EuclidNorm, The last time I checked reality, it was still there. My understanding is that Harding failed to set enough handbrakes to hold train without the aid of air brakes. That is a violation of Rule 112. He also performed a handbrake effectiveness test with the independent brake set. That too is a violation of Rule 112. If Harding was following practice that had worked before, that does not mean that he did not violate Rule 112.
Think what you wish but my point was that Harding did not violate any laws that would hold him liable. He has to live with the consequencesces of his actions or inactions for the rest of his life.
Perhaps he did not follow MMA's rules to the letter but it is appearent he did what others before him had done safely without the local fire department shutting down the engine.
Please stop changing other poster's words to fit your agenda.
Norm
did not city fathers or someone take note years ago that a hill outside of town, with a full size train sitting on it, might be a problem sometime? Where is their involvement in this?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Norm48327 Euclid Norm, The last time I checked reality, it was still there. My understanding is that Harding failed to set enough handbrakes to hold train without the aid of air brakes. That is a violation of Rule 112. He also performed a handbrake effectiveness test with the independent brake set. That too is a violation of Rule 112. If Harding was following practice that had worked before, that does not mean that he did not violate Rule 112. Think what you wish but my point was that Harding did not violate any laws that would hold him liable. He has to live with the consequencesces of his actions or inactions for the rest of his life. Perhaps he did not follow MMA's rules to the letter but it is appearent he did what others before him had done safely without the local fire department shutting down the engine. Please stop changing other poster's words to fit your agenda.
Euclid Norm, The last time I checked reality, it was still there. My understanding is that Harding failed to set enough handbrakes to hold train without the aid of air brakes. That is a violation of Rule 112. He also performed a handbrake effectiveness test with the independent brake set. That too is a violation of Rule 112. If Harding was following practice that had worked before, that does not mean that he did not violate Rule 112.
Yes you were talking at one point about whether Harding broke any laws. I said that there is no question that he broke the securment rules, and you took issue with that by saying that Harding was following the practices that others had used before.
But those practices also were against the rules. Practices that are against the rules may be successful at times, but that does not mean they are okay and not against the rules.
Mookie did not city fathers or someone take note years ago that a hill outside of town, with a full size train sitting on it, might be a problem sometime? Where is their involvement in this?
Yes, when CP ran that line train crews were changed at the bottom of the grade, at the train station in town. I don't know when or why that changed.. but leaving a train unattended at the top of a grade somehow doesn't seem like a great idea.. It would be like leaving an oil tanker truck parked at the top of a hill in the middle of town.. I would call that stupid.
Ulrich Mookie did not city fathers or someone take note years ago that a hill outside of town, with a full size train sitting on it, might be a problem sometime? Where is their involvement in this? Yes, when CP ran that line train crews were changed at the bottom of the grade, at the train station in town. I don't know when or why that changed.. but leaving a train unattended at the top of a grade somehow doesn't seem like a great idea.. It would be like leaving an oil tanker truck parked at the top of a hill in the middle of town.. I would call that stupid.
Besides the runaway potential of parking the train atop a hill, there was the near certainty that any runaway train had enough distance to attain 50-80 mph by the time it reached Lac Megantic. And then it would be sure to derail on the curve entering the town. This would scatter the derailment right through the heart of the town.
Am I missing something? Like, the obvious. Or common sense. Well before the incident?
Ulriches, when CP ran that line train crews were changed at the bottom of the grade,
I would submit that this was a brief event, long enough to get one crew off the train and the next crew on. Far different from parking the train overnight. IIRC, there really wasn't a spot closer to town suitable for parking the train without blocking crossings.
While there seem to be slight differences in the details, I think that everyone is saying about the same thing - the train was inadequately secured, possibly in violation of existing rules, and that it appears that it was a widespread practice.
How things got to that point is something we will probably never know. Certainly no one is going to step forward with that information.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Perhaps there had never been even a suspicion that the train could roll down the hill, so no one questioned the practice that was followed.
Johnny
They would have complained about it idling all night in the middle of town.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I have heard various explanations as to why the train had to tie up at Nantes. What was the reason again why they could not leave the train outside of Lac Megantic on the side of town opposite from Nantes? I don't recall the explanation.
Close to but not across the border for 'the American' to pick up and forward, but not blocking road crossings most of the night.
DeggestyPerhaps there had never been even a suspicion that the train could roll down the hill, so no one questioned the practice that was followed
mvlandswThey would have complained about it idling all night in the middle of town
EuclidWhat was the reason again why they could not leave the train outside of Lac Megantic on the side of town opposite from Nantes?
Looking at the satellite image, I'm guessing that there's no road access.
This article linked below contains this information:
“The company, which filed for bankruptcy in 2013, will be next to defend itself against charges of criminal negligence causing death.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/lac-megantic-mma-former-chairman-edward-burkhardt-reacts-2018-1.4496993
Can anybody provide any information on this?
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