A backwards world and railroading.

[Anonymous]

I have been trying to get on the railroad now since 1998, being hired on with a shortline for almost 2 years, then being fired. Now I still try to get in the railroading life being a railfan but also respecting the railroads and the workers who hate us, the railfans. I just got done talking to a women who's husband works for the railroad. Our first meeting seemed very promising. After doing what she said to do and no luck I called human resouces for that railroad with again no luck and no answer to why I can not seem to get called. Well, in her eyes that was a red flag to her and the railroad. She also got on the topic how I loved trains. As a railfan I was hurt and upset at the things she told me on how her family and friends who were railroad employees felt about us. I will not get in detail because you all can imagine yourself on the things I was told. Last she talked on how her and her family and friends hate trains, the railroad, and foamers. The only good thing about the railroads in their eyes was MONEY! After the conversation I hung up the phone in despair and confused on how could the railfans who want to live their dreams of being a railroader have to work tooth and nail and wait years to get a job and then keep their love of the job to themselves but a guy off the street who dispises the railroad and trains but just longs for the money gets right in! I just want to say that this is a sad time for the trains themselves and the past railroaders who loved and took pride in trains and their jobs. Beyond these sad times I will press on in trying to achive MY dream and will take pride in my job but also will respect how times have changed and will keep my love of the railroad to myself.

I want to say that if you are a railroader and love trains, you are the ones who prove that there is still those few who have true RESPECT and Love for the job, railroads, and trains. I hope I have not offended anyone or any railroaders that are in the industry for the love and passion and if so I am sorry. Being young and having passion for trains and wanting to be a railroader but having to go through being labled and treated wrongly is hard.

If you are a railroader please talk to me, I urge your thoughts and opinions on my comments. Also if you would like to help a young man get his start in railroading please let me know or e-mail me at [e-mail]

Thank you.

Brian M.

[Anonymous]

Brian, I wouldn't let one conversation ruin your image of railroaders. I am a conductor on the Canadian Pacific. I have met many other conductors and engineers that are also railfans. One engineer told me, "you know , this is the only job in the world where people always wave and take your picture. I don't know of any plumbers who get that much respect!". While talking to an engineer during a trip two days ago, I found out that his new home was designed with a dedicated room just for his model railroad. Many roads are hiring right now. The problem is that becoming a railroader is a difficult process. I am a newby, starting June of 2004. Out of my class of nine conductor trainees, I am the only one remaining. All of the others found the job to be too tough. Trust me, I have had more than a few moments where I had to be talked out of quitting!! One suggestion would be to not emphasize your enthusiasm for railfanniing. Why? Many fans do not have a clue what they are getting in to. What the railroad is looking for is someone who can think on their own. The weird thing about being a conductor is that you don't really have a boss. The conductor and the engineer are expected to figure out things on their own. Problem? Figure it out and fix it!! You decide what is safe. You decide how to get a broken train rolling again. Bad paperwork? Figure it out. I would emphasize your ability to think independantly. Many questions are asked during interviews about how you respond to challanging situations. Mechanical skills are very important. Awareness of safety is of utmost concern. The interviewer is trying to find out from your response if you have your head screwed on straight enough to keep you and your coworkers from being killed. Back to your railfan questions, I know that a few guys feel that some railfans act like they know more about railroading than railroaders do. This is a very challanging job and some feel insulted by those who act like it would be a piece of cake for them to do. Keep trying. Sometimes perisistance will get you the job. Railroads spend a pile of money training you. They want to make sure that the people they hire will stick around. It takes about a year before you are anything but a liability to the road. They wonder, 'well, he can talk the talk but can he walk the walk?" geoff

[CSXrules4eva]

Wow this shounds horrible. I do know of alot of railroad employees who work for CSX, SEPTA, and Amtrak who absolutely love their jobs! They take pride in them. But, they rarely talk or brag about how much they love their job. I guess it's the shyness among them. One employee I know who works for CSX can't get enough of trains, after his runs he comes home to his model railway and runs his trains. He has tons of train video's and memorbila. I don't know why but many railroad employees who love the railroad will rarely admit that they are in love w/ it. I guess it's because of the hard times railroads have had in dealing w/ railroad labor. I haven't meet a railroad employee who didn't like me because I was and still am a trainjunkie. They thought it was cool. But, there are some rail personal who don't really like the job and don't respect it that much.

