Declining interest in web forums?

CNJ831

I've seen a lot of ups and downs in annual forum activity over the years, but the recent decline has been particularly striking.

A number of forums have gone private and are either membership only now, or else are charging a fee. That could account for some of it.  Also I have noticed a dramatic change in the "snippy-ness" factor and that might be putting people off of posting, especially newbies and novices who are looking for information. From the other perspective of the "been there & done that"ers, they may be simply burning out for the lack of anything new to talk about (obviously they're missing out on my "Philosophy Friday" posts ). On other forums, which we won't name but just nod knowingly, there seems to be quite a bit of censorship and interference from the moderators that make it disconcerting. Of course some boards seem to have a pretty good balance and moderate in moderation. Another thing that might be affecting the forum situation is the economy-- after a long drawn-out economic struggle, many people who are either out-of-work or under-worked may have simply run out of money to pay for an internet connection, or else enjoy the "luxury" of being able to sit and participate in forums versus working their fourth or fifth job at 7/11 or wherever to make ends meet. Finally, since spring is here-- perhaps there are many young men just pursuing what comes naturally.... trains! Perhaps everybody's out walking the tracks???

It could happen... 

John

 I've noticed it on the train forums as well, and to a lesser extent on the car forums I'm on. I think it has more to do with the economy than anything. People have been cutting expenses and the first thing to go is hobby money. If people aren't active in the hobby, their probably not on the forums as much.

John,Yes I notice that has well..Even I am spending less time on forums-about 2 vs.3 hours not long ago.I am more active on the Atlas forum and here then I am the others.Oddly these are the first forums I joined.

I have notice my computer time has dropped sufficiently as well.

Ya I have noticed. Maybe it's because of the springtime, everyone is gettting out of the house after a long cold winter.

Sure hope it picks backup......

I could blame it on economic conditions, big warts on the left small toe or a lot of other things. But, I think on the public forums, the rudeness in the way people answer questions or make comments cause people to just go away rather than be made a fool of, told their style of modeling isn't the correct way, their choices of products are dumb, they should be buying something else, or doing it a different way, or looking for a different product and which products are correct based on the person's ideas making the comments.  The Atlas forum had a run of that over ExactRail, numberings, car ends, etc. which caused many threads to be locked.

However, society in general has become contentious at all levels, government and private sector.  Being a retired pastor I can tell horror stories about things that have happened in churches I served where one or more try to run things the way they percieve they sould be and run off anyone who disagrees.  Since I also worked in the computer industry for many years, I saw the same things happen there, so I chalk it up to an attitude of wanting to be superior to others.  I also think that the economic conditions play a big part, as we watch our nation, which most of us are proud of, start to slide into a second rate status being replaced by the new big kids on the block.

Maybe we need to smile more, pass off insults, try harder to get along, and it might even improve the quality of our hobby activities, which after all, is to be a stress release, a getting away place in our little world and brain from all the bad things.  We need to work harder to keep the outside things away from enjoying our hobby in our own way, without fear of being put down.  Just my thoughts.

Bob

I find myself searching for topics that are relevant to the stage of my layout.  This often ends with me reading older threads from years ago.  I also don't reply to philosophical topics very often any more.  Not that topics like this aren't interesting, I just don't have much to say!  I have noticed a drop in forum participation on the few forums I hang out at though.

I've been involved in message boards since the late 1990s.  I've noticed a decline in interest maybe about four or five years ago, which seemed to coincide with the rise of blogging.

Other than that, I think a kind of fatigue sets in.  You get tired of answering the same questions, repeating the same arguments, and fighting the same battles. 

As mentioned above, it seems that the economy is a factor.  One friend of mine is itching to build a layout but is having a challenge finding a job.  My LHS's owner, inspite of his good service, is struggling to survive.

This may sound odd, but I suggest that you guys consider trying this: 

I check out quite a number of railfan and model railroad related YouTube videos.  After posting my comments/compliments/critiques on the vids I sometimes strike up a back & forth dialogue with some of the video posters, especially modelers. I always ask them if they're members of this forum. The majority of them told me "No".  They, especially newbs, were either vaguely aware of this forum or not aware of it at all.  I then invite them to join and from my understanding, a few have.  To invite them, I send them a private email since "Trains.com" won't show up on the actual vid page due to the YouTube software that blocks weblinks.  So, if out of 5 people that you invite one joins, then that's another contributing modeler we can share with/ learn from on this forum.

