Thanks, Will, glad that you found some of this info of use.
Wayne
Well it pays to high jack a Mouse thread! Some excellent suggestions and a great tutorial on using masks for weathering. I used your name as a referee when I registered at zealot.com. Thank you for your contributions and enjoy your techniques.
Will
Another thing to keep in mind to make your taping job easier is to match the edges of the 3/8" and 1/2" drywall appropriately. If the existing edge of the 1/2" is a tapered edge, make sure that the abutting edge of the 3/8" is also tapered. Similarily, butt cut edges as pairs: this ensures that you don't have to use an excess amount of mud to level the two surfaces and that you'll not have a "hump" at the joint.
It's better to cut your Masonite too long, then trim it back as necessary. The radius here is about 12", but I've formed it down to about a 9" radius on some of the layout facia.
You know what they say about the only dumb question being the unasked one. I use it with the smooth side out. If you drill a pilot hole for the drywall screws (not necessary to drive the screw, but it does help to keep the screw from displacing material and making a bulge on the finished face), followed by countersinking for the heads of the screws, you'll most likely end up with some of the hardboard material around the holes being raised a bit beyond the finished face of the hardboard. I use some medium grit sandpaper to remove this, and at the same time, rough-up the surface of the hardboard along where the tape and joint compound will be applied. Three or four passes with the sandpaper should suffice. This seems to give the Masonite enough "tooth" to allow the compound to stick. And don't worry if you accidently carry the sanding too far beyond where you'll be taping, as the paint will fill in any imperfections. This method seems pretty stable: mine have been in place for over 15 years, with no signs of cracking or open joints. My layout is in an unheated, but well-insulated basement. I painted my backdrop (sky only at present - I may add other details and, of course, clouds at a later date, although part of the layout is meant to depict an area along the north shore of Lake Erie, so sky and clouds will be enough) using interior flat latex house paint, applied with a roller.
Doc,
I've been thinking of the masonite corners.
This may seem like a dumb question, but which side of the masonite to you point out? The smooth side must certainly have the same problem with drywall mud bonding as the the styrene.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Thanks, Kurt. Properly cured paint shouldn't react to the small amount of thinner that's being applied in this manner. I use lacquer thinner for Floquil paints, and this light application dries almost on contact. If the airbrush is too far from the work, it dries before contact, leaving a pebbly finish that won't stand up to handling. The glaze might be a good idea for washes applied with a brush, although I use PollyScale water-based paints for washes, which have no detrimental effect on the decals or the base paint, be it lacquer or acrylic.
Very nice Wayne.
One thing you - all of you - might want want to try as an alternative to heavily thinned paint is a glaze. High concentrations of thinner can lift decals and paint. A glaze is clear media tinged with color. Same effect, less risk.
KL
Repairman87 Doctor Wayne, The subtle weathering on the box cars is awesome. Can you share your method? Thanks!
Doctor Wayne,
The subtle weathering on the box cars is awesome. Can you share your method?
Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure what techniques I used on which cars, but I often give cars a very thin wash of PollyScale, usually a mix of browns and blacks, with a couple drops of dish detergent to make it flow more readily. The key to this is to keep too much of the wash from collecting and drying around details on the car, as it can end-up looking very blotchy. I usually do 5 or 6 cars at a time, and use a paintbrush or the corner of a paper towel to soak up the excess, moving continuously from car-to-car as they dry. I follow this up with airbrushed Floquil paints, usually leftovers from other jobs mixed together, and all of it about 10% paint and 90% thinner. To accentuate the seams between panels, I use either a sheet of paper or cardstock as a "mask", holding it close to, but not touching, the carside, then make a quick vertical pass with the airbrush. I also use masks cut from boxboard, like the ones shown below, to achieve the same effect in one or two passes.
A very basic technique to remove that "freshly painted" look, without making the car look too weatherbeaten, is an overspray of the same (or a similar) colour as the basic carbody: make sure that the paint is heavily thinned, then make quick passes from a distance. This will tone down the lettering so that it doesn't look so stark against the paint. A quick pass along the lower edges of the carbody, trucks, and underframe, using a suitably dusty colour, well-thinned, and you're done.