My great grandpop worked for PRR as a railroader and he loved it, this was in the eairly 1900s. He workd for them well over 35yrs. He loved trains. I guess some of him rubbed off on me because I can't get enough of trains and I too want to work for the railroad as a loco engineer perferibly w/ CSX. This has been my goal since I was 10yrs old.

Oh P.S. the family your talking about that has a long railroad history, that isn't pround of it . . .. . um. . . . .. THEY NEED HELP really!! I'm pround of my family's rail history. it's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Anonymous]

Well then, DO IT!!

[Anonymous]

Hey Brian, rule #1 is never give up. I guess there's a bit of the old philosopher in me, because I have my little life rules, but they've served me well. Rule #2 is along the same lines: Doing a job that you hate is dumb! No one is ever truly successful unless they're doing a job that they like. Just to keep it short, at this point refer back to rule #1. Now, my telling you my little rules isn't going to get you the job. You have to do that for yourself. I have a great deal of sympathy, because I've been exactly where you are, so let me tell you a short story. I come from a railroad family, so trust me when I tell you that I have it in my blood. Somewhere along the line, though, the blood skipped a generation. That generation was my dad's. He had watched my grandfather work his life away on the Santa Fe, and I guess it looked a little too much like work. My dad's opinion was that if you were smart, you didn't work with your hands. He took it into his head that he wanted to be a lawyer and set his sights in that direction. Now, I'm not knocking my ol' man here. He followed rule #1 all the way. To his credit, he worked his way through college and law school, graduated near the top of his law school class, and went on to become a very successful man. The only thing dear old dad was unsuccessful at was keeping his oldest son away from machinery, especially trains! He probably should have figured out it was a lost cause early on, because the high point of my day was always the evening trip to the train station. I was about 5 years old, and every day my mother and I would drive to the station to pick Dad up at about 5:15. I'd drive my mother nuts trying to get her to go early so we could watch the earlier trains go by first. ( I'm glad I didn't know it at the time, but within a very few years "my trains" were gone. Yes, you guessed it, this was the tail end of the steam era.) Now let's jump ahead a bit to my junior year of High School. This is the time when most normal kids are choosing a college to attend, and I was under heavy pressure to get my grades up so that I'd be accepted somewhere. That was never part of my plan. I'd dodged the topic with my father for as long as I could, but one day he sat me down and demanded to know just what I was going to do with my life. My somewhat flippant answer was that I intended to hire out with the railroad and marry my girlfriend. I was dead serious. Dad was dead serious too. I can't now give you an exact quote, but his words were something akin to "no chance, Buster! I will NOT sit by and watch you ruin your life!" Needless to say, my relationship with my father was going downhill fast. It's sort of ironic, but about this time he actually wound up working for the railroad. The law firm he worked for was hired to represent the Southern Pacific on a variety of things, and Dad was assigned to the team. This was bad news for me. I stuck with my plan and after graduating from High School, I applied to the S.P. I got nowhere. I took a job I didn't like, just as a get-by, and kept trying. Still, I got nowhere. To make a long story short, I eventually discovered that my father had gotten to know people at S.P.'s front office, and had convinced someone there not to hire me. I'm leaving out a fair amount of detail here, but that's the gist of it. Over the next couple of years I worked at several other jobs, some better than others, but I never gave up on railroading. I kept after the Southern Pacific with application after application. I probably drove some poor clerk in the employment office half goofy, but I never quit. As you've probably guessed, the story has a happy ending. After some two years of this, Dad's law firm was replaced by another. With his influence removed from the Home Office, getting hired proved to be a fairly simple thing. I think to this day they probably hired me just to get rid of me, but I guess I'll never know for sure. Everything pretty much went my way after that, including marrying my High School sweetheart. My ol' man didn't approve of that, either, but he came around after a while. Well, this turned into a longer story than I had intended, so I better tie up here before I bore you to death. Just remember, never give up! You'll get there! J.D. Nomad

