SP Black widow passenger units-What did they pull?

[Rocket_Chief_Zephyr_Daylight_]

 Typically, fast freight, all nighters. Till the Gp9s arrived. 

[twhite]

Andre--

I'll be danged--you're RIGHT!  Just never remember seeing them around my area.  Do you have any information where SP ran them?  Northern or Southern California?  Man, I'd sure have liked to have seen one!

Tom  

 

 

[john.pickles87]

Hi all, from what I've read and the media i've viewed over the years the Widows were put where they were needed.  Same as railways the world over.

I've got em hauling reefers (Fs), doing comute service (FM Trainmaster), and just on frieght Gps,SDs and GE U boats, in N gauge that is and there's always modelers licence if yer stuck!!

jp (pick).

  

[andrechapelon]

At least one EMD E8 or E9 (6050) was painted Black Widow

It appears that SP 6048 was also painted in Black Widow paint. Both are E9As.
http://espee.railfan.net/spe-09.html

Eric--not to nit-pick, but that's not the 'Black Widow" scheme, it's the later simplified "Bloody Nose" scheme of dark gray and scarlet.  SP also used that scheme when they repainted their PA's from "Daylight" colors.  I remember when they went from Black Widow to the Bloody Nose scheme, a lot of us older SP fans just kind of stared at each other and said, "Wha' Hoppen?", LOL!  Though I remember that I really liked that particular scheme on their Tunnel Motors. 

Tom 

Actually, #6048 and #6050 did sport the Black Widow scheme for a short time in 1958. Granted the picture is of 6048 in Bloody Nose, but the unit really did sport Black Widow for a short time. P2K actually had as model of the unit. http://www.blwnscale.com/Life-Like%20EMD%20E8's.htm (page down about 2/3 of the way).

Andre

 

[twhite]

At least one EMD E8 or E9 (6050) was painted Black Widow

It appears that SP 6048 was also painted in Black Widow paint. Both are E9As.
http://espee.railfan.net/spe-09.html

Eric--not to nit-pick, but that's not the 'Black Widow" scheme, it's the later simplified "Bloody Nose" scheme of dark gray and scarlet.  SP also used that scheme when they repainted their PA's from "Daylight" colors.  I remember when they went from Black Widow to the Bloody Nose scheme, a lot of us older SP fans just kind of stared at each other and said, "Wha' Hoppen?", LOL!  Though I remember that I really liked that particular scheme on their Tunnel Motors. 

Tom 

[ericsp]

At least one EMD E8 or E9 (6050) was painted Black Widow

It appears that SP 6048 was also painted in Black Widow paint. Both are E9As.
http://espee.railfan.net/spe-09.html

[DSchmitt]

At least one EMD E8 or E9 (6050) was painted Black Widow

[johncolley]

As a kid I regularly travelled on a pass on 19 and 20 the Klamath, Oakland to Portland via Klamath Falls, mostly baggage and mail (especially near Christmas) and stuffy old heavyweights which I have seen pulled by almost anything that would pull the consists. I remember black widows, cab forwards, northerns, and later on, even the alco PA's would get a shot at it. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[EspeeEngineer]

As far as freight goes though, you would see a lot of tank trains and manifest freights.

[Tracklayer]

I stand corrected. I guess they did pull SP daylight cars. I was just wondering because I couldn't find any cars that matched the engines.

You might consider making some up just for fun... Just buy a good second hand set of smooth side or corrugated cars in the least popular road name that you can find, paint them black, put the orange and red stripes down the sides, the road name and car numbers on them, and wa la!. Though not prototypical at all, you'd be the only guy on the block with SP Black Widow passenger cars... Actually they'd probably look pretty cool if done right.

The fact is, the SP F-7 Black Widow paint scheme is my favorite of all followed by the SF.

Trackuslayerous (extinct for 75 million years...) 

