I realize that a lot of questions I have about how railroads operate have answers along the lines of "Garsh! There could be 101 reasons why they did it that way." I continue to ask the questions, as it helps me better understand how railroads operate. As I was getting ready to leave for work this morning, I heard the train blowing for the crossing 6 blocks from my house. I figured from the horn that it was probably an empty grainer heading through. I was close, as it turned out to be an empty ethanol unit train. My route to work parallels the track, running about a half mile away. Not too far into my commute I spotted the train. It was stopped with the DPU unit just clearing a gravel mile road. The next mile road is a county highway. My route has a stop light at the intersection so I had a little while to observe the train. The train was just over a mile long, as the two lead engines were passed the crossing. As I watched, the engineer put the petal to the metal and started the train moving again. Garsh! There could be 101 reasons why the train had stopped and started again. What intrigues me is the fact that the train came through my neighborhood, usually traveling in the 30 m.p.h. range ran, south 3 miles, stopped and started again, all inside of 10 minutes tops. The myriad of dumb questions: This would be some sort of emergency stop? Doesn't something have to be tested or reset before hitting the road again? Wouldn't a quick stop mean something needs to be checked like the *check engine light* or the flux capacitor? The train took right off. My office is 1 mile south of where the train stopped. Within 5 minutes it was blowing for the crossing. Is it possible that someone had just lost a contact lens and they had stop for a second to find it?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
My guess is the crossing protection (if so equipped) had failed and the crew had to stop and flag the crossing until the power occupied it. CN refers to such a situation as Rule 529a:
"529. ACTIVATION FAILURE/FALSE ACTIVATION. Employees must observe all automatic crossing warning devices and report any that are malfunctioning to the RTC by the first available means of communication. RTC will issue instructions for the malfunction and these instructions will remain in effect until repairs are completed.
A. ACTIVATION FAILURE. When notified of an activation failure: • Stop before entering crossing • Proceed only on signal from employee at the crossing. If there is one properly equipped flagman available, proceed into crossing not exceeding 15 MPH until the leading end of the train completely occupies the crossing. Then proceed at normal speed. If there are enough properly equipped flagmen to provide warning for each direction of highway traffic, or at least one uniformed law enforcement officer (railroad or police) at the crossing, movement may proceed at normal speed through the crossing."
Otherwise...maybe a crew change or a hold-out point for some place down the line. Are there signals there or a named Control Point?
Dan
Maybe he stopped because he had to go.
Jeff
Could also be this train was following another train and had to stop because the other train was slow to leave the block it was in (the block this train was about to enter).
RR's use a signal system where one signal can tell the engineer the state of the next signal and whether or not the engineer should slow and expect to stop at it. Often by the time they get to the next signal it is green and they can proceed, often expecting to stop at the next one.... they can cross great distances expecting to stop at the next signal and then not have to, or they can get stopped, only to have the signal turn green within minutes.
Next time you cross the RR at the place where the head-end was stopped, look to just ahead of where the engines were to see if there is a signal there.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
jeffhergert Maybe he stopped because he had to go. Jeff
When you gotta go...
Could have been a penalty of some type. Could have used the air and wasn't able to do a running release. Or some other reason.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann jeffhergert Maybe he stopped because he had to go. Jeff When you gotta go... Could have been a penalty of some type. Could have used the air and wasn't able to do a running release. Or some other reason.
Penalty brake application. Can be caused by the alerter counting down, a cab signal change, PTC or glitch in any of the former. In that part of the world if it's from a penalty application, I would guess the alerter. Either wouldn't acknowledge or maybe a defect allowed it to count down without any visial or audible warning.
The way MS described it, I think they stopped on purpose. Why, I could only speculate, something that seems to be popular around here.
Once many years ago, I saw a local freight crew momentarily stop so they could pick mushrooms. So you never can tell why a train has stopped. The official reason for the stop and resulting delay was sticking brakes on a car in the train. At least that was what the butterfly the conductor (back in the day of cabooses and depots) tossed off said.
Murphy Siding It was stopped with the DPU unit just clearing a gravel mile road.
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Is the line signalled?
If it's not, look around that area for a "block station" sign, usually a fairly short name (or a fraction thereof). The crew may have only had "paper" to that point.
Is there a yard that way? The crew might have gotten held out due to work ongoing in the yard.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Many engines are equipped for either Train Contol and/or PTC. Both of these 'safety aids' rely on a number of inputs - if the inputs don't appear in the proper order and proper time frame the safety aid can and does initiate a full service penalty brake application. ALL penalty application are made at the full service application rate - NOT EMERGENCY. After stopping the crew releases the brakes and continues - they MAY need to make changes in how the TC/PTC is currently configured on the lead engine. Even when the 'safety aid' is cut out because it is not required on the territory that is being it can still initiate a penalty brake application (why is beyond my technical competence).
On my former carrier my territory included subdivisions that had TC and other subdivisions that had PTC. In the TC territory frequently the software on the engine (with modern locomotives these safety aids are incorporated with all the other sofware that is required to run the diesel engine, control the main generator, supply power to traction motors, remove defective traction motors from the electrical system, initiate dynamic brakeing as well as run the air brake system) will 'malfunction' in some form, 'territory mismatch' being one error that will make a penalty application if the train exceeds 20 MPH - the list of issues goes on and on.
Every time you make the safety aids more complex you also increase the likelyhood of 'something' not being exactly right and the train is brought to a stop.
Debuging PTC is going to be a monumental challenge because of all the different physical characteristics of the territories where it will be in operation and to be successful it must be as close to 100% reliabile as humanly possible.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD, said [in part]"...Every time you make the safety aids more complex you also increase the likelyhood of 'something' not being exactly right and the train is brought to a stop.
Debuging PTC is going to be a monumental challenge because of all the different physical characteristics of the territories where it will be in operation and to be successful it must be as close to 100% reliabile as humanly possible..."
Just want to ask this, from an 'outsider' stand point; It surely seems that as is pointed out in Balt's statement, The introduction of "Foreign Power Units" (or run through power) would seem to thoroughly effect that practice with the use of 'off-road' on those territories? It would seem to defeat the purpose of engine manufacturer's creating universal, interchangable, engines?
samfp1943 BaltACD, said [in part]"...Every time you make the safety aids more complex you also increase the likelyhood of 'something' not being exactly right and the train is brought to a stop. Debuging PTC is going to be a monumental challenge because of all the different physical characteristics of the territories where it will be in operation and to be successful it must be as close to 100% reliabile as humanly possible..." Just want to ask this, from an 'outsider' stand point; It surely seems that as is pointed out in Balt's statement, The introduction of "Foreign Power Units" (or run through power) would seem to thoroughly effect that practice with the use of 'off-road' on those territories? It would seem to defeat the purpose of engine manufacturer's creating universal, interchangable, engines?
Part of the reason PTC is such a difficult product to be developed is because of it's need to be interoperatable on all the carriers that are required to have PTC installed on their properties. A UP engine with PTC equipment installed is SUPPOSED to operate on CSX properly as far as PTC is required, the same for CSX engines on NS, BNSF, UP, KCS or any other carrier whose operations require PTC.
To my mind the NEC is a wild card as I don't believe what Amtrak has built is the same as what the other Class 1 carriers have been working on.
I recommend getting a scanner. It will help in understanding why they do some things.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
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