(BTW:  I've also run into a couple of our forum members too, including C&O Fan, who post vids under different names on the "Tube". )  

Pastorbob is spot on. A troll or two will run off a newbie in a hurry, and this online community, like any other, has its share. I own and operate a message board relating to sports at my alma mater, and it is only through a vigorous system of moderators and internal policing by the "regulars" that such people are not allowed to ruin the site's atmosphere - they are gone before they can get up a head of steam.

Bob wroteI could blame it on economic conditions, big warts on the left small toe or a lot of other things. But, I think on the public forums, the rudeness in the way people answer questions or make comments cause people to just go away rather than be made a fool of, told their style of modeling isn't the correct way, their choices of products are dumb, they should be buying something else, or doing it a different way, or looking for a different product and which products are correct based on the person's ideas making the comments.  The Atlas forum had a run of that over ExactRail, numberings, car ends, etc. which caused many threads to be locked.

-------------------------------------------------------

I agree with that observation..

I am very leary of posting pictures any more because some wanna be expert will pm me and tell me how to improve my pictures by buying a $1500.00 camera and another $300.00 for lights,lenses etc or what's wrong with my model or its a "foobie".

Suffice it to say my replies wasn't-huh,mmm,shall we say "polite"?

I'd say there is an annual cycle which picks up in the late fall, peaks just after the New Year, and then starts to trail off again.  From some of the periodic "when do you get the most layout time?" threads, it seems that the winter is prime-time for trains.  Some of us disappear completely over the summer, with layouts dormant, only to re-appear as temperatures drop again.

I'm the odd duck who does most of his modeling in the summer.  I'm a skier in the winter, and I don't care for the heat, so when the sun shines bright on my Massachusetts home, I go to the trainroom and turn on the AC.

 Yes it doe's seem like the forum use has gone down some.I don't think that the economy has a lot to do with it though. I have been out of work for seven months. The internet is one of my biggest tools, for job searching. I now find that I spend much more time looking at the forums, wanting to participate. We have to remember that their is a limited number of modelers out there. I am sure a lot don't even know about this great tool, to help them out in their modeling. I took me a long time before I really became active. We do have some very condescending folks on the forums. But you will always find that everywhere you go. I do notice that a lot of questions are answered so well by the first reply that it does not need another response.I have yet to be bored by the forums. Now my only problem is, look for work, or work on the railroad? I'll let you guys guess which is going to win today! I do have an interview to prep for tomorrow, just so you know that I am not just a lazy train bum!

Good luck on your interview, Phil!

I'd also add that there are *more* places than ever to weigh in with your virtual two cents ... diluting the "talent pool" somewhat, so to speak.

All good answers. The eonomy  has changed the hobby. How many new releases are there? How many need pre-order/pre-paid?

 Boredom prevails, Alton said it best, too many times are there reduntant questions.

 Even on the craftsman forums it's slow. how many times do you need to see a wooden structure built? I think the hobby is shrinking due to age and economic woes.

Rudeness may drive some away, but that's been going on for ever, even in busier times

.mike h.

I certainly agree that there can be a certain amount of snippiness (if that is even a word) at times.  There are also a large number of railroaders who go out of their way to be helpful.   I think part of the problem is that many new railroaders never were exposed to building things as a child.  The demise of the local hobby shop has left them with less access to patient mentors to guide their progress.  Model Railroading is FUN.  Whether we count rivets or try to see how fast our Hi-Rail loco will go without flipping off the track laid on carpet, or anything in between, if we have fun with it, that's what really matters.  We need to build our hobby with an understanding that those who ask questions that some may regard as silly, are looking for assistance from those who might know.  If we don't, I fear our hobby will be limited to those who have huge pocketbooks, to buy limited productions of rolling stock and locos, and those who have machine shops and the skills to use them.  Does anyone else remember using expended shot gun shells to make wheels?  Thanks for the opportunity to vent    

Nice post, Steam. I agree that the "my way is the only *real* way" folks are not helping this board or the hobby in general.

pastorbob

Maybe we need to smile more, pass off insults, try harder to get along, and it might even improve the quality of our hobby activities, which after all, is to be a stress release, a getting away place in our little world and brain from all the bad things.  Bob

Agreed

The other thing not mentioned is forums are a trend.  Granted they've been around a while, but they will shrink substantially over the next few years.  They're great for sharing some thoughts and ideas but for me I'd rather communicate with a few individuals in person than a global group of strangers.

