UP plays the Scrooge on CBS Evening News

[Anonymous]

Sorry about that Al Jones...i have become very accostomed to being on this site right before bed and half asleep LOL

Merry Christmas to all

[FJ and G]

they are sending the same boilerplate response to everyone

[brothaslide]

I just received this response from Union Pacific from the letter I sent earlier today:

Thank you for sharing your concerns about Union Pacific's licensing program. Union Pacific announced a formal licensing program in 2002. The program for the model railroad industry was developed in consultation with the Model Railroad Industry Association. Rates for model railroad manufacturers are extremely low and small businesses are generally exempt from royalty payments. Media reports and internet chatter have inaccurately portrayed the royalty fees. On a $10 model, royalty rates are pennies. You can find additional information about our licensing program on our Web site at http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/modelrail.shtml.

[Anonymous]

Johnny Dash9
"To NSDRA1 and JohnnyDash9 and others, thanks for all the good info. All of what you said is most likely TRUE, however I believe that if model railroaders all sent emails to the top guys maybe they would see how SMALL a return they are going to get. We are not talking millions here as there are not that many modelers in the country and not all modelers have anything to do with UP."
Please read the beginning of my email again. It says that I AGREE with you. However this a free country and I do believe that its OK to express your opinion to those who don't agree with you. I expressed my opinion that all model railroader should email and tell them they are wrong. Do I think they will change their mind? Maybe,maybe not. At least they will know how I feel. I still don't have an answer to the question. I asked in the beginning Does anybody have these big wheels email address so I can sent them my opinions? I will keep looking and if I find it I will sent them an email regardless of the outcome. Have a great holiday to all

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Johnnydash9

i think we are both trying to say. No matter how much you write...your not gonna get anything done.

Sure, it won't get anything done but its like griping on this message board; we all feel a little better by venting.

Merry Christmas!

[Anonymous]

Al Jones...dont worry you didnt get me all stirred up LOL. I was very calm in writing that. Anyhow i wont speak for NSDRA1...but if i interperate him right, and along with my own views...i think we are both trying to say. No matter how much you write...your not gonna get anything done. Its like writing the president...do you actually think he reads all the email he gets? No. And im sure that the President and CEO and all the other Top Morons and UP dont read all their own email either. Hey, i could be totally wrong in that...but i still dont think your gonna get anywhere. About all i can say is..the day UP falls flat on their 1000 SD70M's *** will be the day a lot of people Cheer and Laugh.

[brothaslide]

Here is a letter I sent to UP via their web feedback page:

To Whom it May Concern;

I enjoy model railroading and was quite surprised to find out that Union Pacific was requiring licensing fees from model railroad manufactures for use of logos and trade mark materials.

Personally, I feel this direction that UP has taken seems to be a waste of time. Model railroad manufacturers have been producing UP rolling stock for decades without any concern regarding licensing agreements. Additionally, I believe that you (UP) are spending dollars to chase after pennies. I don't think UP stock holders would appreciate a revenue stream which requires more money to manage than it produces.

Look at it this way, you are promoting good will in the community by not charging for licensing but you are coming across as a greedy corporate entity by charging licensing fees.

Regards,

Sean Martin

[Anonymous]

To NSDRA1 and JohnnyDash9 and others, thanks for all the good info. All of what you said is most likely TRUE, however I believe that if model railroaders all sent emails to the top guys maybe they would see how SMALL a return they are going to get. We are not talking millions here as there are not that many modelers in the country and not all modelers have anything to do with UP. I myself will not have to worry about this no matter which way it turns out as I only collect and display models of the New Haven RR and I have bought all the equipment that I want. I also like to watch the real ones and have a one foot to one foot scale BNSF mainline running near the house so I can have perfect models of all types and railroads and not have to pay anything to see this "layout" run. I am sorry that I got some so stired up as to write novels about the principals of BIG business today. All I was looking for was several good addresses to sent my emails to so I could express my opinion to them which I believe is what all model railroader should do. I was always aware that it would most likely not change their mind. It never hurts to try.

[msprater]

Interesting to note -- the UP that wants to charge model railroaders for the use of their logo(s) is the same one that leases a station to Amtrak for $1 per year. Go figure. Give away property and draw blood from the fans.

[Anonymous]

NSDRA1...thank you for that long winded comment!!!!!!!!!! Ok that was me trying to be funny...i really liked what you had to say...you about summed the whole thing up. Me personally i dont own a single UP item. And i model a Freelance RR...so everything i buy just about is Undec...so not a soul can say i owe them crap. As for your opinion on railroads dying? Well not a single person here would want to admit your right...but you are. They are getting to big and the ones who are running them dont know what they are doing. I dont think that RRs will dissapear totally...but the big ones will eventually be chopped up and sold off and there will be a lot more regionals and smaller shortlines. Thats about the only plus side i can see tot he big RRs getting bigger...their lack of interest in running the little out of the way shortlines. Which if you have the money to start a business venture like that...seems like a good idea.