[Anonymous]

Hey, theNomad, great story! And what are you doing up at 3:56 AM?
Way to go by sticking to your goal in life! Your "old man" should never have interfered in you life that way. I admire that even though he did, you percivered.
[:)]

[Anonymous]

bpepper, I wondered if anyone would notice the time on that posting! Old railroaders are used to crazy hours, so you never know when I'll be out here. You brought up a good point about my father and his interference, but I've always looked at it from a slightly different angle. Remember that we're talking about many years ago, and that it was very much a different time. My dad, by his lights, was doing what any responsible parent would do. He was trying to make sure that his family had it better than he did. I guess it's all a matter of perception as to just what "better" really is. The long and short of it is that I hold no grudges about any of it. In all honesty, there was a time when I would cheerfully have strangled him, but the experience of raising my own kids did wonders for my understanding. The real point of the story, of course, is that nothing beats persistence. In fact, the ol' man came to understand that we weren't so different after all. The truth is, I learned rule #1 from him, if you think about it. He was my example, my role model in a very real way, in terms of how I approached life. By the way, ol' Dad is still kicking. He's almost 90 years old, but he's still going at life in run 8. He travels, he parties, he can still wade a trout stream with a fly rod in his hand... I could go on and on. Point is, a good part of his longevity is directly related to his approach to life. I guess maybe the real lesson is that rule #1 applies to a lot more than job hunting. It applies to all of life. Dad would be the first to tell you that he's not done yet, that there's a lot more that he wants to do. My money's on him. I'll bet he lives to at least 100. Anyway, that's enough about my family history. The point of all this is to see if we can help Brian realize his dream. I have no doubt that he'll get there in due time, but maybe there's somebody out there that can offer a little help. I don't really want to sound like I'm throwing out a challenge here, but in fact that's exactly what I'm doing. How about it folks? Meanwhile, HAPPY NEW YEAR to all. J.D. Nomad

[Anonymous]

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

[DPD1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RailroaderBMeyer

The only good thing about the railroads in their eyes was MONEY! After the conversation I hung up the phone in despair and confused on how could the railfans who want to live their dreams of being a railroader have to work tooth and nail and wait years to get a job and then keep their love of the job to themselves but a guy off the street who dispises the railroad and trains but just longs for the money gets right in!

I guess it's kind of human nature for people to often be negative about their jobs. When people don't like their job, it seems to invoke a level of disgust, when other people say they would love to do it. As an example... Without going into too much detail.... I work in a business that people all over the world think they would love to work in. They do things like moving away from their families, live in poverty, and endure great hardships trying to do it. Every time I tell people what I do, the typical response is: "Wow! I would love to do that" or "Man! That must be so much fun!". In reality, it's not fun... It's a hard, stressful, pressure filled, laborious type of work, where if you make one mistake, there's a thousand people waiting in the wings to replace you. And the people you work for know that, and have absolutely no problem using that as a tool to threaten you. So what do I say when somebody says they want to do what I do because they think it would be so much fun? Well, since I know all people are different, and not everyone is going to respond to situations the same... I first explain to them that it's not really the big party they think it is. BUT... I then tell them what the real job is like, and what's involved. After that, some people get more subdued. Other people think they would possibly still like to give it, or a similar job a try... Then others, seem to live in complete denial, and insist that my job surely must be nothing but fun, and somehow I must be mistaken about the negative aspects. It's for that last group of people, that I will admit, I do tend to become a little annoyed. When you've done something for 15 years, and somebody that's never done your job for a single day thinks they know more about what goes on then you do, it can be a little irritating.

