Shadow the Cats ownerThat is what our customers are telling me on the phone...
Well whatever the price difference is between Chinese products and American-made products; it can be eliminated with the stroke of a pen by adding a sufficient import tariff. That ends the price difference by raising the price of Chinese imports to match our prices. So it guarantees that the price of Chinese products will match the price of our products.
However, it does NOT guarantee that the jobs that were lost to china for lower cost production will come back to the U.S., which is the whole point. THAT point depends on whether U.S. consumers will be willing to pay the new higher price for their products. Economics 101 says that when you raise your price, it reduces your sales.
Consumers are perfectly willing to cut back their consumption if prices for what they consume happen to rise. So the import tariff can easily backfire and leave us in a far worse condition than before. But wait-- the damage does not stop there. Countries hurt by loss of sales due to our tariff will try to get us to lift the tariff by inflicting pain on us. They will do this by blocking our imports into their countries.
You end up with not free trade.
That and the reduced sales in this country will make our economy worse, not better.
schlimm Murphy Siding Shadow the Cats owner That is what our customers are telling me on the phone. They are basing that on total costs of Customs duties for the stuff they have to Import to China to make their goods there shipping costs to and from China via both containers and sometimes air freight when the ship is delayed due to a mechanical breakdown in the middle of the Ocean or at another port. It happens more than you realize. The labor costs the taxes and unlike us or at least not as bad greasing the palms of the corrupt government officals. One customer we have that would love to bring all his production home when his contracts run out can't get anything out of China for less than 10k to a local party boss in an envolpe in 100's why becuase he can and has declared his product Banned under Chinese Law and seized the entire run before. What does this man make your going to laugh your butt off those pizza box inserts that keep boxes from crushing each other. You know those little plastic ones. Well the Offical in China has in the past declared them to be Religous in nature and seized Millions of them. Yeah he thinks they are crosses. OK. Good to know the science behind your research otherwise I'd think you were just making this stuff up. Don't worry. It doesn't diminsh your credibility any. Hard to imagine how those trucks can oprate under these burdens.
Murphy Siding Shadow the Cats owner That is what our customers are telling me on the phone. They are basing that on total costs of Customs duties for the stuff they have to Import to China to make their goods there shipping costs to and from China via both containers and sometimes air freight when the ship is delayed due to a mechanical breakdown in the middle of the Ocean or at another port. It happens more than you realize. The labor costs the taxes and unlike us or at least not as bad greasing the palms of the corrupt government officals. One customer we have that would love to bring all his production home when his contracts run out can't get anything out of China for less than 10k to a local party boss in an envolpe in 100's why becuase he can and has declared his product Banned under Chinese Law and seized the entire run before. What does this man make your going to laugh your butt off those pizza box inserts that keep boxes from crushing each other. You know those little plastic ones. Well the Offical in China has in the past declared them to be Religous in nature and seized Millions of them. Yeah he thinks they are crosses. OK. Good to know the science behind your research otherwise I'd think you were just making this stuff up. Don't worry. It doesn't diminsh your credibility any.
Shadow the Cats owner That is what our customers are telling me on the phone. They are basing that on total costs of Customs duties for the stuff they have to Import to China to make their goods there shipping costs to and from China via both containers and sometimes air freight when the ship is delayed due to a mechanical breakdown in the middle of the Ocean or at another port. It happens more than you realize. The labor costs the taxes and unlike us or at least not as bad greasing the palms of the corrupt government officals. One customer we have that would love to bring all his production home when his contracts run out can't get anything out of China for less than 10k to a local party boss in an envolpe in 100's why becuase he can and has declared his product Banned under Chinese Law and seized the entire run before. What does this man make your going to laugh your butt off those pizza box inserts that keep boxes from crushing each other. You know those little plastic ones. Well the Offical in China has in the past declared them to be Religous in nature and seized Millions of them. Yeah he thinks they are crosses.
