A backwards world and railroading.

[Anonymous]

I have been trying to get on the railroad now since 1998, being hired on with a shortline for almost 2 years, then being fired. Now I still try to get in the railroading life being a railfan but also respecting the railroads and the workers who hate us, the railfans. I just got done talking to a women who's husband works for the railroad. Our first meeting seemed very promising. After doing what she said to do and no luck I called human resouces for that railroad with again no luck and no answer to why I can not seem to get called. Well, in her eyes that was a red flag to her and the railroad. She also got on the topic how I loved trains. As a railfan I was hurt and upset at the things she told me on how her family and friends who were railroad employees felt about us. I will not get in detail because you all can imagine yourself on the things I was told. Last she talked on how her and her family and friends hate trains, the railroad, and foamers. The only good thing about the railroads in their eyes was MONEY! After the conversation I hung up the phone in despair and confused on how could the railfans who want to live their dreams of being a railroader have to work tooth and nail and wait years to get a job and then keep their love of the job to themselves but a guy off the street who dispises the railroad and trains but just longs for the money gets right in! I just want to say that this is a sad time for the trains themselves and the past railroaders who loved and took pride in trains and their jobs. Beyond these sad times I will press on in trying to achive MY dream and will take pride in my job but also will respect how times have changed and will keep my love of the railroad to myself.

I want to say that if you are a railroader and love trains, you are the ones who prove that there is still those few who have true RESPECT and Love for the job, railroads, and trains. I hope I have not offended anyone or any railroaders that are in the industry for the love and passion and if so I am sorry. Being young and having passion for trains and wanting to be a railroader but having to go through being labled and treated wrongly is hard.

If you are a railroader please talk to me, I urge your thoughts and opinions on my comments. Also if you would like to help a young man get his start in railroading please let me know or e-mail me at [e-mail]

Thank you.

Brian M.

[Anonymous]

Well, like everyone said, railroading has its ups and downs. It can be interesting at times, and boring at others. My having been a tower operator for a road back here in the Chicago area, had its ups and downs. The days when I was busy were great, and the weekends and holidays were something else. Midnights too were often slow. Some of the old things that happened I remember today, and wish I could turn the clock back, but, that can't be done.
Like everyone said, put your application in and keep pushing at it with whoever you put it in with. If nothing else, put an application in with every railroad around, maybe one is sure to come through for you. And now in this day and age, when most of the people my age are either dying or retiring, they are going to need more people. I am of the "babyboom era" so that means most of us are done working. Me, well that is another story. If you like trains and want to work for a railroad, do like everyone has said: put in your application, but make no mention of being a railbuff. You can tell them down the road, when you have been there for awhile. Good luck and happy hunting for whatever road you go with! ralph zimmer [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

I spent 25 years working in radio and TV broadcasting, on the air, so I know a lot about a job people think is glamorous. Because I had a family, I did not want to move frequently as so many young people do in that business. I ended up anchoring and producing weekend, morning, and midday newscasts for all those years. In the final years, delivering morning news on Christmas Day, for example, told me I was not wrong in thinking about retirement. I had grown to be highly bored and disgusted with the content of most TV newscasts.
The point is: the two rules mentioned above are very important. If you don't like what you're doing, you have to find a way to leave. Some young people think being on TV for the news would be great, and it has its rewards, as does driving a train, I'm sure. But batting out a script or recording a satellite feed of a big story only minutes before air time creates tension. If equipment balks, you're stuck with a big window of time to fill. Getting up at 2 am for all those years was a drag. Being constantly recognized in stores, etc, is a very big headache after a while. If you're feeling moody while you're grocery shopping, you have to smile when someone makes a flip remark about the news, or blames you for the bad weather, even though you're not the weather guy.
Much much more happens behind the camera than in front of it, and after a while, it is just a job. I could also go on for a long time about news media in general. I grew tired of reporting bad bad things with very few uplifting stories.
The enthusiasm of the young people amazed me, but I realized it was good, because eventually they would learn their craft and do well. I could not do that any more. I'm just glad the job lacked the danger of railroading. No lives were ever at stake when I worked, but I was tired of arrogant, pompous people who thought TV news was the most important thing on earth.
To sum up: every job can be a headache. None is glamorous. All involve much more work and daily grind than outsiders can imagine. You really have to find something outside of work to keep your sanity. Trains do it for me. If you want to work in a particular field, no matter what you think it might involve, understand that it is work, work, work. The rewards are few and far between in this frenzied world of high speed technology.
Thanks for 'listening' to this rant. George.

