And to top it off, he lives around the corner from Gil Frietag...who is also a member of HALS...Spence is one of those guys that collects, works and researches trains in the real and model worlds.
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Norm48327Many models of the "pufferbellies" of the steam era are available, albeit at great cost. There are some I would love to have adorning the mantle over the fireplace.
I responded to a house in the area on a medical emergency some years ago. Whilst there I noted a number of brass HO locomotives on shelves and the mantle. When I commented on them, the owner of the house said she wasn't a model railroader - she just liked how they looked. There had to be 20 or more.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Larry, my wife has a client like that, lots of books, and brass locos on display, but no interest in building or operating a model railroad, and no interest in todays railroading.
I'm under "the tent", with the group that likes model railroading, and watching and learning all aspects of the real thing, and adding what I see and learn, to my proto-freelance modeling.
Mike.
My You Tube
I've dabbled in model railroading from time to time, and even belonged to a club for a while. Mostly, I've built up a small library and continued to expand a personal photo collection that dates back to 1969. A lot of the fun is going out to expose some film and being surprised by something I didn't expect to see. I also keep an eye out for whatever else goes by on my ride to and from work everyday.
I'm a model railroader and have been for many years. My first Arnold Rapido N scale loco will still run with a little fussing but it is 50 years old this year. I am right now building a new N scale layout that will fill a room that is 16 feet by 10, all around the walls. It's a model of the DB in about 1965 and I am trying to make it is as authentic as possible right down to operating practices and signalling as were done in West Germany 50 years ago. Resources for this are available.
More than realism, the layout has to be plausible. You can't switch loaded coal hoppers back into the mines, can you? I can not have random automobiles on the roads; for example, there can be no Volkswagen Rabbits, but old split-window Beetles will be common amongst others. People who aren't knowledgable will be impressed but I won't. I am an old European car nut as well so the layout will reflect that.
I was at a train show in London. A group had a nice O scale layout depicting a GWR freight station as it was in the early 1950s. Very realistic in just about every aspect but on a road passing over the tracks was a modern London taxi. Sorry boys, you blew it.
I am a railfan only as far as I can ride a train somewhere. I'm not interested in what kind of equipment is in use, only that the service still exists. Much as I would love to ride the 1938 20th Century Limited, I'm more upset by the fact that the service no longer exists rather than being able to ride in 79 year old equipment.
We've all heard about the railways of Britain and how the Beeching report of 1963 decimated the system. Maybe so, but there is an unreal amount of service over there. Scheduled trains stop at platforms in the middle of nowhere and you know that the tracks would have been torn up if it was in Canada or the U.S. I took a train out of Waterloo to a small town near Brighton called Ford. I was thinking, "How am I going to get back to London, there can't be much service here." On the platform I look at the schedule. There were trains every 15 minutes! Some were local, some express.
Last year I took an Amtrak from Saratoga Springs, New York to Manhattan. Two trains a day! That's it! Cripes, that's sad.
I'm a model railroader and a railfan. I definitely look at the books at the model railroad shows I attend - unless the book really, really pertains to what I am doing I won't buy it. For the railroad I am building, I very much want to follow the standards of my chosen road (CNW) as it pertains to grade, signalling, signal and structure placement, operations (broadly) and other parts of the ROW. I also want to get the details right for a modern-era layout: fiber optic poles, overhead wires, switch stands, derails - it's things like that I find most folks don't do. That's fine for them, but if I'm going to do it, I want that level of detail. And I want the details to me (mostly) correct. I've seen folks who are proud as heck of a 4x8 spray painted green with ez-track laid down all the way to a basement full of handlaid track and brass power. To each their own.
As to books, I tend to like the CNW Historical Society publications. Others...well, it depends on the content and definitely the price.
Dan
I have been a lifelong train watcher (i am 72 now)and a modeller.
I worked on the railway for ten yrs after leaving school age 14, managed a couple of years firing on steam before they were banned from London area in 1963.
I never collected numbers and names but can spend hours watching!
I dont mind if its a big Pacific or a 0-4-0 ex colliery tank loco,it's steam
I am a member at my local heritage line and usualy visit once month to watch listen and take in the smells!
I live in the UK but have been modelling the US scene for some 15yrs now,but its strictly Rule no 1, if i like it i run it,mostly the 50/60's era.40ft cars are ideal for my available space.and no one bothers about era's and road names etc.
Lots of books,and a large pile of Classic Steams and Continental Modellers on my dining room table,i am a big magaine reader!