AltonFan

Other than that, I think a kind of fatigue sets in.  You get tired of answering the same questions, repeating the same arguments, and fighting the same battles. 

Personal opinion - I think AltonFan's reason would be the primary cause.  Used to be I wouldn't miss a day.  Now, after a few days of intensive forum visiting, I'm tired of it and will let it go for a week with a feeling of "I've seen this all before."  I can predict what a lot of frequent posters are going to say.

Cause #2:  Departure of the master model railroaders from many forums, and replacement with RTR folks.  The beginners all ask the same layout building questions, or RTR quality questions.  Very seldom are there any threads on model building, whether kits or scratch - Darth Santa Fe being a great exception.

Cause #3:  Plain wrong information being passed as fact.

Cause #4:  Folks taking offense at snippy remarks, being told to search, or just not getting the replies they wanted or expected.

I don't think the economy is the cause.  When I was unemployed 2007-2008, I probably spent more time on the forums.  Most of us are in or seeking jobs that require some computer skills, and require some Internet work/research in the job hunt.  I don't think the Internet connection is one of the 1st things a model railroader gives up when he is unemployed.  My experience is that spending on models and layout will supplies will shut down first; the forums provide a way to stay active in the hobby with no money to spend.

my thoughts

Fred W 

A lot of interesting and thought provoking input so far. It should be enlightening also to see what additional folks have to add over the course of this evening.

MisterBeasley has called attention to the presumed annual cycle of forum activity, to which I'll add that the true peak in number of posts/posters used to occur during the summertime when younger hobbyists were out of school. However, as far as I can recall, that usual influx wasn't very evident last year for the first time.

Another item worth mentioning which seems to point to an even longer term trend in participation is that this forum's number of registered members is currently less than 1/3 of what it was say half a dozen years ago! This makes me think that there was really a novelty factor involved in the early years of model railroading websites and that for many, the shine has worth off. As someone mentioned upstream, perhaps there's a burnout factor as well. In that light, as I've noted on occasion previously, there are very few participants on this forum today who date their membership from the beginnings of the Trains.com forums, suggesting that long-term interest in any of these sites may be limited among hobbyists.

CNJ831

 Well in the four years I have been around, I think the numbers of members seems to have gone up. It is not unusual to see 50 members online at a given moment, whereas four years ago 30 seemed to be a good number. That being said I do think the number of postings is on the decline.

 I am posting less as I find my eyes rolling heavenward having to defend things I have done that just don't matter. Go ahead and ask why I did something the way I did, but don't tell me I am doing it wrong if it doesn't matter one way or another.

One example. I showed a pic of my Buss wire and terminal blocks using 12 Gauge wire. A couple of people hung me out to dry on using 12 Gauge saying it was overkill and a waste of money                       ( yadda,yadda,yadda) If they had asked me WHY I have used 12 Gauge I would have told them that it was because I got 600 feet of it for free. I was not telling people to use 12 Gauge wire. I was showing how to Daisy chain. Do I need to defend this to people who seem to berate many members on everything they do from weathering to mountain building when no opinions have been asked for.

 I will continue to enjoy this forum and participate. But I do think twice before responding sometimes. 

                                                                   Brent

 I am going to have to agree that it is the economy and the time of year.  I am usually doing my modeling around December through March.  I do some in the summer, but I have other interests that are only can be done in the summer such as boating and camping.

John,Another thought crossed my mind..

Maybe many has out grown this basic forum? I mean once a modeler learns the basics he/she may want to move on to bigger and better things like a discussion group or a scale only forum.I know  N Scalers doesn't meet here to discuss new  N products,faulty products or modeling-I go else where to engage in such activities..The same can apply to HO and HO products of course the same can be said about any modeling activity including prototypical operation or advanced layout planing.

Of course a forum is only as good as the information or modeling techniques shared by its members through topics...

One example. I showed a pic of my Buss wire and terminal blocks using 12 Gauge wire. A couple of people hung me out to dry on using 12 Gauge saying it was overkill and a waste of money                       ( yadda,yadda,yadda) If they had asked me WHY I have used 12 Gauge I would have told them that it was because I got 600 feet of it for free. I was not telling people to use 12 Gauge wire. I was showing how to Daisy chain. Do I need to defend this to people who seem to berate many members on everything they do from weathering to mountain building when no opinions have been asked for.

Yes, the need to tell you what you did *wrong* is hereditary to anonymous mesasage-board formats, sad to say. All gets back to pastorbob's comment about a lack of civility, especially online.

