I watched a loaded grain train run by *backwards*. It had one pumpkin on the front and two on the back, the opposite of what I usually see on loaded grainers. How is the train handling different when 2/3 of the power is on the back instead of the usual front end?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding I watched a loaded grain train run by *backwards*. It had one pumpkin on the front and two on the back, the opposite of what I usually see on loaded grainers. How is the train handling different when 2/3 of the power is on the back instead of the usual front end?
Takes a lot longer to run to the second unit to take care of, um, business?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Were all 3 units running? The only times I have ever seen this are when the remote unit has failed en-route and another unit has been scrounged up to replace it, with the original unit (now dead-in-tow) left on the train for furtherance to a repair shop.
But under CN's operating rules a remote consist cannot have more locomotives than the lead consist, so a 1x2 setup like this would be illegal. Perhaps BNSF's rules are different.
I can think of a few problems and extra considerations to take into account while operating such a train, but as I am not qualified as an Engineer (only a Conductor) I will leave the train handling considerations to those who are more experienced; hopefully BaltACD, Zugmann or Jeff Hergert will offer their opinions.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70M-2DudeI will leave the train handling considerations to those who are more experienced; hopefully BaltACD, Zugmann or Jeff Hergert will offer their opinions.
Don't ask me. I'm not DPU qualified. It's still rare around these parts.
Murphy - we have had both 2 and 2 and 1 and 2 like you saw. I have trouble telling if both DPU's are running or not, so no help there. But I have seen it more than once, so it doesn't trigger any "odd sighting" for me. However, the 9 engines leading a freight - now that one was interesting. I just figure it is a rearranging of the "furniture".
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Mookie, Nine engines would likely be a power move to get engines where they are needed. Not all would be running. Only those necessary to move the train will be on line.
Norm
Norm48327 Mookie, Nine engines would likely be a power move to get engines where they are needed. Not all would be running. Only those necessary to move the train will be on line.
Or a move to get defective engines to the shop.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Since we are "between" the east and the coal, I figured it must be moving engines either to or from the coal field areas. Or like Balt said - in for repair.
We do have a moderate-sized locomotive shop here that we can almost see from where we sit. So they could be coming here for repair, maybe.
Mookie Murphy - we have had both 2 and 2 and 1 and 2 like you saw. I have trouble telling if both DPU's are running or not, so no help there. But I have seen it more than once, so it doesn't trigger any "odd sighting" for me. However, the 9 engines leading a freight - now that one was interesting. I just figure it is a rearranging of the "furniture".
Mookie: Those couple of regular train through here that run DPU's mid train, and rear-end seem to have them both running. At least when they stop them out back they are usually running. Westbound is a small downhill grade, and Eastbound is uphill (around 1% +- ) Those trains are generally export-type containers, on the front portion, I also have observed, on the rear portions, anything from more export-type cans, to TOFC, even auto carriers, and domestic cans double stacked.
Head- end power can be 2-3- or 4 units, mid train is usually a couple of units in DPU, and the rear power can be one or two units. The most head end power I've seen coming off the T-con heading towards Wichita; on one train, was 11 units. I know probably only 2 or 3 were powered, and the rest DIT (?) . But that many engines on the head-end is a pretty impressive sight.
SD70M-2Dude Were all 3 units running? The only times I have ever seen this are when the remote unit has failed en-route and another unit has been scrounged up to replace it, with the original unit (now dead-in-tow) left on the train for furtherance to a repair shop. But under CN's operating rules a remote consist cannot have more locomotives than the lead consist, so a 1x2 setup like this would be illegal. Perhaps BNSF's rules are different. I can think of a few problems and extra considerations to take into account while operating such a train, but as I am not qualified as an Engineer (only a Conductor) I will leave the train handling considerations to those who are more experienced; hopefully BaltACD, Zugmann or Jeff Hergert will offer their opinions.
