Semaphore Signals

[Mookie]

And while we are on Darth Vader, can someone help me out - A passenger train, engine had a face that looked just like Darth Vader's mask. What railroad? I have the picture at home, but never seem to remember to look it up. Truly a fascinating albeit and ugly front end on an engine.

Moi

[tree68]

I believe there may some of the "Darth Vader" (triangular) signals on the former Erie (now NS/Susq) line between Hancock, NY and Binghampton. Haven't specifically looked for them, so can't be positive, but I'm pretty sure.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

No clue on the five-bulb signal head. There used to be a four-light option (one light above the other three) on CNW's horizontally-oriented color-light signals; it was a lunar light (sometimes lunar was one of the three in a normal signal; they used four lights only when all four colors could be required).

I don't have a clue on the five lamp signal, either, so can only theorize. Question, though - what are the colors? One guess might be that the top and bottom are both lunar, which would play into the relatively common practice of using a lunar above or below to modify the basic indication.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

And while we are on Darth Vader, can someone help me out - A passenger train, engine had a face that looked just like Darth Vader's mask. What railroad? I have the picture at home, but never seem to remember to look it up. Truly a fascinating albeit and ugly front end on an engine.

Moi

You aren't talking about UP's M-10000 are you?

[M636C]

In Australia, we generally have searchlight or multiple light signals, but there are a number of big yards that have manual lower quadrant semaphores (lower quadrant, stop=horizontal, clear= 45degrees below horizontal) but on some double track main lines there are upper quadrant "automatic" semaphores (stop= horizontal, clear = vertical).

In the Sydney suburban area the standard is five aspect automatic light signals, red and green above, red green and amber below, two lights lit at any time. the indications are; two red = stop, green over red = caution, next signal at stop, two green = clear.

The amber relates to junctions, and there is a terrible piece of doggerel to remember the meaning:

"When the upper yellow functions,
Look at once for turnout junctions
When the yellow is down below
Proceed ahead dead slow,
For next but one ahead, the light is red."

In certain signals, the upper green is replaced by amber to give these aspects.

In some country areas, two lights are used, and at junctions, when the diverging road is set, the lower "light" becomes a diagonal row of three amber lights. When a normal route is set, only the bottom light of the diagonal is set in red or green as appropriate.

I hope all this is clear!

Peter

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

No clue on the five-bulb signal head. There used to be a four-light option (one light above the other three) on CNW's horizontally-oriented color-light signals; it was a lunar light (sometimes lunar was one of the three in a normal signal; they used four lights only when all four colors could be required).

I don't have a clue on the five lamp signal, either, so can only theorize. Question, though - what are the colors? One guess might be that the top and bottom are both lunar, which would play into the relatively common practice of using a lunar above or below to modify the basic indication.

Larry, I wish I knew what all the colors were, and how they were stacked, but I've never stood there long enough to find out. The vantage points are kind of lousey, and like Mookie said unless you are standing almost on the tracks it's hard to see them.

By the way, I can explain why the signals are hard to see if you aren't in line with them. They use what is called a Fresnel lens (pronounced fra nel, and named after the guy who invented it) which makes the light more intense, but only in the intended direction. Signals are for the engineer's benefit, not railfan's.

[M636C]

I meant to answer Mookie's question about "Darth Vader trains.

The trains that look (to me!) most like "Darth Vader" are the most recent London to Gatwick Airport "Gatwick Express" trains. They are yellow on the ends, not black, but the shape is close!

Some streamlined steam locomotives of the 1930s also looked a bit that way!

Peter

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005
Larry, I wish I knew what all the colors were, and how they were stacked, but I've never stood there long enough to find out. The vantage points are kind of lousey, and like Mookie said unless you are standing almost on the tracks it's hard to see them.

Though I'd ask, in case somebody did know.

QUOTE:
By the way, I can explain why the signals are hard to see if you aren't in line with them. They use what is called a Fresnel lens (pronounced fra nel, and named after the guy who invented it) which makes the light more intense, but only in the intended direction. Signals are for the engineer's benefit, not railfan's.

That's why some signal heads have/had a sighting device attached....

[Mookie]

This is getting more complicated - I think the UP M10000 is the one I have in mind - thank you!

Tree - what is a sighting device?

Gotta go home and look at streamliners - there is another one that is truly like the UP M10000, that has a face only a true railfan could appreciate!

[Anonymous]

UP seems to be standardizing on a three light vertical arrangement. They have a single hood over all three lights sort like a Darth Vador cape. I know a single hood over the lights in a triangular arrangement, such as Conrail was installing on part of the PRR mainline between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg were of this type and a single hood would look like Darth.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie


Tree - what is a sighting device?

A sighting device is like a gunsight so the person installing the signal can make sure it's pointed in the right direction..
If you go out and look at a signal in the fog you can see how narrow the beam is..


