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Head End Cabooses

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Head End Cabooses
Posted by VGN Jess on Wednesday, December 27, 2017 6:35 PM

I thought cabooses (when required for all consists) were always the last car on a freight. But many pictures/videos have shown cabooses in between the last locomotive on the head end and the first freight car. Why was the caboose placed there?

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 27, 2017 8:50 PM

VGN Jess
I thought cabooses (when required for all consists) were always the last car on a freight. But many pictures/videos have shown cabooses in between the last locomotive on the head end and the first freight car. Why was the caboose placed there?

In a number of cases on Local Freights, Road Switcher and Mine Runs - the trains were allocated two cabooses - one on the head end and one on the rear end.  This allowed the crews to work more efficiently in performing their duties - without necessarily having to hike from one end of the train to the other to do certain things.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:50 AM

I remember seeing a picture in "Photo Section" some years back of an SR local freight.  The job was being run on a Sunday and the caption noted that because of the light load (only about 5 cars) the crew placed the caboose right behind the locomotive.

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Posted by BigJim on Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:33 AM

VGN Jess

I thought cabooses (when required for all consists) were always the last car on a freight. But many pictures/videos have shown cabooses in between the last locomotive on the head end and the first freight car. Why was the caboose placed there?


First, one must know and understand that the caboose is not the rear of the train. By the rule book, the "Marker" denotes the rear of the train.
Consequently, the caboose can be placed in the train anywhere the conductor deems necessary.

.

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Thursday, December 28, 2017 12:48 PM

Cabooses are still used today on short locals and for switching moves around the yard, but on mainline service, a FRED always brings up the markers on the last car whether it's an Autorack, Coal, Intermodal, or Mixed Freight. 

I was born in 1993, so I guess I just missed seeing cabooses on mainline freights. The FRED was already in place. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 28, 2017 1:01 PM

ATSFGuy
Cabooses are still used today on short locals and for switching moves around the yard, but on mainline service, a FRED always brings up the markers on the last car whether it's an Autorack, Coal, Intermodal, or Mixed Freight. 

I was born in 1993, so I guess I just missed seeing cabooses on mainline freights. The FRED was already in place. 

Rule books no longer refer to them as cabooses.  Today they are considered 'shoving platforms' to provide a safe place for the Conductor to 'ride the point' of the shove.  Some shoves can be several miles long and have road crossings that have the proper warning sounded.  Even where a shoving platform is the rear car in a train, there must be a EOT or Red Flag to designate the end of the train.

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, December 29, 2017 7:49 PM

I'm pretty sure our rulebook still has references to cabooses (occupied).  We still have some, plus the DOD and some specialty shippers still use them.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, December 30, 2017 9:08 AM

Along with the conversation about CABOOSES; It is of interest to note that during the transition from Cabooses, to No Cabooses; there was a worried attempt to get out in front of where would those of the rear-end crew ride.  

GE put out a limited run (10 or so(?) of its model BQ23-7, to resolve that issue. They were built in the late 1970's, and were scrapped by late 1990's. They were apparently less popular with the crews, than flies at the family picnic(?).

  At one point they were given 'B' unit status(plated-over windows, so they could not be front running units.)  They were the 'orphan units' in that transition from cabooses to no cabooses.  They were only ordered by SBD> then to SCL> then CSX. Linked below a couple of photos from railpictures:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/598760/

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=112220

 

 

 


 

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Posted by DSO17 on Saturday, December 30, 2017 9:41 AM

Back when flagging was required, some local freights ran with two cabooses. One was on the hind end for the flagman, the other right behind the engine for the conductor and, if there was no fireman, the front brakeman. 

As an example of a train with one caboose right behind the engine - up until about 1970 it was common the the local freight on the B&O's Landenburg Branch to run westbound with the caboose right behind the engine and return eastbound with the caboose on the hind end. This practice continued until one day they dragged a derailed car for a couple miles, including across at least two trestles. There was little damage and I don't recall anybody getting in trouble, but an instruction came out that the caboose would be on the hind end both westbound and eastbound from then on.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:16 AM

I saw a Norfolk-Southern freight about two weeks ago heading southwest out of Richmond with a caboose on the end.  A nice surprise for a frustrating day!

I'm certain it was there as a shoving platform, the back door was wide open on a chilly day and there didn't seem to be anyone on board.  From what I know that particular freight does a lot of pick-ups and drop-offs.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, December 30, 2017 9:10 PM

It seems I heard that many ex-caboose shoving platforms had their doors welded shut so they could not be occupied inside.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:37 PM

MidlandMike

It seems I heard that many ex-caboose shoving platforms had their doors welded shut so they could not be occupied inside.

 

To keep non-paying passengers out?Smile

Johnny

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:52 PM

Deggesty
MidlandMike

It seems I heard that many ex-caboose shoving platforms had their doors welded shut so they could not be occupied inside.

To keep non-paying passengers out?Smile

And to keep crew members outside and exposed to the elements.  CN bans yard crews from riding in the cabs of Beltpak units for the same, stupid reason.

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Posted by VGN Jess on Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:00 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I knew the marker denotes the end of consists, but practice seemed to be the cabooses at the rear 95% of the time. I was just wondering about the other 5% i have seen in old videos. Happy New Year all!