That is what our customers are telling me on the phone. They are basing that on total costs of Customs duties for the stuff they have to Import to China to make their goods there shipping costs to and from China via both containers and sometimes air freight when the ship is delayed due to a mechanical breakdown in the middle of the Ocean or at another port. It happens more than you realize. The labor costs the taxes and unlike us or at least not as bad greasing the palms of the corrupt government officals. One customer we have that would love to bring all his production home when his contracts run out can't get anything out of China for less than 10k to a local party boss in an envolpe in 100's why becuase he can and has declared his product Banned under Chinese Law and seized the entire run before. What does this man make your going to laugh your butt off those pizza box inserts that keep boxes from crushing each other. You know those little plastic ones. Well the Offical in China has in the past declared them to be Religous in nature and seized Millions of them. Yeah he thinks they are crosses.
OK. Good to know the science behind your research otherwise I'd think you were just making this stuff up. Don't worry. It doesn't diminsh your credibility any.
Hard to imagine how those trucks can oprate under these burdens.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding Shadow the Cats owner That is what our customers are telling me on the phone. They are basing that on total costs of Customs duties for the stuff they have to Import to China to make their goods there shipping costs to and from China via both containers and sometimes air freight when the ship is delayed due to a mechanical breakdown in the middle of the Ocean or at another port. It happens more than you realize. The labor costs the taxes and unlike us or at least not as bad greasing the palms of the corrupt government officals. One customer we have that would love to bring all his production home when his contracts run out can't get anything out of China for less than 10k to a local party boss in an envolpe in 100's why becuase he can and has declared his product Banned under Chinese Law and seized the entire run before. What does this man make your going to laugh your butt off those pizza box inserts that keep boxes from crushing each other. You know those little plastic ones. Well the Offical in China has in the past declared them to be Religous in nature and seized Millions of them. Yeah he thinks they are crosses. OK. Good to know the science behind your research otherwise I'd think you were just making this stuff up. Don't worry. It doesn't diminsh your credibility any. Hard to imagine how those trucks can oprate under these burdens. No doubt. That has to be cost prohibitive to truck a container of 2 cent items when the ship is delayed due to mechanical breakdowns in the middle of the ocean.
No doubt. That has to be cost prohibitive to truck a container of 2 cent items when the ship is delayed due to mechanical breakdowns in the middle of the ocean.
Your observation is duly noted. On with the show!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Yep, putting on a 35% tariff on the multimillion dollar pizza saver industry will definitely bring all those factories and jobs back to the USA and make America great again. Figuring that you might be able to get about 5,000,000 of those puppies in a 53 foot semi van, this would surely constitute a couple dozen trucks per year. Perhaps the railroads should be pursuing that business?
The tariff is the centerpiece of a plan to revitalize the U.S. economy, which everyone generally agrees is not growing fast enough.
I have no idea what the total plan is regarding the desire to bring manufacturing back to this country, but the following seem to be under consideration:
Threaten a 35% trade tariff as a negotiating tactic in order to discourage companies from moving production to other countries, encourage companies that have already moved production to move it back to the U.S., and prevent foreign based companies from undercutting our country in the production of products.
Use the power of the presidency to strong arm and bully companies against moving production to other countries.
Offer government paid incentives to companies to not move production to other countries and import products back into this country.
Do a combination of #2 and #3.
Impose a large import tariff on products made by U.S. companies if they move production to another country and import products back into this country.
Impose a large import tariff on products made by companies that have already moved production to another country and import products back into this country.
Impose a large import tariff on all products made in other countries by companies based in those countries.
Do #5-7 by imposing a large import tariff on all products.
Lower tax rates and regulations on all U.S. citizens and businesses to incentivize investment and expand business and consumer spending
In my opinion, doing items #1-8 to bring back jobs would be like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube, and would make the economy worse. What seems to be missing from the strategy is item #9, the one option that would actually succeed.
It would seem like an easy target would be toying with the depreciation write-offs available on equipment for businesses based on origin of said equipment and whether it was available in the US. That might be a little more subtle than saber rattling and firing shots over the bow.
Murphy Siding It would seem like an easy target would be toying with the depreciation write-offs available on equipment for businesses based on origin of said equipment and whether it was available in the US. That might be a little more subtle than saber rattling and firing shots over the bow.
