I suspect I am about to as a very under-stated question with lots of side-issues and subjective answers.... but here goes anyway...
How does one develop a locomotive roster?
I'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad. And I'm certain there are about as many approaches to this as there are railroads. And I'm pretty sure that there is at least some measure of serendipity at play as well.
So how does a novice Model Railroader know which locomotives to select? What features to look for-- or add-on later? What details are specific to a single locomotive versus typically added to all/most locomotives of a class or a fleet, versus what all/most railroads did? How do you go about selecting specific locomotives for the roster?
How does one know, for instance, that a 2-6-4 Pacific is not generally a good choice for hauling long coal drags through the mountains of West Virginia? Or conversely that a 2-8-8-8-2 Triplex is probably not the best lineup for the top-of-the-line premier passenger service...?
The Devil's Always in the Details...
It seems to me, pursuant to answering this question for my own model railroads, that there are a number of factors that are relevant:
And then there are the specific technical / engineering considerations that I personally have little or no knowledge of, or even much clue how to obtain the requisite information, aside from simply asking.
I think its a safe bet that, generally speaking, pretty much everybody's railroad, whether real or in model form, consists of some subset of the above factors. Thus it is likely that these factors provide, at least, a pretty good starting point and basis for locomotive selection. Therefore I think its a reasonable assumption to state that most real locomotive selections can ultimately be whittled down further into a few generalized observations along the following lines:
Location, Location, Location!
Another primary consideration that would greatly influence the selection is the type of terrain and service the locomotive would experience in its regular operation. Railroads operating in eastern mountainous territories needed different types of locomotives than did railroads operating on the western plains. Likewise a railroad operating in a major metropolitan city will have different considerations than a lightweight belt line. Railroads with lots of tight curves and track grades need locomotives with smaller wheelbases, or else articulated frames, in order to negotiate the curves. At the same time however, those locomotives would need to develop a larger amount of tractive effort in order to haul cars up and down the grades. That would in turn influence the size of the driving wheels and pistons, along with the size and shape of the boiler and associated boiler pressure.
Whereas in contrast, railroads operating in flatter, more "open" terrain with broader curves, could choose pretty much any locomotive style they wanted-- and could afford-- including locomotives with longer wheelbases that could offer more power at the railhead-- whether delivered as speed or improved tractive effort-- which meant for the railroad gains in either overall travel time, good for passenger service, or else longer / higher-tonnage freight trains and a better competitive profile.
Researching Online...
While researching this question, I ran across the following site which offered some useful opinions and insights into the question:
I thought it was a pretty good read recommend it to anyone considering building up their roster. But in my reading, it seemed more of a starting point, generating more questions than answers, though it does give general advice which seems helpful.
That was the only web site with good solid information that I was able to find right off. I'm sure there are probably others and I'd sure like to know about them if anybody has links they could supply. I'll edit this article and insert them here if I receive any.
EDIT: Steinjr has helpfully contributed these links to previous threads, here on the MRR web site, that ennumerate some of the choices that other people have made.
"Here is an old thread about what some people's engine rosters are like: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspxThe thread mentioned above contains references to two previous "what's in your roster" threads:Thread from 2007 with 166 answers: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/10254.aspxThread from November 2008 with 78 replies: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/142253/1583513.aspxHave a look at the old threads, and see if you can work out how people have built their rosters :-)Smile,Stein"
"Here is an old thread about what some people's engine rosters are like: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspxThe thread mentioned above contains references to two previous "what's in your roster" threads:
Thread from 2007 with 166 answers: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/10254.aspx
Thread from November 2008 with 78 replies: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/142253/1583513.aspx
Have a look at the old threads, and see if you can work out how people have built their rosters :-)
Smile,Stein"
The Class-I Railroads
Most Class-I railroads, and apparently many Class-II's as well, manufactured, or caused to be manufactured, their "own" locomotives, or else used generic designs-- the USRA designs for instance-- and then customized with their own features and specifications which tended to create a "family look" across large portions of the railroad's fleet of locomotives. Thus for knowledgeable observers, it was often fairly easy to tell which locomotive belonged to which railroad even without seeing the name just by recognizing elements and features that were common to a particular road.
