during train time.

And yes, I would arm them, and yes, with fairly substantial weapons capability, but concealed from the public.

 

 

If anyone is interested in what Overmod is taking about, Google Myth busters cement truck...

Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, February 3, 2018 7:51 AM

tree68
One source said a congressman was doing CPR on the conductor.  I'm presuming they meant engineer, but the only fatality reported was in the truck.

There have been reports that I know of that any of the train crew members were seriously injured.

Local news reported that there were a number of congressmen on board that were doctors and tried to save the life of the garbage worker on the truck. There were also people that lived in the area that came to help, one even taking off some of his clothing to keep injured warm.

Later newspaper reports have mentioned neighbors saying that the gates had malfunctioned the day before the accident. One lady stated that no one knew who to call about the malfunction. 

I can't speak for the Buckingham Branch RR that leases this track from CSX, but, I do know that on the NS there is a placard mounted on the crossing gate pole that has an 800 phone number to call if there are any problems with the gate or a vehicle gets stuck on the track. My big bone of contention is that this fact is not known the the general public. The RR's don't advertise it and the news media have no idea it's there, even though I have reported it to a local news channel several years ago. A public service announcment needs to be made addressing this issue.

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Posted by RailEagle on Saturday, February 3, 2018 7:53 AM

Do you think AMTK No. 4 and 145 will be scrapped?

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, February 3, 2018 8:14 AM

BigJim
I can't speak for the Buckingham Branch RR that leases this track from CSX, but, I do know that on the NS there is a placard mounted on the crossing gate pole that has an 800 phone number to call if there are any problems with the gate or a vehicle gets stuck on the track.

I believe that was a mandate.  We even have them on some of our trail crossings - no vehicles at all.  And, I believe they all have to be blue, with the same format.

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Posted by ccltrains on Saturday, February 3, 2018 8:40 AM

Thinking back in history I had a personal encounter with a VIP train.  I was working at Point Concieption California and was driving to a general store to get lunch.  Had to cross the Southern Pacific coast line and when approaching the crossing I had to stop for a Fairmont Speeder.  It was loaded with people who were inspecting the track in great detail.  After picking up my lunch I was stopped at the rail crossing for a passenger train.  On the open end vestible of the last car was Nikita Kruschev.  We waved to each other.

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, February 3, 2018 8:41 AM

tree68
And, I believe they all have to be blue, with the same format.

You can see the placard at the 1:07 mark in the video contained in this: https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/investigators-reveal-more-details-in-deadly-gop-train-crash

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, February 3, 2018 9:47 AM

I doubt that the general public is very likely to take on the responsibility of calling about a malfunction of the signals based on that tiny sign.  They would probably just call the police.  I wonder if the reported malfunction in this case was a false activation or a failure to activate.  Prolonged false activation can get people used to the idea that they may go around the lowered gates if no train is approaching. 

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, February 3, 2018 9:57 AM

Euclid
I doubt that the general public is very likely to take on the responsibility of calling...

You would be surprised at how many people did while I was working!

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:03 AM

BigJim
You would be surprised at how many people did while I was working!

Usually when a train is working an industry next to a crossing.  Oh well, better safe than sorry.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by mudchicken on Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:49 AM

tree68
 
BigJim
I can't speak for the Buckingham Branch RR that leases this track from CSX, but, I do know that on the NS there is a placard mounted on the crossing gate pole that has an 800 phone number to call if there are any problems with the gate or a vehicle gets stuck on the track.

 

I believe that was a mandate.  We even have them on some of our trail crossings - no vehicles at all.  And, I believe they all have to be blue, with the same format.

 

It is a mandate, all ENS signs were to be placed by March of last year. The railroads put up the plates (accomplished) and the state DOT's were supposed to update the forms with the new fields to be filled out(FAIL). Every crossing was supposed to have a plate, many still do not (Big fail with privately owned track that has neither the plate or a DOT# - The state DOT's were supposed to clean this up. All they have done is screw-up the existing system.

The "gates not working" is a common cop-out after an incident. Generally proven to be a false statement after investigation and the newsworkers rarely follow up with this, they've already moved on.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by erikem on Saturday, February 3, 2018 11:31 AM

ruderunner

 

Overmod

 

A particularly alarming thing to me is the type of vehicle involved, which can easily be converted into a substantial IED by loading premade devices resembling 'garbage' items without much suspicion; this might be done unwittingly by a legitimate crew on a particular day, and the vehicle then hijacked close in space and time to the target crossing and detonated remotely.  It might be interesting to consider the blast radius of a substantial amount of boosted ANFO surrounded by general metallic junk in one of these reinforced truck bodies.