CSSHEGEWISCH Murphy Siding It would seem like an easy target would be toying with the depreciation write-offs available on equipment for businesses based on origin of said equipment and whether it was available in the US. That might be a little more subtle than saber rattling and firing shots over the bow. Anybody who has taken an introductory accounting course knows that there are three recognized methods of calculating depreciation. No matter what method is used, a generally accepted lifetime for the equipment (15 years for locomotives as an example) is used. Miningman's suggestion sounds like creative accounting with lots of unintended consequences courtesy of the United States Tax Code.
As Murphy suggested, and it frequently happens, Congress does tinker with depreciation rules to encourage/discourage one or another class of taxpayers. The most common method used is to shorten allowable depreciation lives for tax purposes -- in some cases to 100% immediate write off or perhaps to the generation of a tax credit, which is even better.
In theory, that doesn't change the way the asset should be depreciated on the books of the business, but it can create a complexity on the books called a deferred tax account. Many smaller business do not bother to track depreciation differences and record deferred taxes.
King, NC.
I tend to agree. Here's a somewhat "cockeyed optimist" view from the Fiscal Times.
ROSBORNE68 What people forget, is that trade is a two way street. The US imports a lot of consumer goods but also exports a lot of stuff. The US exports a lot of agriculture commodities and farm products and value added products. Companies like Boeing benefit from more liberal trade deals with other countries. I do believe that Boeing sells a lot of their commercial aircraft products to foreign customers. I suspect that Boeing probably provides some good jobs that pay good wages and salaries. If Trump imposes an all out trade tariff on imported goods even if it is just China, US farmers and companies like Boeing will have a harder time selling their stuff. That in turn can mean a loss of jobs, maybe a lot of jobs. Too top it off the consumer will have to pay more for products at the store. Trade wars are a bad idea.
That is absolutely correct. An import tariff plugs one hole and opens two more, making things worse than before you started. The hole it plugs is the loss of jobs to foreign competition. The two holes it opens are as follows:
The loss of jobs due to manufacturing slowdown from reduced product demand due to the higher prices imposed by the tariff.
The loss of jobs due to manufacturing slowdown from reduced product demand due to tariff retaliation against our exporters.
All that an import tariff can do is prevent further job loss to foreign manufacturers. But that one benefit will be far outweighed by the new job losses caused by item #1 and #2.
A tariff is like a communist country building a wall to keep their people from leaving. But a country that treats people fairly does not need to build a wall to keep people in. They stay in the free country because they like it.
It is similar with job loss. Jobs leave because they find lower taxes, regulations, and labor cost in foreign countries. Lower taxes and regulations in this country will make the foreign competition less attractive.
Do that, and not only will job loss decline, but also, jobs will return from foreign competitors. But far more importantly; the whole U.S. economy will begin to grow and create brand new jobs. The current ongoing failure to do that is a far greater problem than the job loss to foreign competition.
So, I feel that the current proposal to solve our economic woes by a punitive import tariff and public shaming of certain companies to set an example is short sighted and misguided. Some say it is just a negotiating tactic. Maybe so, but why use a tactic that barks up the wrong tree?
I hear now that free trade with Mexico is not good enough. It must also be fair trade. We are told that we must have "free and fair trade" What needs to change in order to make our free trade fair?
Euclid I hear now that free trade with Mexico is not good enough. It must also be fair trade. We are told that we must have "free and fair trade" What needs to change in order to make our free trade fair?
I believe these are mostly empty slogans designed to appeal to his hard core base and expand it to include more workers. meanwhile, the banksters are lining up for a big reward.
They may be empty slogans, but I just want to know what "Fair trade" is in the context of changing our trade policy toward Mexico. I welcome the explanation in Econ 101.
Euclid They may be empty slogans, but I just want to know what "Fair trade" is in the context of changing our trade policy toward Mexico. I welcome the explanation in Econ 101.
Check with Trump and his staff.