So for me its railways in general that interest me.
Don.
In my younger days I was a serious rail fan and a serious modeler. Then I somehow picked up a wife and two daughters. Something had to go as I couldn't afford them all. Modeling lost the toss. Still have a bunch of stuff in boxes, but it hasn't been out in 40 years. On the other hand wife is still here, one daughter married off and was able to see 611 recently, so all is well.
On a side note, in marrying off the daughter I learned that I was the "Up Man"-- Show up (dressed appropriately), Pay up (no explanation needed) and Shut up (mom and bride are not interested in your opinion of the proceedings).
This is an interesting issue, but I think there are folks from one end of the spectrum to the other. There are those who seriously model and railfan, and then those who do only one or the other. A number of the modelers I know that don't railfan model railroads of decades ago and just aren't interested in today's railroad world.
However, one of the most interesting modeler issues I ever saw was at a railroad historical meeting. Inside the convention hotel, two modelers were in a major yelling fight about the details of their N&W 611 models. This had been going on for some time. They couldn't agree on several minor details of their models and were questioning the research ability and family heritage of each other. Meanwhile, the real N&W 611 was parked outside after running a local trip. However, neither would go outside to look at the locomotive, saying they didn't need to see it because they knew the design better. As far as I know, they never left the model contest room for the entire event, never looking at the real steam locomotive.
That's funny, some people go overboard with the details.. Even when you think you've got it exactly right, your model is still 87 times too small and made of plastic.. so not all that prototypical no matter what. May as well superdetail Thomas the Tank Engine or learn to live with rough approximations of accuracy.
In a past lifetime I used to be an active railfan, then Conrail happened and I mostly lost interest. Got married a few years later, had and raised kids. Did a little railfanning in mid nineties when it was know SP was going to be gobbled up by Uncle Pete (I worked for SP in it's last years). After that I quit railfanning for good, over the years what evolved into modern railroading I have no interest in at all. I ride a narrow gauge from time to time but take no pictures, it is simply a pleasant ride on a fall day with my wife.
I still model as time allows, I am no good at 2 dimentional art but pretty good at 3 dimentional art, it is therapy. With it the Erie Lackawanna and Lehigh Valley and old architecture in Rust belt cities can live again.
bartman-tn two modelers were in a major yelling fight about the details of their N&W 611 models. This had been going on for some time. They couldn't agree on several minor details of their models and were questioning the research ability and family heritage of each other. Meanwhile, the real N&W 611 was parked outside after running a local trip. However, neither would go outside to look at the locomotive, saying they didn't need to see it because they knew the design better. As far as I know, they never left the model contest room for the entire event, never looking at the real steam locomotive.
I suspect that they were both equally afraid they might be wrong.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
I was at a New Haven show in where else, New Haven and the models that people either scratch built or modified were being judged. One of the judges was J. Swanburg who wrote that big book about the NH. Compare the model to the photo in the book and that's it. Most of the people there had a copy and he was signing them. Nice to have such a guide but it sure can't match to the real thing sitting right outside.
A funny thing about that show. A lot of the people were retired from the NH and more were still working at the Metro-North. I was thinking, don't you get enough at work? Some serious train guys there.
Paul of Covington I suspect that they were both equally afraid they might be wrong.
Luckily, it is possible to be a fan of a subject without being a fan of the fandom.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
My husband is getting ready to restart his layout next year. He has said he is going for the 2 foot rule. If it looks good to him from 2 feet away screw the rivet counters. All he cares about is smooth running trackwork good running engines and being able to recreate a nice little area to run his trains and he doesn't care if they are going around in a big circle.
Ma'm, it sounds like your husband thinks the way I do. As far as my O gauge layout and detail is concerned I'll look at say, a building somewhere, back away from it until it's O scale size (typically 1/48) and judge how much detail I see. That's it, the model gets no more!
By the way I run my trains in closed loops, no switches or sidetracks. It keeps derailments to a minimum and besides, I just like to watch 'em roll.
Then there's a guy in the N gauge club my brother-in-law "Big B" belongs to nicknamed "Headless Bob." "H-B" likes to detail his N gauge passenger cars by putting people in them. Trouble is there's not a lot of room, so he cuts the heads off N scale people and glues them in the car windows.
What does he do with the headless bodys? He models wrecks!
Paul of CovingtonI suspect that they were both equally afraid they might be wrong.
I'd probably listen in long enough to figure out what they were arguing about, then go out and get the correct answer (maybe even take a picture with my phone), then join in the conversation and make both of them mad...