Typical items that a railroad might change could be the headlight and bell placement, the pilot style or the type of boiler or firebox used. The Pennsylvania Railroad, for example, was well-known for using Belpaire type fireboxes which gave their locomotives a very distinctive hump on top of the boiler near the cab.
The only other major railroad to use Belpaire fireboxes was the Great Northern. So it was a pretty safe bet-- depending on your locale-- if you saw a locomotive sporting a Belpaire firebox, you knew which railroad it belonged to.
Other items that were commonly switched around include the generator placement, different types of tenders: local, long-haul, etc., and the fuel type: coal, oil, etc. Then these specifications would have been applied throughout the extent of the railroad to all, or most, locomotives of similar class.
When you have a lot of locomotives to service and keep track of, its important to minimize the number of conditional factors that add expense, can cause problems, or introduce delays or errors into the workflow.
While there were still exceptions based on engineering considerations, or market forces, or government interference, the railroads were keen on standardization wherever possible as a way of trimming costs and simplifying maintenance to the greatest extent possible. The Pennsylvania Railroad in particular took the concept of "standardization" to new heights and formed laboratories that were unprecedented for their time to test all manner of things and generate "standardized preferences" based on the results.
As evidenced by the many discussions put forth here, on the MR web site, there are any number of myriad details to consider, even in addition to the various general considerations and factors outlined above! One thing though that stands out as a principle selection criterion-- at least as much as any other, and whether implemented in actual practice or not-- was the goal of minimizing the number of different locomotive types and manufacturers to the whatever extent possible in order to reduce the number of maintenance personnel and spare parts needed to service the fleet.
And this would have been especially true in the steam era as steam engines were notoriously "individual", even when they were supposedly "standardized", due to the large number of "wear items" involved.
The "Other Guys"... But what about smaller railroads? The short lines... the mom & pop railroads barely eking out a living-- what criteria do they use for selection? Money? The "el-cheapness" factor? That'd be my guess-- whatever is available the cheapest at the time of selection that will do the job.
Clinchfield / Haysi Railroad
I read an interesting blurb in a book about the Clinchfield railroad about a creative solution that was employed at one of the mines they serviced-- it needed a shifter / pusher engine for extremely light duty, moving coal hoppers around the two or three tracks they had off the mainline. To meet this need they purchased an old 'F'-style "B" unit from the Clinchfield railroad to do the job. The blurb pointed out that the "B" units had "Hostler" controls in them that were satisfactory for the simple job of shuffling around the cars. I thought it was pretty clever, and it certainly met the requirement of "cheap".
"Clinchfield Country" Web SItehttp://clinchfieldcountry.com/photos/haysi.htm
The Montour Railroad
The Montour railroad, one of the roads I've been researching for my own layout, standardized on small diesel switch engines as it transitioned out of the steam era. SW7's / SW9's and the like were the standard order of the day which proved to be a good selection as it reduced the operating and maintenance costs, maintenance personnel, and the number of in-stock spare parts needed to service the locomotives. They had short wheelbases, 4-wheeled trucks, and could be mixed-and-matched (MU'd) in various combinations to achieve the motive power requirements for any given run. The Montour owed its existance primarily to the coal and mineral customers it served in a very small, but profitable, belt around the outskirts of Pittsburgh PA.
The Sumpter Valley Railroad
One specific type of railroad industry that had lots of "detail" options is the logging and mountain coal / minerals railroad. These railroads often used Shays, Climaxes or other geared locomotives that were as unique as the trainmen who ran them. Operating in remote mountain or back-woods regions (or both!), geared locomotives were often outfitted with spark arrestors, fire-fighting equipment, deer antlers, and an odd assortment of on-board spare parts, tools, and other assorted paraphenalia related to operations or field maintenance. Additionally, their pilots were often replaced with simple wooden beams and their cabs "modified" to suit the climate-- more open in southern climes and closed-off in the colder regions.