Not that I'm saying that's what you did... Just trying to explain why some people might seem a little negative about their job. Jobs affect people differently... One person's agony is another person's challenge. But from my experience, I would advise to just play it safe, and not bring up your like of trains to potential employers. For whatever reason, in many fields, the attitude is often negative towards people that claim to be "fans" or "amateurs". People that have been on a job for a long time can sometimes have a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Maybe doing that job for 20 long years is all they have going for them. In their minds, they're the king of their realm, and they don't want to hear about how somebody is a fan, or thinks they know anything at all about their job... Whether they really do or not. Green enthusiasm is often frowned on. Sounds mean, but that's just the way a lot of people are.

So if it was me... I'd just say: 'Hi... I'm looking for a good job, and I'd like to work for the RR'... And then when you do get your job... You can enjoy it as much as you want. Nobody can take that away. :-)

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-DPD Productions - Home of the TrainTenna RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

[tup][:D]RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN I WORK FOR YOUR RAILROAD??/

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

its one thing to like your job.but when your mixing your job and a hobby together it can be dangourse for yourself and your fellow workers... the problem with some railfans that become railroaders is that when they are working..they still want to railfan... they get distracted by passing trains.. and other railroad day to day opporations they find intresting insted of staying focused on the job... and besides... i dont know anyone that would put up with the crap the we railroaders put up with on a day to day basice if it wasnt for the money... railfan or otherwise... their is alot of stuff that alot of fans dont see that goes...when your track side all you see is a passing train..and the crew might wave to you...but what you dont see is all the work that goes into getting that train ready on on the road....the propor paperwork...getting the call at 1am for 3am after only getting 2 hours sleep becouse they jumped your turn up....haveing to walk in the pooring rain to fix an airhose...the list can go on and on... the railroad life is not glamerouse at all...infact..it just down right sucks... and as far as fireing the people that just want to make a paycheck and keep the fans...your comp would be in chaper 11 within a week... becouse the workers you fired would be the ones that actuly would be doing thier jobs...not getting distracted by taking pics and lollygagging around looking at passing trains....their is a fine line that cant be crossed in this line of work...and that line is....... when you show up for duty..you leave the railfan part of you in the car in the parking lot....your a railroader when your on duty..and a fan when the work is done!!!... that rule is hard for some to keep...and they are the ones that dont last.....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

csx engineer-- I gotta admit, you make a lot of good points. I myself am both a railroader and a railfan, but you're 100% right that you have to leave the railfan behind when you get to work. I've run across people over the years that couldn't, and I agree with you that they're dangerous. On the other hand, I've known many others, including myself, who can't imagine doing anything else. I sort of read Brian as a kindred spirit, so my advice to him stands. Keep at it, and you'll realize your dream. You and I both know what the real world of railroading is, and yes, some of it sucks. Be that as it may, I still have no desire to do anything else. Maybe I'm the oddball here, I don't know, but even after 36 years I enjoy my job. ( Geez, how many people can say that and mean it?) As to the money, I agree with you that damn few people would do what we do if the pay wasn't pretty good, but I gotta tell ya, as long as they pay me enough to get by, I'm there. Of course, in practical terms, I'm stuck anyway. I've spent my whole life on the rails, and I really don't know anything else. What would I do, flip burgers? Doesn't matter anyway, because they're going to have to chase me off to get rid of me. The bottom line is, you can be both a railfan and a railroader, as long as you can keep the two separated. You're absolutely right when you say that there are many that can't manage that, but if you can, your work can be a joy instead of a job. Remember when you first started out? It was FUN! A little scary, but fun. For me, it still is. --J.D. Nomad