Firelock76Ma'm, it sounds like your husband thinks the way I do. As far as my O gauge layout and detail is concerned I'll look at say, a building somewhere, back away from it until it's O scale size (typically 1/48) and judge how much detail I see. That's it, the model gets no more!
.
Firelock76 Ma'm, it sounds like your husband thinks the way I do. As far as my O gauge layout and detail is concerned I'll look at say, a building somewhere, back away from it until it's O scale size (typically 1/48) and judge how much detail I see. That's it, the model gets no more! By the way I run my trains in closed loops, no switches or sidetracks. It keeps derailments to a minimum and besides, I just like to watch 'em roll. Then there's a guy in the N gauge club my brother-in-law "Big B" belongs to nicknamed "Headless Bob." "H-B" likes to detail his N gauge passenger cars by putting people in them. Trouble is there's not a lot of room, so he cuts the heads off N scale people and glues them in the car windows. What does he do with the headless bodys? He models wrecks!
"How often do they let 'Headless Bob' out of The Home, alone?
A major part of the concept of "selective compression." When modelling a specific building, one concentrates of the significant features (say, the towers on the North Conway, NH station). Viewers recognize that feature and pretty much ignore small inconsistancies. Except for the most rabid of "rivet counters," who will point out that the windows in the building were six pane, and you used four...
Ahh, the never ending quest for perfection. Or when is it good ENOUGH, whatever that is?
RME Backshop I can see how a railfan may not be interested in models, but how can you be interested in models, and not the real stuff that it was derived from? As with some aspects of military modeling, the creation of scenes and effects that appear realistic may be much more important than 'rivet counting' prototypical accuracy or recreating an exact historical scene or railroad detail. Books are an expensive alternative to information and images found on the Internet. Conversely, they are not very instructive on how to produce model weathering, surface finish, making decals or dry transfers and then having them lie flat -- and, all too often, they contain mistakes. I am interested in specific aspects of late high-speed steam, and in the "bad old days" I might have to shell out $50 or more for a page and a half of poorly-screened and muddily offset-printed pictures and some possibly wishful-thinking text, that being the only part relevant to my personal interest. A great deal of modeling -- see the signatures of many in the MR forum, which riff on "my pike - my rules') are concerned with providing verisimilitude of the experience of railroading, more a convincing version of reality than slavish recreation of prototype, even when they use favorite 'road names' or equipment types. I happen to agree with getting the details 'right' when you can, but conversely when I see a jewel-like piece of craftsmanship I may not complain that the Franklin valve drive shafts rotate the wrong way or the actuation lines for the Okadees are not done right.
Backshop I can see how a railfan may not be interested in models, but how can you be interested in models, and not the real stuff that it was derived from?
As with some aspects of military modeling, the creation of scenes and effects that appear realistic may be much more important than 'rivet counting' prototypical accuracy or recreating an exact historical scene or railroad detail.
Books are an expensive alternative to information and images found on the Internet. Conversely, they are not very instructive on how to produce model weathering, surface finish, making decals or dry transfers and then having them lie flat -- and, all too often, they contain mistakes. I am interested in specific aspects of late high-speed steam, and in the "bad old days" I might have to shell out $50 or more for a page and a half of poorly-screened and muddily offset-printed pictures and some possibly wishful-thinking text, that being the only part relevant to my personal interest.
A great deal of modeling -- see the signatures of many in the MR forum, which riff on "my pike - my rules') are concerned with providing verisimilitude of the experience of railroading, more a convincing version of reality than slavish recreation of prototype, even when they use favorite 'road names' or equipment types. I happen to agree with getting the details 'right' when you can, but conversely when I see a jewel-like piece of craftsmanship I may not complain that the Franklin valve drive shafts rotate the wrong way or the actuation lines for the Okadees are not done right.
Disclaimer - I have not read all the replies, but RME sumed it up pretty well.
A few more thoughts from me, a modeler who is not much of a railfan.
First and most importantly, in my modeling I model 1954. I have been modeling since 1968. I have studied a lot about the prototype and been to many museums and historic tourist lines.
But modern day railroading? It offers no insights into my modeling, I have little interest in what was done in 1970, or 1990, or what is going on right now on the "real railroads".
And watching modern day trains does not really do much for me - so I don't seek out any railfaning activities - except for steam excursions and historic lines like Strasburg, or museums like the B&O.