The Sumpter Valley Railroad Web Site: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mydickfamily/locomotives_of_the_svrr.htm
Establishing the "Family Look"Getting back to the "Family Look" aspect touched upon above, one of the specific questions I have in developing my own roster, is what details are important? How do I go about deciding what "details" would have been ordered or applied by the specific railroad that would achieve the "look". I realize that the railroads did not ordinarily order or detail locomotives with the specific intent of "creating a look", rather they had a series of "operational preferences" that dictated this detail or that-- in general.
Though once specified, I suspect the railroads wanted to "standardize" on parts and equipment and so ordered the same or similar types of components for their various locomotives, where applicable, which by defacto, created a distinctive "look" for the railroad. So the question really here-- especially for the modeler not connected with the railroad industry-- how do you know what details are available or might have been chosen for your particular railroad?
Any Color You Want as Long as its Black!
But what if you're not modeling the Pennsy or the Southern Pacific, the Santa Fe, or one of the other major railroads that the various model railroading manufacturers have cranked-out model after model for, what do you do? In addition to the design and selection criteria put to the "real" railroads to consider, you also have the practical availability, considerations and / or limitations put forth by the model manufacturers as well-- not to mention your own modeling skills for follow-on details and your budget to consider. As the "Brass Hat" of your own railroad, plus being "Chief Engineer" (plus Cook and Bottle Washer), you have both at the same time a seemingly unending selection of models to choose from, as well as a very constrained selection of models to choose from upon, closer inspection.
My Questions for Today:With so many factors to consider, technical details, utilitarian preferences, and plain serendipity to consider, how does a modeler pick and choose and make any kind of informed selection? Where does one begin? What details are important to consider? Which are less important? How important is a "family look"? How important is a "plausible selection"? How many locomotives should a railroad own? Are locomotives bound to a particular district or region? Or do they (all or some) travel all over the extent of the railroad? How does one best select models to represent their railroad's choices?As usual, I'm looking forward to your opinions...What is the best way to develop a locomotive roster?John
I'm not very scientific about it. If I see a locomotive i like, I buy it and then I figure out how it fits into my layout and its story.
The things I like are slide-valve steam and shays (small ones - class A - 25T or less). I like them to have character and that's hard to describe, but I know it when I see it. I also have a "thing" for rail busses, especially ones that look like back-shop projects (lots of character). Finally, I prefer brass, so I buy mine used and fix them up.
I also like to buy distressed brass models and breath new life into them. These also end up on my layout.
I also have a low bridge that all locos must pass below, so there are some that I decide against just because they are too tall.
I have one loco that is sort of out of character for me: An NWSL 0-6-0. It's more modern than I usually go for, but it was once owned by Lynn Westcott. As editor of Model Railroader, Westcott had a huge influence on me and the joy I find in the hobby. I bought this loco just because of the connection to him.
For me, I use my heart more than my head when I pick out locomotives.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
jwhittenI'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad.
You asked for my opinion, John...From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum. I'm going to move it there.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstagejwhittenI'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad.You asked for my opinion, John...From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum. I'm going to move it there.Tom
Tom
It is *not* simply a "prototype" question at all. There is quite a bit more to the issue than what would the prototype do?
John
During my 36 years in this hobby, I have at times attempted to emulate prototypical practice regarding motive power selections--even attempted to keep to "just one railroad" or "just one era".
All it ever did was make me unhappy and frustrated.
I now buy what I like, which includes big time mainline power only. I don't care much for switchers or branch line motive power. It has its place--just not on my layout.