Murphy Siding SD70M-2Dude Were all 3 units running? The only times I have ever seen this are when the remote unit has failed en-route and another unit has been scrounged up to replace it, with the original unit (now dead-in-tow) left on the train for furtherance to a repair shop. But under CN's operating rules a remote consist cannot have more locomotives than the lead consist, so a 1x2 setup like this would be illegal. Perhaps BNSF's rules are different. I can think of a few problems and extra considerations to take into account while operating such a train, but as I am not qualified as an Engineer (only a Conductor) I will leave the train handling considerations to those who are more experienced; hopefully BaltACD, Zugmann or Jeff Hergert will offer their opinions. Not sure if they were all running. What would be the logic behind prohibiting more engines on thae back than on front? We're pretty much flatland railroading around here.
Not sure if they were all running. What would be the logic behind prohibiting more engines on thae back than on front? We're pretty much flatland railroading around here.
Would the reason for not having more power on the hind end than the head end have something to do with avoiding the jacknifing of the train rather than just pulling it in two?
Guessing here....Do we know which way the 3 engines were facing?
Train somehow started with 2 front, 1 behind, couldn't get turned around in some small yard and ended up have to cab the crew up to the original DPU and take it out that way.
OR - going to drop off the 2nd DPU along the trip somewhere, so all you have to do is cruise by, cut off the 2nd DPU and continue on. (I know, you have to stop to do all this, but space here is short, so use your imagination.)
OR - 2 units on headend; lead unit developed mechanical trouble, so went to the other end and used the original DPU as the new lead engine. Drug the original lead unit either DIT or maybe just as power.
I think I broke a brain cell on that one.
OK - line up to tell me I am wrong, wrong, wrong. Gives us all something to do!
Moo.....
Did the train along it's route go around one leg of a wye, that then caused it to depart that location with the former rear of the train now being he head end of the train?
SD70M-2DudeThe only times I have ever seen this are when the remote unit has failed en-route and another unit has been scrounged up to replace it, with the original unit (now dead-in-tow) left on the train for furtherance to a repair shop.
I have seen this situation on both lines on the Rochelle Cam. It never occurred to me until now that that was what was probably happening.
I really should get back to bed. Funny time to be learning something new.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
BaltACD Did the train along it's route go around one leg of a wye, that then caused it to depart that location with the former rear of the train now being he head end of the train?
Euclid Murphy Siding SD70M-2Dude Were all 3 units running? The only times I have ever seen this are when the remote unit has failed en-route and another unit has been scrounged up to replace it, with the original unit (now dead-in-tow) left on the train for furtherance to a repair shop. But under CN's operating rules a remote consist cannot have more locomotives than the lead consist, so a 1x2 setup like this would be illegal. Perhaps BNSF's rules are different. I can think of a few problems and extra considerations to take into account while operating such a train, but as I am not qualified as an Engineer (only a Conductor) I will leave the train handling considerations to those who are more experienced; hopefully BaltACD, Zugmann or Jeff Hergert will offer their opinions. Not sure if they were all running. What would be the logic behind prohibiting more engines on thae back than on front? We're pretty much flatland railroading around here. Would the reason for not having more power on the hind end than the head end have something to do with avoiding the jacknifing of the train rather than just pulling it in two?
That is my suspicion, but I can't confirm anything.
Down here, both UP and BNSF run them in here with 2 leads, 1 trail, or 1 lead 2 trails....the latter seems to be the norm on both, when they leave out, the 2 lead in the lead seems to be the regular run.
23 17 46 11
SD70M-2Dude Euclid Murphy Siding SD70M-2Dude Were all 3 units running? The only times I have ever seen this are when the remote unit has failed en-route and another unit has been scrounged up to replace it, with the original unit (now dead-in-tow) left on the train for furtherance to a repair shop. But under CN's operating rules a remote consist cannot have more locomotives than the lead consist, so a 1x2 setup like this would be illegal. Perhaps BNSF's rules are different. I can think of a few problems and extra considerations to take into account while operating such a train, but as I am not qualified as an Engineer (only a Conductor) I will leave the train handling considerations to those who are more experienced; hopefully BaltACD, Zugmann or Jeff Hergert will offer their opinions. Not sure if they were all running. What would be the logic behind prohibiting more engines on thae back than on front? We're pretty much flatland railroading around here. Would the reason for not having more power on the hind end than the head end have something to do with avoiding the jacknifing of the train rather than just pulling it in two? That is my suspicion, but I can't confirm anything.