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by theNomad

csx engineer-- I gotta admit, you make a lot of good points. I myself am both a railroader and a railfan, but you're 100% right that you have to leave the railfan behind when you get to work. I've run across people over the years that couldn't, and I agree with you that they're dangerous. On the other hand, I've known many others, including myself, who can't imagine doing anything else. I sort of read Brian as a kindred spirit, so my advice to him stands. Keep at it, and you'll realize your dream. You and I both know what the real world of railroading is, and yes, some of it sucks. Be that as it may, I still have no desire to do anything else. Maybe I'm the oddball here, I don't know, but even after 36 years I enjoy my job. ( Geez, how many people can say that and mean it?) As to the money, I agree with you that damn few people would do what we do if the pay wasn't pretty good, but I gotta tell ya, as long as they pay me enough to get by, I'm there. Of course, in practical terms, I'm stuck anyway. I've spent my whole life on the rails, and I really don't know anything else. What would I do, flip burgers? Doesn't matter anyway, because they're going to have to chase me off to get rid of me. The bottom line is, you can be both a railfan and a railroader, as long as you can keep the two separated. You're absolutely right when you say that there are many that can't manage that, but if you can, your work can be a joy instead of a job. Remember when you first started out? It was FUN! A little scary, but fun. For me, it still is. --J.D. Nomad

in my personal life..i always wanted to be an engineer...ever since i was a little boy and say my first train..i wanted to work for the railroad.. i always thought it would be a great job to have.... someone that can controll equipment that size always gave me a sence of awww ....i still once in a while when i see locomtives on a ready track or sitting someplace when im on the ground or walking to my power i get a sence of aww like when i was a little kid looking at a locomotive...but once i got on the railroad and found out first hand all the crap you have to put up with it kind let the wind out of the sails so to speak with realy likeing the job...it was a novilty for the first year..then it ware off... and its just a job to me now.. but i will say this in the jobs defence... it is never the same thing twice....but i guess with any job..its what you make of it.... but alot of times the railroads themselfs make the job misserable..which after doing it for years tends to make you a little misserable twards the job.....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

csx engineer-- You and I aren't so very different. To be honest about it, railroading isn't what it was when I hired out. It's very different than it was even 10 years ago. There's a heck of a lot more paperwork, more hassles, more people looking over your shoulder,----- well, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. My way of handling it has been to stay focused on what I enjoy. I guess that's why I've always been a railfan as well as a railroader. My wife says I'm an incurable optimist, and I guess to a degree she's right, but there's more to it than that. For one thing, I tried a desk job once when I was young. Found out very quickly that I hated being stuck indoors all the time. For another, like you, I've always had that sense of awe when I'm around big equipment, no matter what it is. I get the same feeling from an enormous piece of construction equipment that I do from a locomotive. Third, my name fits me. I'm happiest when I'm on the move, never content to sit still. The other thing that really hit me was your comment that " it's never the same thing twice". Amen to that, brother! I don't usually think of it in those terms, but that's one of the things that keeps it fun for me. Sure, I have my days when it's just a job, especially those times when it's a holiday, the weather is horrible, and I'm working midnights--- well, you know. But despite those times, there's still nothing I'd rather do. If they fired me tomorrow I guess I'd have to go learn to drive an 18 wheeler, because that's probably as close as I could get to the satisfaction I get from railroading. Does all this make me a nut case? Probably. No doubt there are plenty of railroaders who would say definitly. Just look at all the youngsters that hire out and then quit after a few weeks because it wasn't what they expected. I think, for most of them, it was simply too much work. They thought that within a few weeks they'd be sitting in the cab, waving to people at the grade crossings, and having the time of their lives. Ha Ha! I've been at this for 36 years and it's never been like that! Even so, I'll still tell you that I'm still having fun. You said it yourself, and you're right. With any job, it's what you make of it. --JD

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

[tup][:D]RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN I WORK FOR YOUR RAILROAD??/

Hey, if you have a extra half a billon, i may consider to let you be like... Co-CEO or maybe CEO and ill be just owner. I dunno a desk job for a railroad may not be AT ALL worth it, but, hey what do i know, im not even old enough to drive. [V]

But He is right when CSXEnegnner says that Railfans get disracted... I would... I'd need ear plugs, those side vision blinders, and a ban from all cameras on the work site.