[twhite]

Just curious, was there ever a time during the transition from steam to diesel when a motive consist of both types were used together? If so, which loco types? Probably wishful thinking on my part, trying to justify hooking up an older diesel or two with some steamers. -Rob

Rob--it wasn't unusual to see a cab-forward acting as helper to a 4-unit A-B-B-A Black Widow set running up the "Hill" outside of Roseville.  In fact for several years, SP would cut in two to three cab-forwards as helper power on their eastbound summer reefer trains.  I remember one such train going through Emigrant Gap when I was a kid in the early 'fifties with a cab-forward on the head of the Diesel set, then another cut midway in the train, then a third about ten cars ahead of the caboose.  That train was MOVIN', and it was one spectacular sight.  SP mixed steam and diesel on a lot of their runs.  SP wasn't totally dieselized until around 1957, if I remember correctly, so the early 'fifties had a lot of interesting power combinations. 

Tom  

 

[andrechapelon]

Just curious, was there ever a time during the transition from steam to diesel when a motive consist of both types were used together? If so, which loco types? Probably wishful thinking on my part, trying to justify hooking up an older diesel or two with some steamers. -Rob

Sure. During its final years in steam, the "Coast Daylight" on occasion got F-7 or GP-9 helpers for the climb to Santa Margarita out of San Luis Obispo. 

Andre 

 

 

[Cederstrand]

Just curious, was there ever a time during the transition from steam to diesel when a motive consist of both types were used together? If so, which loco types? Probably wishful thinking on my part, trying to justify hooking up an older diesel or two with some steamers. -Rob

[andrechapelon]

  Black Widow F's were 'freight engines'.  The Black Widow's pulling passenger trains were FP7's, about 4' longer and boiler equipped.  The FP7's eventually wound up pulling just about every SP passenger train.  IIRC, they were intially assigned to overnight service between LA and San Francisco.  They migrated to the 'Overland' route, and the 'Shasta' route trains as the older PA's were pulled from those routes.  Amtrak even leased them for a while....

  Maybe some of the 'eSPee' guys have the definitive service histry of these engines and can share it with the group.....

 Jim Bernier

That's not true. A number of straight F-7 A units were set up with boiler controls (although they lacked boilers themeselves) and could be used on passenger trains as long as there was a trailing boiler equipped F-7B  (or GP-9 or PA or E unit, yada, yada, yada). 

Andre

[twhite]

Hoople--

The passenger-equipped 'Black Widows' pulled the San Joaquin Daylight between Bakersfield and LA when the GS and MT series steamers were pulled off of the Tehachapi's.  The steamers would take the train from Oakland to Bakersfield, and the diesels would take over.  The combination of Black Widow's and Daylight cars was REALLY colorful!   

I also remember Black Widows pulling the "Overland" on the Donner Pass route, and occasionally, the "City of San Francisco", whenever the PA's were down for servicing.  They were also regular power on the "Overland Mail" between Oakland and Ogden after SP deselized the Donner Pass line. 

Tom

 

[Hoople]

I stand corrected. I guess they did pull SP daylight cars. I was just wondering because I couldn't find any cars that matched the engines.

[jrbernier]

  Black Widow F's were 'freight engines'.  The Black Widow's pulling passenger trains were FP7's, about 4' longer and boiler equipped.  The FP7's eventually wound up pulling just about every SP passenger train.  IIRC, they were intially assigned to overnight service between LA and San Francisco.  They migrated to the 'Overland' route, and the 'Shasta' route trains as the older PA's were pulled from those routes.  Amtrak even leased them for a while....

  Maybe some of the 'eSPee' guys have the definitive service histry of these engines and can share it with the group.....

 Jim Bernier

[Tracklayer]

I'm having issues trying to find out what they would typically pull. I know they wouldn't be pulling Daylight cars, but what would one expect to see a Black Widow F7A pulling in the 1930s-1956?

Uhhh. I beg your pardon Hoople... Apparently you've never seen the movie Bad Day At Black Rock. It opens with an Southern Pacific Black Widow F-7 A&B set pulling corrugated Daylight cars, and was supposed to be a couple of years after WWII. I have a train just like this that I've been running the last couple of years on my "southern United States layout" that looks a lot like the town and area in the movie.

Tracklayer

 

[Hoople]

I'm having issues trying to find out what they would typically pull. I know they wouldn't be pulling Daylight cars, but what would one expect to see a Black Widow F7A pulling in the 1930s-1956?