 

If anyone is interested in what Overmod is taking about, Google Myth busters cement truck...

 

It was the highlight of the penultimate episode of the series (the very last one was a restropective with the cast members). The video was done with a very high speed camera and the expanding spherical shock wave was clearly visible. I wouldn't want to be closer than a half mile from that blast unless it was in a properly designed bunker.

One of the more interesting secure movements I observed was when driving down I-15 a while back. Came across a Suburban with a lot of antennas mounted on it (several HF), then a very plain white truck a half mile in front and another Suburban festooned with antennas. Presumably the truck was on its way to one of the Navy bases in San Diego.

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, February 3, 2018 11:40 AM

zugmann
Usually when a train is working an industry next to a crossing.  Oh well, better safe than sorry.

Here is what I found MOST surprising!
As I said, the day before the accident, people said that the crossing gates were malfunctioning. It was reported in the paper that being blocked by the gates in the down position, there were four motorists blocked by the down gates. THREE motorists turned around and went a different way. The Fourth motorist waited a bit and the gates went up. They then proceeded across the crossing and the gates went back down again.
None of the motorists went AROUND the gate!

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Posted by NP Eddie on Saturday, February 3, 2018 12:26 PM

ALL:

The reference to the emergency notification signs is 49CFR Subpart "E"Section 234.301 and 303 (correct me if I am wrong). Many people, including myself, see the same things each day and thus become oblivious to their surroundings. In listing to Anoka County, MN Central Communications police calls, many people just call 911 to report a crossing issue. I would call 1 800 832 5452 (BNSF) or the Minnesota Commercial telephone number for crossing malfunctions. As indicated on a prior post, the Emergency Notification Sign is on the crossbuck.

Ed Burns

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, February 3, 2018 1:14 PM

NP Eddie
ALL:

The reference to the emergency notification signs is 49CFR Subpart "E"Section 234.301 and 303 (correct me if I am wrong). Many people, including myself, see the same things each day and thus become oblivious to their surroundings. In listing to Anoka County, MN Central Communications police calls, many people just call 911 to report a crossing issue. I would call 1 800 832 5452 (BNSF) or the Minnesota Commercial telephone number for crossing malfunctions. As indicated on a prior post, the Emergency Notification Sign is on the crossbuck.

Ed Burns

Local 911 Centers all have the appropriate railroad's Emergency number that is listed on the DOT ID# plates - and they do know how to contact the railroads.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, February 3, 2018 4:19 PM

mudchicken
. . . The "gates not working" is a common cop-out after an incident. Generally proven to be a false statement after investigation and the newsworkers rarely follow up with this, they've already moved on.

It'll be real interesting to see what the front video camera from the Amtrak locomotive shows actually happened . . . Whistling  Or, the download of the 'operation log' (can't remember what it's technical name is right now) from the crossing signal control box.  Either one should show the status of the gates just before the crash.  

- PDN. 

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Posted by switch7frg on Saturday, February 3, 2018 4:38 PM

There is a difference  there, (ie)cement is just powder. To get concrete add sand ,gravel and water. is put in a "mixer truck"== hence a ready mix truck. That garbage truck almost looks like a mixer truck.

Y6bs evergreen in my mind

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, February 3, 2018 5:07 PM

switch7frg
To get concrete add sand ,gravel and water. [and] put in a "mixer truck"== hence a ready mix truck.

Yeah, but if you want to be that pedantic, a 'cement mixer' mixes the cement with the water and aggregate -- what comes out of it hardens into concrete...

... and a ready-mix truck doesn't combine the ingredients; that's done under process control in the plant that filled the truck.  All the rotating drum does is keep the concrete from segregating while it is in transport and before it starts to chemically set.  Hence the name: the 'mix' is 'ready to pour' as dispensed from the turning drum into chutes or Schwing pumps or whatever.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:59 PM

Here in Pennsylvania, for PennDOT projects, after arrival but before discharge the barrel of the truck is required to turn 30 revolutions at a rate of from 6 to 10 rpm to ensure thorough mixing.  While in transit a rate of around 3 rpm is typical.  The concrete mix must be discharged before a total of 300 revs have occurred. 