I'm way too young, but the ultimate monsters of steam rule my rails...and a professionally weathered Stewart PC Alco C-628 just because I had to have one for old times' sake.
John, why don't you write a book or something?
Mark
jwhitten What's a poor modeler to do...?
Whatever you like - on your layout, you get to make the decisions
Here is an old thread about what some people's engine rosters are like: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspxThe thread mentioned above contains references to two previous "what's in your roster" threads:
Smile,Stein
jwhittenWith so many factors to consider, technical details, utilitarian preferences, and plain serendipity to consider, how does a modeler pick and choose and make any kind of informed selection? Where does one begin? What details are important to consider? Which are less important? How important is a "family look"? How important is a "plausible selection"? How many locomotives should a railroad own? Are locomotives bound to a particular district or region? Or do they (all or some) travel all over the extent of the railroad? How does one best select models to represent their railroad's choices?
To begin, pick an era/date, a location, and a railroad.
Details, details, details...
Family look is very important (unless chosen railroad acquired a hodge podge of locomotives).
Plausibility is very important.
Acquire as many locomotives as it pleases (they don't all need to be on the layout at the same time).
The "stiff" and heavy locomotives don't venture on the branchline.
Best to select locomotives as said at the beginning.
That's all there is to it.
Pick a prototype. Pick an era. Pick an area.
Get a list of the engines they used in your chosen area in your chosen era.
Try to find those engines.
I model the W&N in 1900-1905. Wisswesser's "Locomotives of the Reading and Philadelphia & Reading" has an alltime roster which includes all of the W&N engines. There are a half dozen pictures of the engines in the book, plus lots of other pictures of similar engines. The NP F-1 2-8-0 is the same locomotive as 2 W&N engines. There is a drawing of a W&N 4-4-0 in Kalmbach Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia and Gem made a P&R I-5 2-8-0, Mantua makes something close to a B-8 0-6-0.
Run trains.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I model one line of a multi-line system. There are other modelers who do this, but I think of the entire railroad. So that makes it harder. I don't just have to think about what I'm modeling, but the entire railroad.
Modern shortline, several lines in CT, NY, and NJ, several locals, two daily intermodals.
Let's start with what I'm modeling. There's a local, the main shops for the system, and a (rather short) daily intermodal. Ok, so that's one road switcher for the local, a switcher for the shops, and two road switchers for the intermodal.
Now let's look at the rest of the system. There's an intermodal line between a CSX yard and a large port in New York. Okay, four SD40-2s for that. On second thought, add in a fifth, so there's a replacement. And just to mix it up, make two of them SD40-2Ws, and we can justify that by saying they're for safety.In Connectuct, there's a short branch, so we need a road switcher for that. There's also a branch in NJ, so another switcher there.Can't forget about MOW, so a few geeps for that.
Since it's a modern railroad, we'll say the three states each funded the purchase of a genset.
So in CT, we have one genset running the branch there.In NY, there's the four SDs (5 with the extra) and a genset for the intermodal service.In NJ, there's two GP40-2s for the intermodal, a genset for one local, a switcher for the other local, and a switcher for the shops.There's also three GP9ms for MOW.
The railroad started out with the three GP9ms for two branch lines.Four GP50s were purchased for the NY intermodal service.Two GP40-2s were purchased for service increases.Three SW1500s were purchased, one for parts, and two rebuilt.Three gensets purchased for service increases.Five SD40-2s purchased to replace GP50s (fate of GP50s currently unknown)[Over time, the GP9ms were replaced and were used exclusively in MOW service).
So there's 19 locos (4 stored, only 15 active) for a railroad that operates two intermodal trains, and three locals, as well as a shop switcher and MOW.
IMO, that's a pretty decent roster. And the good news is there's only 4 locos that actuall need to be modeled, although NJT and NS come into play, but that's completely different.
My Model Railroad: Tri State RailMy Photos on Flickr: FlickrMy Videos on Youtube: YoutubeMy Photos on RRPA: RR Picture Archives
One layout, three different philosophies at work.