My thought is that it would similar reasoning to the rule requiring a number of units in a head end consist to be limited when shoving backwards, and taking some units off line if necessary to meet that requirement. The point is to limit the buff force in order to avoid jacknifing the train as the units shove back.
We don't see 1x2 configurations too often. I think one of the Omaha coal trains does run that way returning west empty. Otherwise, we don't see that much.
The only reason I can think of doing that regularly is because it changed direction somewhere and the last became first. I don't think there is any advantage to having one on the rear.
With two on the back, most of the time it won't be any different then a 2x1. There maybe times when operating the DP consist insync with the lead that it will give you a little bump to remind you it's back there. The same thing sometimes happens with a 1x1. Usually going through a sag. The head end can't pull away from the train and the slack comes in. It's usually not severe, just enough to feel it. The way to stop it is to put up the "fence" and reduce power on the DP. (I do the same thing on 2x1 trains when throttling down if I think the DP isn't immediately responding. The say DPs respond immediately, unless there is comm loss, but once in a while my butt says otherwise.)
Jeff
EuclidMy thought is that it would similar reasoning to the rule requiring a number of units in a head end consist to be limited when shoving backwards, and taking some units off line if necessary to meet that requirement. The point is to limit the buff force in order to avoid jacknifing the train as the units shove back.
Mostly an issue when shoving with air set. I'll withhold my opinion on that rule.
Murphy: Just for you - I drug the Driver out of bed and we headed trackside @ 5a. We were there just about 2 hours and I made a list for you. Four 2-1, two 1-2, one 2-2, one 1-1, one 2-0, one 2-3, and... one 3-0. And an Amtrak in a pear tree....(actually just a tiny bit late)
For anyone late to the party - BNSF runs lots of "motors" thru here in the geographic midwest. My list is for mostly coal trains that usually run 1-2 at the HE and whatever they want for a DPU. We have seen 9 "motors" at the HE and 2 DPUs headed west to the coal fields. Maybe they dropped some of them in a ditch on the way or maybe UP ran out of "motors"....
Anyway - the first figure is HE and the 2nd is DPU's. The 3-0 and 2-0 were definitely freight, but did see one freight that had a DPU - and that is very unusual for us.
Also watched Hulcher for a few min - cleaning up our 15 car derail. Track is all fixed and now they are just doing the mop-up - getting rid of one pretty bent gon and lots of wheel sets. Home by 8 am.
Hope they don't get too complacent, cuz right in front of where we now watch at a safe distance, our #6 track - furthest to the south and a tight curve leaving town, they have the start of a bounce - one of those where about 30-45 feet down the track, the coupler goes back into place. This is a problem area due to ground water and they have had one derail there (3 gons on their side and coal all over the place) Driver reported a broken rail in that area at another time, that they hadn't found yet, but thru binos, it was very noticeable. Cavalry came runnin'.
Who sez railroads aren't fun to watch?
Moo...
Who in their right mind gets up to watch trains at 5:00 a.m.?.... Nevermind. Is the DPU unit run at the same speed as the head end power? Is there a way to shut down one of the DPU units if you want to equalize the pwoer on both ends? Do you want it equalized?
Murphy Siding Who in their right mind gets up to watch trains at 5:00 a.m.?.... Nevermind.
Until someone with a right mind can tell you the details, I do know that as the train is leaving town right in front of us, the DPU will power up along with the HE so he can make the grade going south. (Remember, Lincoln sits in a bowl) That's with one DPU on the rear. I don't know about the 2nd one, when they have one. I have my suspicions, but won't put them in print.
Care to show a photo of this interesting lineup of power?
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ATSFGuy Care to show a photo of this interesting lineup of power?
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