It seems to me that free trade and fair trade are antithetical to each other. Free trade allows the world supply of goods to set prices by competition, and sell to the world market. Fair trade is massive regulation in which the importing nation subsidizes the lowest bidder producing nation. The reasoning is that it would be unfair exploitation of the lowest bidder to pay only what they ask for price. The reasoning goes further to say that paying the lowest bidder only what they ask will result in the lowest bidder causing harm the eco system by cutting corners to achieve their lowest price.
The President says he wants free trade with Mexico, but he also wants it to be fair trade. When he refers to “fair trade,” I do not think he means what I describe above as the true definition of the term. When he says we don’t have fair trade with Mexico, I think he means that we import more from Mexico than they import from us. He frames that issue as meaning that Mexico not being fair with us, as though they are cheating on the trade transaction.
However, we import more from Mexico than they import from us because they are the lower cost producer. We benefit from their lower cost. They owe us nothing more. There is nothing unfair about it. If we expect Mexico to consume our products, then we must provide them cheaper than Mexico can produce them. That is how free trade works, and it is entirely fair. Free trade means that either country is free to import from the other, and that neither country can force the other to import from them. There is nothing unfair about Mexico’s decision to not import products from our country.
Legally the President can only institute a 15% Tariff for a maximum of 6 months, and Congress is already talking about reducing that...so unless all these businesses don't know the law(and you can bet they do), then Donald is bluffing.
Several of his recent actions suggest that Blondie does NOT know the law.
CSSHEGEWISCH Several of his recent actions suggest that Blondie does NOT know the law.
Let's face it - very few of us know the law, except as it may apply in our area of interest.
Anyone who drives for business can probably tell you the current IRS mileage rate. How many know what the Medicare mileage rate is for a ride in an ambulance? (I don't know, either...)
Of course, the Prez should have advisors that can tell him that, but an off-the-cuff or otherwise unresearched statement usually sticks until it gets corrected with enough emphasis.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 CSSHEGEWISCH Several of his recent actions suggest that Blondie does NOT know the law. Let's face it - very few of us know the law, except as it may apply in our area of interest. Anyone who drives for business can probably tell you the current IRS mileage rate. How many know what the Medicare mileage rate is for a ride in an ambulance? (I don't know, either...) Of course, the Prez should have advisors that can tell him that, but an off-the-cuff or otherwise unresearched statement usually sticks until it gets corrected with enough emphasis.
Even if a President knows the law, the key is that he respects both it and the Constitutional due process.
CSSHEGEWISCHSeveral of his recent actions suggest that Blondie does NOT know the law.
Even if he doesn't, his advisors are very likely to know, and he would be more apt to abide by it than his predecessor.
Norm
It will do nothing to help the railroads. In fact it will likely hurt them. A lot of railroad revenue comes from intermodal international transport. The port in LA will virtually be crushed in terms of work.Companies will wait this one out. It takes years to build a proper factory. And no company is going to invest tens of millions in a new factory when in 4 years, the whole enchilada is likely to be undone.For this to work it really needed to be phased in slowly to avoid economic shock with a popular support of the public and congress to ensure it's long term viability.That said, there was provisions years ago where sub assemblies could be made overseas with final assembly here. The sub assemblies were counted as parts and therefore not taxed. It was a win-win as the work of assembling them still occured here.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I am not worried about the Administration understanding the law on tariffs. I worry that they don’t understand the economic effects of tariffs. Of course, nothing has been decided yet, but a tariff on imports from Mexico has been floated in three different contexts so far.
1) A tariff to bring jobs lost to Mexico back to the U.S.
2) A tariff to force Mexico to import our product to the extent that we import their products.
3) A tariff to force Mexico to pay for the wall out of funds provided by the tariff.
All three of these are based in vengeance, and none of them will accomplish what they intend. All of them will damage our economy and Mexico’s economy. All three will damage our relationship with Mexico. All three will raise the price of products in the U.S.
Protective tariffs have long been used (in US since the early republic with Hamilton) as a way of shielding fledgling industries from competition. The public essentially pays to subsidize domestic industries through higher prices.
schlimm Protective tariffs have long been used (in US since the early republic with Hamilton) as a way of shielding fledgling industries from competition. The public essentially pays to subsidize domestic industries through higher prices.
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