- PDN. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:23 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
Here in Pennsylvania, for PennDOT projects, after arrival but before discharge the barrel of the truck is required to turn 30 revolutions at a rate of from 6 to 10 rpm to ensure thorough mixing.  While in transit a rate of around 3 rpm is typical.  The concrete mix must be discharged before a total of 300 revs have occurred. 

- PDN. 

Is that 300 revs from the time of loading or 300 revs from the time of arrival at the discharge site?  From my observations of some of the Penn Dot projects I am surprised they can count to 300.

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, February 5, 2018 1:49 AM

ccltrains

Thinking back in history I had a personal encounter with a VIP train.  I was working at Point Concieption California and was driving to a general store to get lunch.  Had to cross the Southern Pacific coast line and when approaching the crossing I had to stop for a Fairmont Speeder.  It was loaded with people who were inspecting the track in great detail.  After picking up my lunch I was stopped at the rail crossing for a passenger train.  On the open end vestible of the last car was Nikita Kruschev.  We waved to each other.

Khrushchev on SP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZ4fMlFU5g&t=22m10s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNE2JXL3-nY&t=28m9s

and earlier on PRR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZ4fMlFU5g&t=13m51s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNE2JXL3-nY&t=14m25s

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, February 5, 2018 8:39 PM

300 revs from the time of loading.  

FOrtunately, there's a mechanical counter on the truck - which sometimes malfunctions, or the driver forgets to reset it after the previous load, or resets it while in transit after leaving the plant (you can't fix stupid . . . ).  After a few loads have arrived with correct counters, you can usually figure out about how many revs have occurred on averatge by the time the truck gets to the job site, and then go from there.  I've never had one of those ever get anywhere close to 300 - as I recall, 220 or so was the highest count of estimated revs while in transit plus actual revs while at the site.

- PDN.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:03 PM

NTSB review of cab video shows truck entered crossing with gates down.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/truck-tracks-despite-gates-struck-amtrak-train-u-180358965.html

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:41 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Paul_D_North_Jr
Here in Pennsylvania, for PennDOT projects, after arrival but before discharge the barrel of the truck is required to turn 30 revolutions at a rate of from 6 to 10 rpm to ensure thorough mixing.  While in transit a rate of around 3 rpm is typical.  The concrete mix must be discharged before a total of 300 revs have occurred. 

- PDN. 

 

Is that 300 revs from the time of loading or 300 revs from the time of arrival at the discharge site?  From my observations of some of the Penn Dot projects I am surprised they can count to 300.

 

Similarly, here in Kansas, KDOT inspectors will generally, note the rev counters on the transit mixers waiting  to discharge. Over 300 will get one sent off-site.  Pours of specialized concrete mixes[ those with chemicals added or ice are partricularly sensitive] will also have their inspectors watching revs on mixers.

 

 


 

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:21 PM

What usually causes rejection here is usually not the revs (too many or too few = gap grading or separation), it's how many extra gallons of water are shot to the mix at delivery (and the resulting headches from that with slump, spalling and fines that the finisher wants to cheat with or fool the pump truck with.) 

 Latest bets here have to do with a wrong-way head-on crash on the Interstate freeway nearly just outside my window resulting in a fatality. Was it: (1) Wacky Weed (with extra credit if it was a DPS or APS student) or was it (2) somebody that was too old to drive (extra credit if the DMV screening failed)or was it (3) an i-zombie with outdated GPS dataQuestion

5 lane freeway was a parking lot for hours.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, February 22, 2018 6:49 AM

I will go with Door #3.  The GPS screen is quite a distraction in its own right and people will trust it implicitly rather than actually SEE where they are.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Thursday, February 22, 2018 1:30 PM

    

CSSHEGEWISCH
The GPS screen is quite a distraction in its own right and people will trust it implicitly rather than actually SEE where they are.

   Just another step toward driverless cars.   People are turning into robots.   Sometime ago we had a discussion about driverless cars and trucks, and I argued against them.   Now I'm beginning to think they could only be an improvement.

   And I second your answer to MC's question.

_____________ 

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, February 22, 2018 1:47 PM

A loooong time ago there was an editorial in a newspaper where the editor praised the new-fangled "Automobile" because once they were in general use there would be no more drunken cowboys riding their horses up and down the street injuring people.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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