[Anonymous]

hi and thank you guys for this thread. I have been in aviation for 16 years and am considering a career change. I enjoy trains (I will go out of my way to see one) but not sure if I qualify as a foamer. I live in Phoenix, and the UP is hiring, and we have a light rail system coming to the city, it seems like the time might be now. csxengineer88's post reminded me of me. There is nothing fun about being stuck in the cramped confines of an airplane on a 110 degree day, or working out on the asphalt, and I tire of the people who think I am "lucky" to be an aircraft mechanic. It is a job. I am sure that a train service job would be no picnic, but I am equally sure I can do the job. Anybody's opinion on this subject would be appreciated. I suspect there are people on this forum who have forgotten more about railroading then I could hope to know. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

ndbprr-- We've actually batted this around to some degree, but without stating it as such. As mentioned, csx engineer and I have both seen new hires that only lasted a few weeks or months, and it's usually because they're basically foamers who had no idea that it's actually WORK. Seems kinda dumb, but it happens. Your comment that they don't take the business side seriously enough is right on the money. My advice to all railfans ( including myself ) is to remember that if the railroads can't make money, there won't BE any railroads. Steam, etc. is fun, and we all love to see historic equipment on the rails, but at best these things are P.R. tools, not money makers.

--JD Nomad

[ndbprr]

One of the flags being railfans that I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is the fact that railroading like any other company in any field is a business. The railroad perspective on foamers is they live in the past and don't take the business side seriously enough. Can you imagine the reaction to a new college educated accountant or mechanical engineer who tried to get a railroad to consider operating a steam engine? It would be something along the lines of, "Not another one!". Nostalgia is fine if asked for it. Solving the operating and logistical problems is what they are looking for. Keeping antiquated equipment and lines open because we know the history won't cut it. That is where foamers fall down on the job.

[Anonymous]

csx engineer-- As we've gone back and forth on this topic you've made me think a lot. I've come to a couple of conclusions. First, I guess I have to admit that in some ways I'm just an overgrown kid. That's OK, though, because that attitude keeps me interested in life and gives me the ability to look for the good in things instead of the bad. The other thing that sticks in my mind is this, though. You and I have been around the block a few times, so we both know that the people you work with can make a huge difference. You can be lucky in who you work with, you can be lucky in who your bosses are, or you can be lucky in both. Over the years I've pretty much been lucky in both. Oh, I've had a few rotten SOB's come my way over the years, but I've managed to outlast 'em all. Maybe that's what the difference is. Anyway, just a thought. Wish I had more time, but I gotta run. Have a good one, Bro.

--JD

[csxengineer98]

nomad...
your last statment about about some of the younger new hires just wanting to get on and go is one of the biggerst reasons why railfans that cant seporate the hobby part of them from the railroad worker while on duty is what i was getting at... thats why i said that braks railroad company would fall apart in days... i know befor i hired out i thought the job was all glory and fun... but that soon turned to a daily grind of haveing to look over my shoulder and cover my own *** evey min on the company proporty fearing for my job....and that is what alot of buffs dont see... they only still see the glory part of the job.. and you said it when you said that it was never that way...and it only gets worse and worse on the crews with the head hunting strike fear into the ranks style of managment... im not saying that its not normal to like the job...im just saying that in my own personal exparinces with working on the railroad...the job has it highpoints..but they are few and far between... its hard for me to come to work with jumping up and down enthusiasum (i know i buchred that word..lol) when you never know if your going to be called to the carpet for breaking a minor rule..... and you know its impossable to follow every rule to the letter..becouse if you did..you would never get a train to move..let alone over the road.... so the only thing that realy keeps me going and not turn in my papers to try another kind of job is the money... where i am at... their are very few high paying jobs and the ones that are around..you need 4+ years of college and some kind of degree...other then t hat..most of the jobs here are in the 8 to 12 buck an hour range.. about half of what i am making as an engineer now... so a paycut to try something else is out of the question for some time to come....so it boils down to money for me.... its just a pay check... but in guess in some way i envy you ..that after 30+ years of a railroad lifestyel..and all the changes that have happend to the industry over them years... that you can still be happy to come to work... my hat is off to you on that brother....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

[tup][:D]RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN I WORK FOR YOUR RAILROAD??/

Hey, if you have a extra half a billon, i may consider to let you be like... Co-CEO or maybe CEO and ill be just owner. I dunno a desk job for a railroad may not be AT ALL worth it, but, hey what do i know, im not even old enough to drive. [V]

But He is right when CSXEnegnner says that Railfans get disracted... I would... I'd need ear plugs, those side vision blinders, and a ban from all cameras on the work site.