I'm a newer member here and on other railway/modelling forums, simply because I only recently returned to the hobby. I am, however, not a new member to forums in general and have been an active member on other forums for years.

I think Fred hit the nail on the head, particularly with his second point. You can only answer the same question so many times before you begin to lose interest in helping out. There is a trend, mostly with younger people, to ask rather than research, despite Google, and this trend isn't limited to this forum. I don't mind trying to help out, especially if someone has tried to search out information and been unsuccessful, for whatever reason, but continuously answering the same question is out. I skip those threads.

Another reason people might spend less time on forums is that it is time taken away from modelling or running trains. This is the case with me right now. My answer here is because I find this discussion interesting and can hopefully contribute.

The other point that was clear was the injection of rudeness, snippyness, personal attacks, lack of respect, etc., call it what you will. Nothing, absolutely nothing, will chase people away faster than these types of posts. We are here to have fun and share ideas.

I live in a model railroad wilderness and must rely on the net for most of my information sharing, learning, and purchasing. I have met one skilled local modeller who has become a good friend and who has helped me tremendously in my reentry to the hobby, but the net is still a primary resource for information sharing. There are others in the area, but I haven't met any of them yet.

A computer is absolutely necessary in the hunt for a job in this day and age. I was forced to retrain for medical reasons and finished schooling in December 2008. I have had a casual job in my chosen field for over a year, but am still looking for full time work. Without a computer I wouldn't be aware of 90% of the jobs being posted. Computers are one of the last things to be dumped when one is strapped for cash and out of work. Good luck to all those searching.

Anyway, that's my 3.5 cents worth. Time to get back to modelling.

I can only speak for myself, but John, in the time I have spent on the forums since joining five or six in a short period between 2005 and 2006, I have become saturated.  It is my nature...I do that to all interests, particularly if they are intense ones for me.

This means two things: my learning is now sharply focused, and I don't need to devour every thread and post in them, and it also means I have become much more efficient in my use of time at the computer.  I haven't added any forums, no yahoo lists or whatever, so when I come to any hobby places I spend only a few minutes where I would have spend an hour or more.

Facebook has taken over for a lot of people, and someone mentioned blogging...all meant to feed the ego and shout, "Hey, look at me!"  But, to be as objective as I can be, in terms of their social value and nature, they appeal much more to women than to men...or so it seems in my circles.  Blogging is more in tune with the male psych, and there's lots of it to do...apparently.  Not for me.

As Larry and others have pointed out, there are flavours or cultures from place to place.  The Atlas forum is about as rabid as they come.  Sure, some great modelling and photography, and some witty and sharp guys with good manners, but it also seems to be a haven, maybe more a haunt, for some truly marginal personalities.  Then there is the opposite, places like modelrailroadforums and trainboard...tightly run ships.  Or, the vaunted railroad line forums, arguably one of the best and slickest run boards out there.  If there is disagreement, the mods point to the door and ask them to sort it out off line.  But there is next to no disagreement, and certainly the chest thumping doesn't seem to pop up in an in-your-face kind of way.

It used to be that clubs and associations were THE thing to do, and at which to be seen.  Now, who goes to clubs?  Few... usually older males who have had a history of belonging to organized groups.  The younger generation seems to abhor regulation and direction, and certainly having to sit in a chair with others a la classroom and be in listening mode while an older male pontificates about something or other.  For them, it is mostly information seeking, and if they get their question answered, you don't see a lot of them much after that.

-Crandell

I am active on several forums, and not just MR/train related, and I have noticed the same thing across them all over the winter: lots less of the regular posters posting for whatever reason, more snippyness (sp?), more one timers who seem to get the answer they wanted and then don't come back, etc.

I wonder about the economy argument since as long as you have your internet connection, then the forums are free (for the most part) and can be a way to help ride out tougher times.  Unless things are so tough that people are dropping their connections too?

CNJ831

Another item worth mentioning which seems to point to an even longer term trend in participation is that this forum's number of registered members is currently less than 1/3 of what it was say half a dozen years ago!

To my knowledge, membership in the forum does not "expire."  Once you join, you're in the database forever, so the number only goes up.  But, a few years back Kalmbach did a major forum upgrade, and as I recall they did not carry over the member database.  We all had to re-register.  This is probably the cause of the big drop in reported forum membership - thousands of inactive accounts were gone.

British Columbia is weighing in heavily in this conversation - two from the island and one from Merritt! Good for you guys!