My apologies for taking this thread somewhat off-track again.
SpaceMouse wrote: Doc, Right now I have drywall glued to cinder blocks. But I don't have a good source for the styrene (and haven't looked very hard beyond my back yard. If I did round the corners with about a 1 ft radius, it would. 1) Look better.2) Make my compound perspective even more daunting. Still. if a sheet of styrene plopped into my lap...
Right now I have drywall glued to cinder blocks. But I don't have a good source for the styrene (and haven't looked very hard beyond my back yard. If I did round the corners with about a 1 ft radius, it would.
1) Look better.
2) Make my compound perspective even more daunting.
Still. if a sheet of styrene plopped into my lap...
You could use a utility knife to remove 4" or 5" of drywall about a foot from each side of the corner (the backing paper probably won't come off), then glue a shim of suitable thickness along the vertical edges, and insert a piece of Masonite like I described. While the styrene will work, drywall mud doesn't stick to it very well, so you might have trouble hiding the seam. The other downside to styrene is cost: the last time I bought a 4' x 8' sheet of .060", the price had increased by 50%, to about $30.00 (Canadian). The 1/8" Masonite (you don't need to use the more expensive "tempered" stuff) is about $4.00 or $5.00 for a 4' x 8' sheet. If you're looking for sheet styrene, check the Yellow Pages for "Plastic Suppliers" - many of them cater to the sign industry. You might also be able to get scraps, free, from one of those sign companies, but perhaps not large enough for doing your corners.
You didn't miss anything. Dog and I have been going back and forth for a while. He just jumped a few threads. I like what you have done with your backdrop. I have considered rounding my corners but just haven't done what it takes to get 'er done. From the point I am now, I would probably use a sheet of styrene to make the bend. Right now I have drywall glued to cinder blocks. But I don't have a good source for the styrene (and haven't looked very hard beyond my back yard. If I did round the corners with about a 1 ft radius, it would.
exPalaceDog[ Let's go back to the original problem, the back drop for the 1885 pike.
Let's go back to the original problem, the back drop for the 1885 pike.
Huh? Has the start of this thread been removed? I thought that we were talking about boxcars!
Anyways, I can think on my feet. (Some say with my feet) A good way to do corners (inside or outside) is to "cove" them. Mine were done when I finished the room for the layout, and this will probably give you the smoothest joints. When applying the drywall, using 1/2" board, (I applied mine vertically, as I feel that you get a better joint taking advantage of the tapered edges - butt joints are a lot more noticeable when under close inspection, like a backdrop will be) end the 1/2" board one stud spacing from both sides of the corner. Finish these spaces using 3/8" drywall, then use your tape measure to roughly measure the curve around the corner, from the edge of one 1/2" to the other. Cut a sheet of 1/8" Masonite (hardboard) to this width, then place one edge of it butted against one of the raised edges of the 1/2" drywall. Using both hands, press the vertical centre of the Masonite until the other edge pops into place. Ideally, the Masonite should be wide enough so that when it's in place, at least an inch or two of either edge will be lying flat against the edge faces of the 3/8" drywall. Even though this will stay in place, due to its being compressed, without further attachment, I like to secure it against vertical movement with drywall screws. Be sure to countersink the Masonite for the screwheads. Now tape and apply joint compound as required. Outside corners are only slightly more difficult. Use the same 1/2" to 3/8" preparation, but cut the Masonite wide enough so that it forms a "bulb" around the corner. Sometimes, it's helpful to use two stud spacings on either side of the corner, letting the back face of the Masonite touch the actual corner, then bulge out on either side, before flattening out where it meets the edges of the 1/2" drywall.
If the walls of your room are already drywalled, you can remove it at the corners and replace these areas with 3/8", then continue on. You can also use the Masonite to cove the corners by attaching it directly to the back edge of the layout, although making a smooth joint with the straight sections will be trickier, as this type of construction will be less solid.
exPalaceDog wrote: Agreed!Let's go back to the original problem, the back drop for the 1885 pike.The Old Dog has been wondering this; instead of painting the back drop on the wall, why couldn't it be painted on a series of panels hung from the wall or mounted on the back of the layout? That would make it easy to alter things if you don't like the results. You might even have different sets of panels for different seasons.Have fun
Agreed!