Not to brag, but I know a lot about real trains, how and why they work, their history of developement, etc. BUT, I know the most about the time period I model, and the railroads I model - the B&O, C&O and Western Maryland.
If one actually expects to build a nice sized functioning model railroad, one needs to narrow the focus and set realistic goals. For me that generally excludes setting around listening to scanners, waiting for trains that look nothing like the models I am building.
Now if you have a time machine for someplace like Brunswick MD in September 1954, I'm all in.
Sheldon
We're polar opposites.. I model what I see near my house..questions can most often be answered by going down to trackside and having a look. I also like the look and sheer size of the modern diesels and rolling stock. I leave out what I don't like.. i.e. excessive weathering, garbage, graffitti.. etc. In most other respects I try to stay true to the prototype as much as possible.
samfp1943 Firelock76 Ma'm, it sounds like your husband thinks the way I do. As far as my O gauge layout and detail is concerned I'll look at say, a building somewhere, back away from it until it's O scale size (typically 1/48) and judge how much detail I see. That's it, the model gets no more! By the way I run my trains in closed loops, no switches or sidetracks. It keeps derailments to a minimum and besides, I just like to watch 'em roll. Then there's a guy in the N gauge club my brother-in-law "Big B" belongs to nicknamed "Headless Bob." "H-B" likes to detail his N gauge passenger cars by putting people in them. Trouble is there's not a lot of room, so he cuts the heads off N scale people and glues them in the car windows. What does he do with the headless bodys? He models wrecks! The queston that seems to needed to be asked: "How often do they let 'Headless Bob' out of The Home, alone?
The queston that seems to needed to be asked:
Good question Sam! Next time I see "Big B" I'll have to ask!
By the way, the former president of his N Gauge club was impeached and removed from office for anger management issues, got them thrown out of one rental property too many!
Anyway, Google Northern New Jersey N-Trak to see what they're up to. They seem like normal enough guys...
Firelock76 "I yam what I yam!" Popeye the Sailor
"I yam what I yam!"
Popeye the Sailor
Words that appear in a number of my posts, along with 'contrarian.'
When youth and health permitted, I was a very active railfan. I have months (literally) of DMU/EMU head-end time (from the windowed bulkhead right behind the operator's cubby, or the center door glass of ancient NYC subway cars.) I have left footprints along the public access areas along NYC, PRR and other rights-of-way.
All of that was in support of a model railroading hobby that started with my first Christmas Lionel train - lithographed steel - which I received at the ripe old age of five - months.
As a pre-schooler, I dreamed of modeling the Third Avenue L. (Kids have big dreams!) Later I dropped to ground level and chased NYC steam until it disappeared. All that time, having a layout was the impossible dream, but I did build rolling stock and a few buildings.
Then I joined the Air Force and found myself on the far side of a rather wide ocean, in railfan paradise. My interest in US rail operations was overwhelmed by the frenetic operations and fascinating equipment of the Japan National Railways. Then the young lady in my life dropped the seed crystal - a kit for a nice little 'foobie' locomotive, a brass 2-6-4T that resembled, but wasn't, a JNR C11 class. My modeling interest (and railfanning time) shifted to the JNR and I've never looked back.
I might glance at a tableful of prototype-oriented books, but the only ones that would catch my interest are those with Japanese captions on excellent photos of JNR and private railway rolling stock and facilities - and I already own a rather extensive library of such.
I've noticed in the MR forums the prototype (and even the serious freelance) modelers have pushed a pin into space-time and announced, "This is when and where I model." Someone modeling coastal New England is unlikely to care what the SP Sacramento Shops built for other railroads. Likewise, the SP in California modeler cares not for UP on Sherman Hill; and a logging fan from Portland, OR, knows that the Southern served the South - which might as well be Antarctica as far as that person's interest is concerned. People with very concentrated areas of interest will seek out information that fits between their personal bookends and disregard anything else.
So, my personal bookends. See below.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - from my own field notes and photos)
Chuck, you'd probably appreciate the rules for the "Great Scale Train Show" that runs at least (I think) twice a year in Timonium, MD. If memory serves they're simple, and go as follows.
"Trains and model railroad related items ONLY! No non-train toys of any kind, sci-fi stuff, flea market stuff, or ANYTHING that isn't railroad related."
"Unless you're modeling Japanese railroads, then it's OK to have Godzilla on the display!"
That's one show I haven't been to yet. It's a three hour drive from where I live which is a bit out of the zone I'm willing to go for a train show, but I've heard it's pretty spectacular.
Wayne
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