The obvious question about 3 is, Why not just use the more powerful JNR locos? - answered by the supertight curves on the TTT. The railroad is embargoed to all but one class of JNR loco (C12 class 2-6-2T,) all modern (20 meter length) passenger cars and all long freight cars.
So, do I actually own all the locos I seem to have. Yup! Of course, I've been accumulating them by ones and twos for forty-five years now.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - my way)
I buy any S scale locomotive the Ma&Pa had in 1953. Out of 4 diesels, 6 steam engines, and 2 gas electrics, I have the 4 diesels (SW1, 2 NW2's, SW9) and 2 2-8-0 steam engines. I also have the 2-8-0 engine scrapped in 1952. I also buy engines that appeal to me, so I have a B&O 2-8-0 steam engine, PRR GG1, PRR SW1 diesel, C&O SW9 diesel, and a generic 2-6-0.
In general, I am following the Ma&Pa of 1953, but I don't let it get in the way of buying engines (and rolling stock) that appeal to me.
Enjoy
Paul
I should note that my motive power roster keeps changing as my interests and current financial state change. My old roster posts are now outdated, and I'll have other engines soon that were pre-ordered, so my roster remains rather "fluid".
An MTH 4-6-6-4 will stay, as will a Bowser/Stewart Alco C-628, and likely the Spectrum K-4 (it's a great value and good to run for grabby guests especially children).
First I enjoy these 'Philosophy Friday' topics.
Here's how I developed my C&HV roster..First C&HV is owned by CDB Industries which owns a family of short lines..The roots of CDBI can be traced to the Cumberland,Dickensonville & Bristol Ry...When the CD&B dieselized it did so with 4 axle EMDs, 4 and 6 axle Alcos and FM yard switchers but,as the years went by it turned more and more to EMD..Today CDBI's family of short lines is 100% 4 axle EMD Geeps.
Why EMD?
The upper management wanted to streamline the maintenance shops and keep parts from one locomotive manufacturer instead of several..This saved money in maintenance stores operation.
Also CDBI replaced old worn locomotives such as GP7/9,GP18/20s with with new GP38-2s,GP40-2s and GP50s.CDBI also leases 4 axle EMD locomotives by "power by the hour" lease agreement..CDBI maintains a small fleet of SW1000 and SW1500 swtchers.
CDBI has plans on leasing several SD40-2s for CD&B,KC and C&LE unit train operations.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
tstage jwhittenI'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad.You asked for my opinion, John...From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum. I'm going to move it there.Tom
Tom,Indeed it is a model related topic since it deals with developing a model roster in fact some of the hobby's leading operation gurus such as Tony Koester,Bill Darnaby and Eric Brooman has discuss this very topic in the pages of MR.
To the Moderators of this Forum
I would like to take a moment to thank you for your kindness and sensitivity.
It meant a lot to me.
Thank you very much.
The best way to develop a locomotive roster is to get ahold of a real locomotive roster of a railroad that roughly matches what you want to model.
For myself, it's easy. I model the New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad...all of it. My layout is just between Boston and Providence, but I still buy the occasional NH electric loco (normally found no closer than 100 miles of Providence). I collect all NH loco models. Since I model the mainline, I can easily justify all of the non-electric locos appearing on my layout depending on the era I'm modeling (which some day will vary from steam to diesel).
When I started, I added up all the NH locos they had, and started doing percentage calculations for each engine type. The largest fleets of diesels on the NH were the 65 S-1's, 60 DL-109's, 60 FL9's, 45 RS-3's, 30 GP9's, 30 FA-1's, 27 PA-1's, and 26 U25B's. Oddly enough, these are the locos that I have multiple models of. The more rare locos...I don't have too many of. It's pretty easy when you pick one railroad to model.