The Old Dog has been wondering this; instead of painting the back drop on the wall, why couldn't it be painted on a series of panels hung from the wall or mounted on the back of the layout? That would make it easy to alter things if you don't like the results. You might even have different sets of panels for different seasons.
Have fun
Dog,
It's one of those things. I'm not entirely sure what the problem is. I know that the backdrop will take a couple months to paint. I know what I am trying to achieve and I know I can do it. I just have an issue with the perspective in the corners, marrying the two walls.
On the other hand, if I had to solve the problem on my own, I'd sit under a tree outside and make sketches until I got it right. It could take hours or days, but eventually, I'd figure it out. But my wife, I feel could fix it in 10 minutes--but she keeps ducking me. Now she's gone for a couple weeks.
On the third hand, As soon as the backdrop is done, I have to come up with the money for the benchwork. In this case, the benchwork is a series of cabinet grade shelves that will house DVDs, Books, and form an entertainment center. So I may be subconsciously avoiding it because I'm going to run into a money crunch as soon as it is done.
Now here's the rub. Until I finish the entertainment center/shelves, there's no room for the PRR--well, I can fit in the city, but not the traverser. So I can work on it, but not accomplish much in the way of moving cars around. At least I can get them working.
So either way, I got to get my practice doing about double what it is now.
SpaceMouse wrote: Sometimes you just gotta stop talking about it.Dog,I know what sill means. I just couldn't see what they were talking about in the pictures. I fainally found a pic that shows it.
Sometimes you just gotta stop talking about it.
I know what sill means. I just couldn't see what they were talking about in the pictures. I fainally found a pic that shows it.
SpaceMouse wrote: Two questions:People keep referring to the sill. I have looked at a lot of pictures and I don't know what you guys are talking about.
Two questions:
People keep referring to the sill. I have looked at a lot of pictures and I don't know what you guys are talking about.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sill
SpaceMouse wrote:Second in regard to the Railway Express cars. They were part of the passenger service, but if passenger service no longer ran, would they be used to deliver mail with a local freight?
Second in regard to the Railway Express cars. They were part of the passenger service, but if passenger service no longer ran, would they be used to deliver mail with a local freight?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Express_Agency
The REA was a seperate company. In most cases their express was carried in baggage cars. But they did own some of their own cars which would have become surplus when the company was forced to quit using the railroads due to a lack of passenger (fast) trains. The reporting marks would have been changed if the cars were sold. Mail and express are seperate items even though they might ride in the same baggage car (bagged mail). In fact, the Post Office (parcel post) and REA were in competition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parcel_post
Thanks Kurt, I finally got a shot of the smooth end. In examining the photos, I can see about a zillion things wrong with the Bachman X-29. For one thing it has a built date of 2-24 and the dreadnaught ends--no new date.
exPalaceDog wrote:That would be a real shame. It should be a real attention getter in your office or waiting room, or perhaps in the store window to generate foot traffic.Have fun
It should be a real attention getter in your office or waiting room, or perhaps in the store window to generate foot traffic.
LOL!
If I put it in my waiting room, I'd never get any work done. (And I'd never leave work.)
Still....
SpaceMouse wrote: exPalaceDog wrote:Don't worry about it!! The thing that will make your Indiana Secondary layout is the structures. If you manage to get them half way close, the public will be amazed. "Hey, this scene really looks like our town did in the 1950's." You probably could use boxcar red painted wood blocks for cars and they wouldn't notice. You can always do a scratch build or kit bash later if you must have the car exactly right.Have funIn reality, I doubt anyone from around here will ever see it. Even if the modelers from my old club come by here and look they will be impressed. But then again, they were content to run any road on the club layout, in loops, and cared little that much of the track and rolling stock was not working properly. That is what led me away from them.
exPalaceDog wrote:Don't worry about it!! The thing that will make your Indiana Secondary layout is the structures. If you manage to get them half way close, the public will be amazed. "Hey, this scene really looks like our town did in the 1950's." You probably could use boxcar red painted wood blocks for cars and they wouldn't notice. You can always do a scratch build or kit bash later if you must have the car exactly right.Have fun
The thing that will make your Indiana Secondary layout is the structures. If you manage to get them half way close, the public will be amazed. "Hey, this scene really looks like our town did in the 1950's." You probably could use boxcar red painted wood blocks for cars and they wouldn't notice.