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, January 4, 2018 1:19 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
Deggesty
MidlandMike

It seems I heard that many ex-caboose shoving platforms had their doors welded shut so they could not be occupied inside.

To keep non-paying passengers out?Smile

 

 

And to keep crew members outside and exposed to the elements.  CN bans yard crews from riding in the cabs of Beltpak units for the same, stupid reason.

 

I can't speak for Canada, but here in the US if the crew can access the inside they have to maintain them in a habitable condition.  Weld the doors shut and you've just saved on the cost of maintaining them.  Don't have to worry if the heater or toilet works, don't have to worry about cleaning or supplying them.  Not that they would worry too much if they had to do those things.

Jeff 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, January 8, 2018 8:12 PM

jeffhergert

 

 
SD70Dude

 

 
Deggesty
MidlandMike

It seems I heard that many ex-caboose shoving platforms had their doors welded shut so they could not be occupied inside.

To keep non-paying passengers out?Smile

 

 

And to keep crew members outside and exposed to the elements.  CN bans yard crews from riding in the cabs of Beltpak units for the same, stupid reason.

 

 

 

I can't speak for Canada, but here in the US if the crew can access the inside they have to maintain them in a habitable condition.  Weld the doors shut and you've just saved on the cost of maintaining them.  Don't have to worry if the heater or toilet works, don't have to worry about cleaning or supplying them.  Not that they would worry too much if they had to do those things.

Jeff 

 

I would think that the railroads would want to protect the employees from grade crossing collisions, rock-throwers, etc.  Also on a long cold shove, there would be liability for an employee suffering frostbite or other cold weather injury.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:28 AM

MidlandMike
I would think that the railroads would want to protect the employees from grade crossing collisions, rock-throwers, etc.  Also on a long cold shove, there would be liability for an employee suffering frostbite or other cold weather injury.

Brakemen and other railroad 'field' personnel (signal maintainers and construction gangs, MofW employees) routinely spend most of their working days out in the elements - be those elements extreme heat or extreme cold and every condition in between.  They are expected to dress appropriately for the weather conditions they expect to encounter.  If the employees dress for extreme heat and encounter extreme cold and suffer frostbite - that is on the employee.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:30 PM

I once worked with a survey crew, and other jobs that required me to be outside in freezing cold all day, but as you say we dressed the part and kept active.  One really cold day we used 2 pick-up trucks to pre-position one at each end of the survey line.  On the morning trip, 3 people rode in the cab, while 2 rode in the pick-up truck bed.  We found out it is totally different riding in an open vehicle vs just standng in the cold.  On the way back that evening to retrieve the other truck, all 5 of us big guys somehow fit into that single bench seat cab.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 3:30 PM

very interesting, never saw a train with more than one caboose, always at rear. Mom's father was a freight conductor before he became a passenger conductor and he never talked about riding anywhere else than the rear of train. 

 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 3:40 PM

MidlandMike
I would think that the railroads would want to protect the employees from grade crossing collisions, rock-throwers, etc.  Also on a long cold shove, there would be liability for an employee suffering frostbite or other cold weather injury.

Recall that "transfer cabooses" are little more than a shed on a flatcar.  I suspect that as those aged out they were replaced by otherwise retired cabooses.

Either is better than hanging on the ladder on the end of a car...

As for a "marker," it can be a flag or fusee, as long as there is something there that meets the requirements.  Passenger movements must have a lighted marker - we use an EOT with a flashing LED lamp.  All it does is hang there and flash...

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Posted by BLS53 on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 8:59 PM

samfp1943

Along with the conversation about CABOOSES; It is of interest to note that during the transition from Cabooses, to No Cabooses; there was a worried attempt to get out in front of where would those of the rear-end crew ride.  

GE put out a limited run (10 or so(?) of its model BQ23-7, to resolve that issue. They were built in the late 1970's, and were scrapped by late 1990's. They were apparently less popular with the crews, than flies at the family picnic(?).

  At one point they were given 'B' unit status(plated-over windows, so they could not be front running units.)  They were the 'orphan units' in that transition from cabooses to no cabooses.  They were only ordered by SBD> then to SCL> then CSX. Linked below a couple of photos from railpictures:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/598760/

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=112220

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hosh+posh+of+power

Here's one, circa 1990, climbing a grade in Pennsylvania. 6th unit back, among a total of 7.

Resembles a road switcher version of a modern day Amtrak diesel.

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Posted by BLS53 on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:18 PM

There's a situation on the CN's Edgewood Cut-off (Bluford Sub) in far southern Illinois, where there's a coal mine 50 miles north of a barge loading facility on the Ohio River. These trains always have cabooses, as they must back 10 miles up the BNSF Beardstown Sub, to reach the connecting track  into the barge facility. They run around a loop, and then go backwards again to rejoin the CN track and proceed northbound.

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Posted by JoeKoh on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:57 PM

The CSX local here in Defiance uses the caboose on back up moves.With the change of the local coming out of Garrett they only need to use it when the go east of town.The caboose gets lonely in the yard at times when Csx takes the cars back to Garrett.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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