Doing it from scatch for a "home road" layout is, IMHO, harder to construct. Sure, you can get anything you want, but making it logical (if that's your goal) is much harder because you have to have considerable knowledge of what the real locos are for and how they were used. Following a specific prototype roster is much, much easier. Collecting that prototype roster is generally more expensive, but it can be rewarding.
Paul A. Cutler III
Since I'm modelling CSX within the last 10 years, I've been able to get ahold of several online resources that have CSX locomotive rosters. I also correlate that information with pictures from the area I'm modelling (CSX Dothan Subdivision, between Montgomery and Dothan), along with getting out to the tracks and actually seeing what's providing motive power on the trains. I also have to take into account that in the area that I'm modeling I've also got two shortline interchanges and a railcar repair facility to model. But according to the research that I've done I can sufficiently model the shortlines with 4-axle GP's (that's what their loco rosters consist of) and the railcar facility doesn't appear to have an engine of its own. From there I've been able to develop a roster.
Of course the roster is going to be ever-evolving as CSX retires some engines, or brings other engines out of storage for duty, so I buy the engines that "fit" in my timeline and then rotate them out as I see fit, since that is how they seem to actually run the trains. One day the locals are powered with EVO's, next day its a vernerable SD40-2 doing the job, so you can never really know with what I'm modelling.
tstage From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum. I'm going to move it there.
From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum. I'm going to move it there.
I've stopped worrying about what thread belongs to what particular subforum. Anyway, since "we" aren't responsible for selecting prototype locomotive rosters and we aren't discussing how prototype railroads do it, how could this thread be construed as a prototype topic?
One of the things that attracted me to the Western Maryland is the fact that it had a roster that you could really get your head around. It was a railroad with two distinct personalities: A winding mountainous Appalachian coal hauler, as well as a fleet footed bridge route, competing for high value freight based on coordinated connections to the east and west.
As such, it had a pretty diverse fleet, but not a terribly large one. Outside of the ubiquitous F units and GP-9's, they stuck to small batches of specific locomotives that were matched to specific jobs. This also was the practice during the days of steam.
Another factor that was a pleasant surprise, was the availability of many of the key models in N scale. Previously I was trying to model Conrail in the late 70's, which I thought would be easy due to the rainbow of paintouts, and the vast and varied fleet it inherited from its bankrupt predecessors... A lot could be found, to be sure, but several signature locomotives were missing, and in some cases, still are.
But the WM presented itself with GP-9's, FA-2's, GP-40's, RS-3's and even BL-2's early on... You had to paint and letter them, but the models were available. I was still on the fence, though, when Atlas brought out their excellent SD-35 in 1999. The first run was offered in Conrail blue, and WM red white and black... Decisions decisions... I ended up ordering the WM models, and I've never looked back. I sold off all of the post 1973 stuff I had, and started accumulating a substantial Western Maryland fleet. My prayers were finally answered when Intermountain announced their excellent F-7 in speed lettering.
So now, outside of a badly needed Alco S- series switcher, I have representatives of just about every class of WM diesel that existed in 1970.
Generally speaking, the first thing one should do is settle on a prototype road, or a prototype location that they fancy. That helps narrow down the search when it comes to purchasing equipment and organizing it for fun operations.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
shayfan84325I'm not very scientific about it. If I see a locomotive i like, I buy it and then I figure out how it fits into my layout and its story.
Yeah, I have to admit that's sorta been the way I've done it up until recently-- maybe starting about a year or so ago trying to think about it in more detail and make better selections.
Since I'm modeling three types of railroads, I think I'll be okay with the majority of what I've collected so far. Perhaps some that aren't best suited, but I don't mind keeping them to the side. Mostly if anything, my "problem" locos are simply too new to be deployed in the "late 1950's" timeframe that I've chosen.