[Anonymous]

csx engineer-- You and I aren't so very different. To be honest about it, railroading isn't what it was when I hired out. It's very different than it was even 10 years ago. There's a heck of a lot more paperwork, more hassles, more people looking over your shoulder,----- well, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. My way of handling it has been to stay focused on what I enjoy. I guess that's why I've always been a railfan as well as a railroader. My wife says I'm an incurable optimist, and I guess to a degree she's right, but there's more to it than that. For one thing, I tried a desk job once when I was young. Found out very quickly that I hated being stuck indoors all the time. For another, like you, I've always had that sense of awe when I'm around big equipment, no matter what it is. I get the same feeling from an enormous piece of construction equipment that I do from a locomotive. Third, my name fits me. I'm happiest when I'm on the move, never content to sit still. The other thing that really hit me was your comment that " it's never the same thing twice". Amen to that, brother! I don't usually think of it in those terms, but that's one of the things that keeps it fun for me. Sure, I have my days when it's just a job, especially those times when it's a holiday, the weather is horrible, and I'm working midnights--- well, you know. But despite those times, there's still nothing I'd rather do. If they fired me tomorrow I guess I'd have to go learn to drive an 18 wheeler, because that's probably as close as I could get to the satisfaction I get from railroading. Does all this make me a nut case? Probably. No doubt there are plenty of railroaders who would say definitly. Just look at all the youngsters that hire out and then quit after a few weeks because it wasn't what they expected. I think, for most of them, it was simply too much work. They thought that within a few weeks they'd be sitting in the cab, waving to people at the grade crossings, and having the time of their lives. Ha Ha! I've been at this for 36 years and it's never been like that! Even so, I'll still tell you that I'm still having fun. You said it yourself, and you're right. With any job, it's what you make of it. --JD

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by theNomad

csx engineer-- I gotta admit, you make a lot of good points. I myself am both a railroader and a railfan, but you're 100% right that you have to leave the railfan behind when you get to work. I've run across people over the years that couldn't, and I agree with you that they're dangerous. On the other hand, I've known many others, including myself, who can't imagine doing anything else. I sort of read Brian as a kindred spirit, so my advice to him stands. Keep at it, and you'll realize your dream. You and I both know what the real world of railroading is, and yes, some of it sucks. Be that as it may, I still have no desire to do anything else. Maybe I'm the oddball here, I don't know, but even after 36 years I enjoy my job. ( Geez, how many people can say that and mean it?) As to the money, I agree with you that damn few people would do what we do if the pay wasn't pretty good, but I gotta tell ya, as long as they pay me enough to get by, I'm there. Of course, in practical terms, I'm stuck anyway. I've spent my whole life on the rails, and I really don't know anything else. What would I do, flip burgers? Doesn't matter anyway, because they're going to have to chase me off to get rid of me. The bottom line is, you can be both a railfan and a railroader, as long as you can keep the two separated. You're absolutely right when you say that there are many that can't manage that, but if you can, your work can be a joy instead of a job. Remember when you first started out? It was FUN! A little scary, but fun. For me, it still is. --J.D. Nomad

in my personal life..i always wanted to be an engineer...ever since i was a little boy and say my first train..i wanted to work for the railroad.. i always thought it would be a great job to have.... someone that can controll equipment that size always gave me a sence of awww ....i still once in a while when i see locomtives on a ready track or sitting someplace when im on the ground or walking to my power i get a sence of aww like when i was a little kid looking at a locomotive...but once i got on the railroad and found out first hand all the crap you have to put up with it kind let the wind out of the sails so to speak with realy likeing the job...it was a novilty for the first year..then it ware off... and its just a job to me now.. but i will say this in the jobs defence... it is never the same thing twice....but i guess with any job..its what you make of it.... but alot of times the railroads themselfs make the job misserable..which after doing it for years tends to make you a little misserable twards the job.....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

csx engineer-- I gotta admit, you make a lot of good points. I myself am both a railroader and a railfan, but you're 100% right that you have to leave the railfan behind when you get to work. I've run across people over the years that couldn't, and I agree with you that they're dangerous. On the other hand, I've known many others, including myself, who can't imagine doing anything else. I sort of read Brian as a kindred spirit, so my advice to him stands. Keep at it, and you'll realize your dream. You and I both know what the real world of railroading is, and yes, some of it sucks. Be that as it may, I still have no desire to do anything else. Maybe I'm the oddball here, I don't know, but even after 36 years I enjoy my job. ( Geez, how many people can say that and mean it?) As to the money, I agree with you that damn few people would do what we do if the pay wasn't pretty good, but I gotta tell ya, as long as they pay me enough to get by, I'm there. Of course, in practical terms, I'm stuck anyway. I've spent my whole life on the rails, and I really don't know anything else. What would I do, flip burgers? Doesn't matter anyway, because they're going to have to chase me off to get rid of me. The bottom line is, you can be both a railfan and a railroader, as long as you can keep the two separated. You're absolutely right when you say that there are many that can't manage that, but if you can, your work can be a joy instead of a job. Remember when you first started out? It was FUN! A little scary, but fun. For me, it still is. --J.D. Nomad