They have many light signal heads in Sweden. I've seen 6 at most. These heads have 1 red, 1 yellow and the rest are green.. They're used at junctions where the number of green lights showing tells the driver which route he's lined up on.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

This is getting more complicated - I think the UP M10000 is the one I have in mind - thank you!

Tree - what is a sighting device?

Gotta go home and look at streamliners - there is another one that is truly like the UP M10000, that has a face only a true railfan could appreciate!

Jen, check out this topic I created in your honor. There's a link to a photo there.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21433

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie


Tree - what is a sighting device?

A sighting device is like a gunsight so the person installing the signal can make sure it's pointed in the right direction..
If you go out and look at a signal in the fog you can see how narrow the beam is..

Regular lineside signals are usually mounted at cab height (obviously signal bridges and dwarfs aren't). The signal is aimed at the point on the track where the engineer needs to see the signal. On tangent (straight) track, that's fairly easy. On a curve it gets a little more interesting. The beam isn't so tight that the conductor can't see it, too, but it's still pretty narrow, as Hugh says.

[mudchicken]

Aspect (of a signal). The appearance of a fixed signal conveying an indication as viewed from the direction of an approaching train; the appearance of a cab signal conveying an indication as viewed by an observer in the cab. (Railway Age's Comprehensive Railroad Dictionary)

Sighting Device: a really cheap rifle scope glued to the side of the signal head near the lens by the signal manufaturerto aim the light beam of the signal, aka-"gunsights" (Mudchicken's Abridged Field Dog Dictionary[^][^][^])

And the next person who asks me what I'm taking pictures of with my Theodolite/Transit/Total Station/Level wins the booby prize[}:)][}:)][}:)]

[:-^][:-^][:-^]

[locomutt]

MC, And all this time I thought you were taking pictures of a stick[:D][swg]

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

The triangular-style color-light wasn't terribly common. NYC and Rock Island used them; SP acquired some when it purchased the former Rock Island from Tucumcari to Topeka, and some of them were relocated onto the former EP&NE between Tucumcari and El Paso.

FWIW, a "color-light" is ANY signal that delivers its indications through colored lights, rather than physical positions. The other types are semaphores, position lights, and color position lights. A searchlight is just a type of color-light.

Mark,

Thanks for pointing out who used those triangular light signals,I just couldn't
remember. When I worked for Safetran(Tesco) we did a few design jobs for the
Penn-Central,and I remember having to incorporate some of these signals in
the job.[:)]

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

MC, And all this time I thought you were taking pictures of a stick[:D][swg]

cw: straighten the boy out, please![}:)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Aspect (of a signal). The appearance of a fixed signal conveying an indication as viewed from the direction of an approaching train; the appearance of a cab signal conveying an indication as viewed by an observer in the cab. (Railway Age's Comprehensive Railroad Dictionary)

Sighting Device: a really cheap rifle scope glued to the side of the signal head near the lens by the signal manufaturerto aim the light beam of the signal, aka-"gunsights" (Mudchicken's Abridged Field Dog Dictionary[^][^][^])

And the next person who asks me what I'm taking pictures of with my Theodolite/Transit/Total Station/Level wins the booby prize[}:)][}:)][}:)]

[:-^][:-^][:-^]

Ok - I'll ask - are you and what's my booby prize! Dinner of er....with the chicken?

[dinner]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken


And the next person who asks me what I'm taking pictures of with my Theodolite/Transit/Total Station/Level wins the booby prize[}:)][}:)][}:)]
[:-^][:-^][:-^]

Are we anywhere near Hooters?

[tree68]

<That one's gonna get me in trouble...[}:)]>

[Mookie]

Tree - we will both have to go stand in the corner! I tripped over that one a couple of times before I finally replied. Don't worry - LC is already there!

Moo

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Tree - we will both have to go stand in the corner! I tripped over that one a couple of times before I finally replied. Don't worry - LC is already there!

Moo

Stand in the corner[?] That one almost deserves Dan & Kevin's couch[:D][}:)]

[mudchicken]

That corner is getting awfully crowded, isn't it? Last one not in the corner or in the doghouse, please stand up!

[Mookie]

OK - went home and looked through 3 Streamliners books. The UP definitely had a handle on odd looking locomotives. The Aerotrain was the other one that had a face only a true die-hard fan could love. I assume the grill work on the M10000 was as much for air flow as cosmetics? And why the set up of the face on the Aerotrain ?

Mookie

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

OK - went home and looked through 3 Streamliners books. The UP definitely had a handle on odd looking locomotives. The Aerotrain was the other one that had a face only a true die-hard fan could love. I assume the grill work on the M10000 was as much for air flow as cosmetics? And why the set up of the face on the Aerotrain ?

Mookie

I believe GM turned that over to their automotive designers for the body. A 1950's Buick on the rails.

[Mookie]

I think you may be on to something....

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I believe GM turned that over to their automotive designers for the body.

Which is also what happened to the GP30....