But, that said, I have since had an opportunity to study some of my purchases more closely with respect, particularly, to the Pennsy. As the South Pennsylvania RR's major patron, with trackage rights along the mainline, there will be a decent amount of Pennsy-flavored traffic rolling through. My diesels will pass muster without much problem. But the locos are nearly all USRA-style and while the Pennsy had its share of those, most of its locos-- and more importantly, the "family look" its most noted for-- is the Belpaire firebox along with the high-mounted headlight just in front of the generator-- of course those beautiful Pennsy keystone smokebox cover plates were very nice too!
So, in my view, in order for my steam locos to be quickly "recognized" as Pennsy locos, I need to figure out a way to acquire models with Belpaire fireboxes and headlamps / generators (and a few other detail parts) either in the right place or else relocatable.
In contrast however, my Proto-Freelanced "South Pennsylvania Railroad", which in many ways is more Freelance than Prototype-based-- and I've heard the term "Proto-Lanced" which could be a good description-- never actually existed much beyond a graded right-of-way, some tunnels and bridge piers. So, at least theoretically, its roster is whatever I say it is, and I'll be right-- 'cause its my railroad and the prototype is mainly imaginary too. But, that said, if it is "heavily influenced" by the Pennsy, then I would expect for there to be a reasonable assortment of "Pre-owned", "Gently-loved" Pennsy gifts, cast-off's, on-lease, etc. locomotives acquired from or through the Pennsylvania Railroad. But on the other hand, the South Penn is *also* its own concern, albeit heavily invested in and influenced by the Pennsy, so there would have been times in its past where it made its own decision about locos to purchase.
All of this may seem like unnecessary hand-wringing. And I suppose for some people it is. Just buy what you want and run it, they would probably say. I though am interested in finding out what choices they (the South Penn) might have made-- what would have been conceivably plausible (I hate that term btw!) based on the various factors of their existence.
For my Montour RR initiative, I already have a pretty good guide to follow with respect to the actual, real choices it did make. Again I'll be "Protolancing" when I develop my version of the Montour, but in that case, it will be selections based more on the actual, real types of locomotives that the Montour really did use. I can still arbitrarily decide for it to operate "other" locos that I might find and pick up here and there, as long as they stay generally in the range of a locomotive that the Montour could have conceivably had or wanted. For that info I can check out the web site.
UP 4-12-2All it ever did was make me unhappy and frustrated.
Well, then most defnitely you were making the wrong selections!
A man went to the doctor and said "Doc, it only hurts when I do that!""Then don't do that", the doctor replied!
A man went to the doctor and said "Doc, it only hurts when I do that!"
"Then don't do that", the doctor replied!
markpierceJohn, why don't you write a book or something? Mark
Hmmm... now there's a thought! I'll bet it'd be a best-smeller !!
steinjrjwhitten What's a poor modeler to do...? Whatever you like - on your layout, you get to make the decisions
That's good advice and thank you very much for the links. I'll update the original post.
John:
Another thoughful topic.
In my case, I had begun collecting steam locomotives for my favorite two railroads--Rio Grande and Southern Pacific--even before I had the space to build a model railroad. However, I knew several things--my MR would be laid in the Northern California Sierra Nevada mountains, and it would entail grades of up to 2.4% and wide enough curves to accommodate BIG steam. The setting would be WWII, steam's finest hour.
Luckily, when I bought my house, it came with a 2-car garage ("california basement") and in my area, NOBODY uses a garage to park their cars, so I was able to start building my empire with both the grades and the track radii that would accomodate both big articulateds and big long-wheel-based steam.
Now in my particular case, about the only prototypes I could really get for Rio Grande and Southern Pacific were brass locomotives, but I hit every 'bargain' I could to obtain them (and reworked some of them considerably) in order to build a representative, smooth-running roster. Granted, if I were modeling more 'popular' steam railroads, I could have gone plastic, and frankly, it wouldn't have bothered me at all. In other words, my roster is about 95% brass by NECESSITY, not 'snob' value. But, I am a 'proto-lancer' (authentic motive power in a slightly 'fictional' setting--the Rio Grande of course, doesn't run through the Sierra Nevada, LOL!), so that's what I've had to do.