You can always do a scratch build or kit bash later if you must have the car exactly right.
In reality, I doubt anyone from around here will ever see it. Even if the modelers from my old club come by here and look they will be impressed. But then again, they were content to run any road on the club layout, in loops, and cared little that much of the track and rolling stock was not working properly. That is what led me away from them.
That would be a real shame.
Safety Valve wrote: Chip dont feel bad about your boxcar, Im sitting here wondering what to do with the one Passenger Express Boxcar in my walthers group of three. Maybe we should form a sort of a X-29 anon group lol.
Maybe we should form a sort of a X-29 anon group lol.
One day at a time.
Put down that box and step away from the counter.
Dave Vollmer wrote:I'm not sure what you're wanting to do here. On the one hand you want a level of accuracy I'm very impressed with, from using the Sanborn maps to plan your track to asking what PRR equipment would have been found there in 1950. But you don't seem willing to make the investment to actually follow through to that level of accuracy. If I had a better idea of your goal, I could probably give you better assistance. Or perhaps I'm providing too much unsolicited advice already. If you want me to shut up, I will.
If I had a better idea of your goal, I could probably give you better assistance. Or perhaps I'm providing too much unsolicited advice already. If you want me to shut up, I will.
Goal: To fairly accurately reconstruct downtown Indiana in 1950. My original goal was to rebuild the structures pretty accurately (If I can ever find pictures) and then start building resin cast cars with a high level of detail...but this is an extremely long term goal.
Kurt was kind enough to send me some article on the X-29s, but I had only downloaded them when I was driving by the LHS and got sucked in. The car I got is good enough for my son to learn with.
Which brings me to my wild card, my autistic son. He like to handle the rolling stock and push them around the layout by hand. He prefers this to running trains with the throttle. He has broken several cars already. So my short tern goal is to get the track up and running so I have some trains to run. I can see that it may be 6 months or so before I can run on my 1880's layout, and I'm stalled because I can't work out the backdrop the way I want it. The rub is that I haven't run anything at home for about a year. The only real obstacle I have on the PRR is coming up with the money for the track and that's about $90. In the meantime, I have enough materials to build the turnouts with a Fast Track jig.
So short term, I want to get the track work laid and put up cardboard structures until I can get some decent pictures of the area. Someone around here must have them. I plan eventually to go to the University library and peruse the microfiche to find what I can.
The cars I have while not that good will make for some fun while I work on it. Once the layout is moved into my office, I'll get down to the real details.
The other factor is that I am transition between a store and a new practice. The store never made a lot of money and the practice is building slower than I anticipated. The idea of spending $15 on a car, let alone $40 is daunting. Especially when I see my operating plan calls for quite a few.
And I have lived in a sort of cocoon in the 1880's. I'm still new at this game.
Your efforts are not wasted on me. But I do get impulsive at times.
SpaceMouse wrote: Well, I thought I done good. $15 is the most I've ever spent on a piece of rolling stock. Now you tell me it's doo-doo. So much for supporting my LHS. The Walther's tank car is probably not right either. I'm not sure I want to know.
Well, I thought I done good. $15 is the most I've ever spent on a piece of rolling stock. Now you tell me it's doo-doo. So much for supporting my LHS.
The Walther's tank car is probably not right either. I'm not sure I want to know.
Don't worry about it!!
Dont get me started on the PRR Bay windows....
I bought a Athearn RTR PRR Caboose of the two window variety that was RTR yesterday and after examining it... I dont think it looks half bad at all.. but does it match anything? Who knows!?
Perhaps it's time the manufactors get out of the 70's and 80-2000 rut with all the details that they lovingly lavish on thier 30 dollar products and concentrate on some of the earlier stuff. A Caterpiller boxcar gets more attention probably because those that buy such a thing work for Cat. And no, Im not knocking Cat, Ive used thier products for years.
Whenever a company makes trainsets aka Bachmann, Ive gotten quite choosey about which of thier rolling stock... if any to buy.