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

its one thing to like your job.but when your mixing your job and a hobby together it can be dangourse for yourself and your fellow workers... the problem with some railfans that become railroaders is that when they are working..they still want to railfan... they get distracted by passing trains.. and other railroad day to day opporations they find intresting insted of staying focused on the job... and besides... i dont know anyone that would put up with the crap the we railroaders put up with on a day to day basice if it wasnt for the money... railfan or otherwise... their is alot of stuff that alot of fans dont see that goes...when your track side all you see is a passing train..and the crew might wave to you...but what you dont see is all the work that goes into getting that train ready on on the road....the propor paperwork...getting the call at 1am for 3am after only getting 2 hours sleep becouse they jumped your turn up....haveing to walk in the pooring rain to fix an airhose...the list can go on and on... the railroad life is not glamerouse at all...infact..it just down right sucks... and as far as fireing the people that just want to make a paycheck and keep the fans...your comp would be in chaper 11 within a week... becouse the workers you fired would be the ones that actuly would be doing thier jobs...not getting distracted by taking pics and lollygagging around looking at passing trains....their is a fine line that cant be crossed in this line of work...and that line is....... when you show up for duty..you leave the railfan part of you in the car in the parking lot....your a railroader when your on duty..and a fan when the work is done!!!... that rule is hard for some to keep...and they are the ones that dont last.....
csx engineer

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

I hate people that hate their jobs and are in it just for the money. IF I owned a railroad every month a test would be handed out:

a.) Railfan/worker (I LOVE my job)
b.) Worker (Im here for the MONEY)

Everone who says B is gone. I you hate your job you will not care about the work you are doing, causeing saft risks and crapy service. There are thousands of people like Brian who love the railroads and would like a job. I think id call my company like, BrakRail (BRRR). Only railfans, high pay for railfans.

[tup][:D]RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN I WORK FOR YOUR RAILROAD??/

[DPD1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RailroaderBMeyer

The only good thing about the railroads in their eyes was MONEY! After the conversation I hung up the phone in despair and confused on how could the railfans who want to live their dreams of being a railroader have to work tooth and nail and wait years to get a job and then keep their love of the job to themselves but a guy off the street who dispises the railroad and trains but just longs for the money gets right in!

I guess it's kind of human nature for people to often be negative about their jobs. When people don't like their job, it seems to invoke a level of disgust, when other people say they would love to do it. As an example... Without going into too much detail.... I work in a business that people all over the world think they would love to work in. They do things like moving away from their families, live in poverty, and endure great hardships trying to do it. Every time I tell people what I do, the typical response is: "Wow! I would love to do that" or "Man! That must be so much fun!". In reality, it's not fun... It's a hard, stressful, pressure filled, laborious type of work, where if you make one mistake, there's a thousand people waiting in the wings to replace you. And the people you work for know that, and have absolutely no problem using that as a tool to threaten you. So what do I say when somebody says they want to do what I do because they think it would be so much fun? Well, since I know all people are different, and not everyone is going to respond to situations the same... I first explain to them that it's not really the big party they think it is. BUT... I then tell them what the real job is like, and what's involved. After that, some people get more subdued. Other people think they would possibly still like to give it, or a similar job a try... Then others, seem to live in complete denial, and insist that my job surely must be nothing but fun, and somehow I must be mistaken about the negative aspects. It's for that last group of people, that I will admit, I do tend to become a little annoyed. When you've done something for 15 years, and somebody that's never done your job for a single day thinks they know more about what goes on then you do, it can be a little irritating.

Not that I'm saying that's what you did... Just trying to explain why some people might seem a little negative about their job. Jobs affect people differently... One person's agony is another person's challenge. But from my experience, I would advise to just play it safe, and not bring up your like of trains to potential employers. For whatever reason, in many fields, the attitude is often negative towards people that claim to be "fans" or "amateurs". People that have been on a job for a long time can sometimes have a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Maybe doing that job for 20 long years is all they have going for them. In their minds, they're the king of their realm, and they don't want to hear about how somebody is a fan, or thinks they know anything at all about their job... Whether they really do or not. Green enthusiasm is often frowned on. Sounds mean, but that's just the way a lot of people are.

So if it was me... I'd just say: 'Hi... I'm looking for a good job, and I'd like to work for the RR'... And then when you do get your job... You can enjoy it as much as you want. Nobody can take that away. :-)

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-DPD Productions - Home of the TrainTenna RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/