The locomotive roster is based on the wheel arrangements that would normally be seen in a mountain setting with relatively heavy grades. I don't have too many locomotives of smaller wheel arrangements (2-8-0, 4-6-0), except for use on light freight or local passenger. Probably my lightest multiple locos are of 2-8-2 wheel arrangment, with the majority of them running from 4-8-2, 4-8-4, 2-10-2 through various wheel arrangements of either compound Mallets or simple articulateds (2-6-6-2, 2-8-8-2, 2-8-8-4, 4-6-6-4 and 4-8-8-2).
In other words, my roster has been developed to represent the kind of steam that would ordinarily be seen on a relatively busy mountainous trans-Sierra mainline.
Now, were I modeling a Sierra Nevada foothill branch-line, it would be entirely different. My roster would be very heavy on 2-6-0, 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 motive power. And Lord knows that SP had a HUGE roster of those handsome little devils.
But anyway, that's how I developed my locomotive roster--by the terrain in which my model railroad is set. I was born and raised in the Sierra Nevada--it's still my favorite playground.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
ns3010In Connectuct, there's a short branch, so we need a road switcher for that.
Joe, it sounds like you have a well-thought out idea of your railroad's locomotive roster.... but *why* do you need a "road switcher", and each of the other selections? What thought process(es) did you go through to make those specific determinations? I'm not taking issue with any of your choices-- in any case, its your railroad after all-- but I would like to know what considerations you / your railroad found relevant and thus led to those particular selections...???
tomikawaTTthe birds managing the property (Cheep! Cheep! Cheep!!!) acquired small tank locos on the second-(third, fourth, fifth)-hand market and ran them until they died. [...] The obvious question about 3 is, Why not just use the more powerful JNR locos? - answered by the supertight curves on the TTT.
Chuck, thank you! That was an excellent answer and gives great insight as to *why* the railroad you model picked the locomotives it did. That is the type of information that is difficult to discern by non-engineers from dry readings of locomotive specifications. Even with substantive knowledge of the other factors, such as health of the railroad, locale and terrain, etc., its still not always easy to figure out what would make a good selection with respect to picking the specific model locomotives to grace your layout.
What else have you done, if anything, to improve or enhance the "fit and feel", or to otherwise "integrate" your locomotive selections into your railroad's "family" of locomotives?
IRONROOSTERIn general, I am following the Ma&Pa of 1953, but I don't let it get in the way of buying engines (and rolling stock) that appeal to me.
That seems sensible.
UP 4-12-2I should note that my motive power roster keeps changing as my interests and current financial state change. My old roster posts are now outdated, and I'll have other engines soon that were pre-ordered, so my roster remains rather "fluid".
So are you saying you just run what you like?
UP 4-12-2and likely the Spectrum K-4 (it's a great value and good to run for grabby guests especially children).
Ahhh! There is a really good example of a practical real-world consideration that exists only in the model realm. I doubt that the prototype needed to worry much about that! LOL
BRAKIEFirst I enjoy these 'Philosophy Friday' topics.
You and me both. I really learn a lot from you guys about all kinds of stuff-- and its fun listening and talking to you too. If there's one thing for certain that I've learned to expect from the great group of folks here, its diversity of opinion. And I both enjoy and respect that. Thank you for the kind words!
BRAKIEWhy EMD? The upper management wanted to streamline the maintenance shops and keep parts from one locomotive manufacturer instead of several..This saved money in maintenance stores operation.
Sounds good.... saving money is always good. Why EMD though? Is that just a personal preference or is there some additional reasoning there?
Secondly, *why* the particular locomotives you selected? 4-wheel short wheelbase switchers; mid-size mid-power road engines; and the rest? What kind of terrain does your railroad traverse? How healthy is its coffers? Did either of those elements play a factor?