Chip dont feel bad about your boxcar, Im sitting here wondering what to do with the one Passenger Express Boxcar in my walthers group of three.
orsonroy The USRA steel, X29 and 1923 ARA boxcars are similar, but not the same cars.
The USRA steel, X29 and 1923 ARA boxcars are similar, but not the same cars.
I agree: that's probably why Train Miniature brought out essentially the same car with both flat and Dreadnaught-style ends. I think that the TM cars offer a decent starting point for modelling any of the prototype versions, and, depending on how much effort you want to put into the conversion, can result in a pretty convincing model. The TM cars can be had for under five bucks around here, used, but usually with Kadees. While I model neither the NYC nor the Pennsy, I recognise that these cars were so numerous that anyone modelling the steam or transition era should have at least a few of these cars on their layout. I model the mid-to-late-'30s on my free-lanced road, set in southern Ontario, and these NYC and PRR cars make up about half of my American prototype cars. The Red Caboose cars come in both the 1924 and 1930 versions of the X-29, so also offer both end types and different door options.
Both Mainline Modeler and RMC did good articles on the X-29 and the NYC cars, the former magazine dealing mainly with the prototypes, while Craftsman covered prototypes and modelling, using either the Red Caboose kit or resin craftsman-type models.
SpaceMouse wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Chip, a few hours of research can save you big $$$! Actually, I was excited to find one in my local store, and it was in a stack with Walthers cars, and well, I implicitly trusted the box and the X-29 paint on the side of the car. Live and learn.
Dave Vollmer wrote: Chip, a few hours of research can save you big $$$!
Chip, a few hours of research can save you big $$$!
Actually, I was excited to find one in my local store, and it was in a stack with Walthers cars, and well, I implicitly trusted the box and the X-29 paint on the side of the car.
Live and learn.
See, that's a problem. Manufacturers can't always be trusted. For example, how many times have you seen a bay-window or AT&SF-style caboose lettered for Pennsy? You and I know that Pennsy never ran anything like either, yet manufacturers have no trouble slapping PRR paint on things to sell a few.
I understand major manufacturers can't stay in business doing only road-specific models, and that it's necessary to paint certain models in a variety of popular road names rather than have a one-car one-road model (only the smaller guys can do that)... but you have to protect yourself.
I'm not sure what you're wanting to do here. On the one hand you want a level of accuracy I'm very impressed with, from using the Sanborn maps to plan your track to asking what PRR equipment would have been found there in 1950. But you don't seem willing to make the investment to actually follow through to that level of accuracy.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
dehusman wrote: Waaa. You have both X29 and X31 models available.If you model the 1880-1905 era, there hasn't been a new wooden underframe, truss rod car produced by a major manufacturer in the last 30 years. None. Nada. Zippo.We have dozens of variations of the 1937 AAR boxcar or USRA twin hopper. Not one truss rod wooden gondola in plastic other than train set quality. Other than craftsman wood or resin kits, there is ONE type of boxcar, ONE type of stockcar, ONE type of reefer and ONE type of tank car produced of at least "blue box" quality for the first 75 years of railroading, and the they were all designed over 30 years ago. Basically manufacturer think railroads were invented sometime after WW1.Waaa. You only have 3 or 4 choices of X29 model.Dave H.
Waaa. You have both X29 and X31 models available.
If you model the 1880-1905 era, there hasn't been a new wooden underframe, truss rod car produced by a major manufacturer in the last 30 years. None. Nada. Zippo.
We have dozens of variations of the 1937 AAR boxcar or USRA twin hopper. Not one truss rod wooden gondola in plastic other than train set quality.
Other than craftsman wood or resin kits, there is ONE type of boxcar, ONE type of stockcar, ONE type of reefer and ONE type of tank car produced of at least "blue box" quality for the first 75 years of railroading, and the they were all designed over 30 years ago. Basically manufacturer think railroads were invented sometime after WW1.
Waaa. You only have 3 or 4 choices of X29 model.
Dave H.
Point Taken--Actually I've got a decent supply of 1880's rollingstock. There is some Walther's, Bachman, IHC, and Manuta, but for the most part it's almost all MDC. And the Roundhouse is clearly the best.