As far as st-UP-id is concerned...they are trying to be something they are not. If you look at UPs history...they liked to be innovators...they tested all the new crap (turbines and whatnot). They always had to be the Biggest and the Best. and now they are the biggest...far from the best. I think it makes them Jelous that their mahor competition in being First and New and The Innovator is the Canadian National. Remember the CN did mostly everything First. And they did a lot more then that. They basically invented the Wide Cab we have now. The had the first on train Phone. They built the Tallest Building on Earth (the CN tower). They were the first railroad in North America and still the only one to be a Transcontinental System East-West and are now the only one on earth or be East-West and North-South. I guess im trying to say that UP is acting like a child that isnt getting its own way. So what is it doing now...its being a spoiled brat...OH YOU WANNA PLAY WITH MY TOYS...WELL THEN YOUR GONNA PAY. Thats F***ing stUPid. Railroads are just like every other transportation company out there, (and i drive a truck for a living so i kinda know this)...they are always loosing and gaining business. One customer goes elsewhere...and one comes in...thats life. But how many RRs do you see advertising? Up and US...for what? You really think that shippers are watching MSNBC, MarketWrap, and the Bloomberg Report on the Finincial Networks to see which RRs commercial they like better as for who to ship with? I highly doubt that.

Im almost done....my prediciton...UP is the next Enron. I can just see it now...cuz if they are really that hard up for money...somone is dipping the till.

[Anonymous]

" saw the piece on CBS on Friday night and my thought was to fire off some emails to the Chairman/CEO,the President/COO, and the CFO. I was able to get their names but not their email address. Any ideas? Maybe if they got some input as to how petty they are, they might change their mind."

These folks could care less. Do high priced athletes care about charging kids $10 each for autographs? Do the Health Insurance companies really 'care' about you? It's all about the money. As far as us advertising for them. No way. Very few on this site, if any, have had enough folks (not the same folks day after day) view their layout(s) to be in anyway considered as advertising. No one on this site has told people to "ship BNSF, UP or whatever" because I/we run models of their trains. Besides, you can't emand payment for advertising, if you were authorized to advertise for a company in the first place. It's like placing a company name on the side of a race car. You'll get no money for it unless that company has signed a contract (sponsorship deal) with you. In fact, they can have you remove their name from the side of the car. In a case such as in racing, having the name on the side of the car, makes you a representative of the company. Not that anyone in their 'right mind' would ever beleive that because you have a UP or CSX or BNSF locomotive and rolling stock model train, that your represent the company. Though you never know. After all in this crazy time in which we live, an old lady was able to sue a fast food service (McDonalds, I believe) because she ordered and received a cup of hot coffee though the drive through. Then SHE spilled it on HERSELF and got burned, so she sued, and won, for the injuries she sustained! What did she think she was getting....a "COLD hot cup of coffee"?

UP and the other railroads have the right to do this. So far, only the GREEDY upper management folks at UP have made efforts to do such. I like the one guy's comment, " It's like Bill Gates suing schools kids for their lunch money". Don't put it past him though. He didn't become the richest SOB on the planet because he went out of his way to do any good deeds for anyone.

One of these days, railroading, as we know it will be gone. All the mergers and such have come about do to greed and mismanagement of companies. SP was one of the biggest. It's upper management were some of the greeediest. They single handedly destoyed an empire. In the early days, SP could have bought UP, but didn't want it. Now UP bought SP, along with WP and others. All of them were mismanaged and profits literally stolen by upper management (CEO's and such). For UP to become so worried about the literal 'nickels' that the model railroading industry might be making on it's logo and colors, only makes you wonders how badly their flag pole is 'cracking'. Think of the cost involved in a railroad and the limited routes they actually have. Trains only go where there are tracks and many new industries and businesses are nowhere near tracks. Tracks are expensive to install and maintain. Unfortunatley, I believe the days of railroads are nearing the end.There are plenty of faster and more direct ways to ship goods. Besides, most goods are no longer even made in the US! The day will come when there will be only ONE major railroad (like, I believe, it is in Cananda). Amazing. SP could not merge with Santa Fe because UP complained, But it was OK for UP to take SP? BN then went with Santa Fe. Now both railroads have all the same routes. Why do we need two big ones. Bye, Bye UP! Oh, and Santa Fe was no good player. They stole most of the assets of the SP during the short lived merger. Of course the same applies to the other two (CSX and Norfolk Southern). They could all be 'sucked up into one'. But don't for a minute take the statement that the railroads "helped build this country' as being anything close to a 'good deed'. Those railroad moguls were some of the most corrupt, cut-throat "businessmen" in the history of this country. they cared little about the country, only the money they could get there hands on. Doing good for the country wasn't even on their individualistic business plans!

It is funny, though. A lot of model train enthusiasts are also railfans and vise versa. If not for these folks, most of the railroad history would have been lost, No photos, videos, etc. Harrassed and/or arrested for taking pictures of their stuff. And these are the folks continually punished by these money monguls. What we need is the government to stop subsidizing these businesses. Without the government subsidies they receive, they would all dry up and blow away like the dust in the wind. They get subsidies from our tax dollars to help them survive and now they want money from us to model their logos (though this primarily deals with the modeling manufacturers, but this cost will be transfered on to us (the comsumers/modelers). And what about the possible demand for monies from reproducing logos of 'fallen flags' (SP, SSW/Cotton Belt, PRR, NYC, WP, etc). Why should they be concerned with logos they spent thousands of dollars trying to paint over? We don't want the logos anymore, just the money? The railroads of old helped to build this great country. That was in a time when there weren't too many ways to ship items or travel across the country. First the automobile then the the airplane literally wiped out passenger train service. Then trucking cut heavily into freight traffic and is still cutting into it. Everytime a product or commodity is handled, moved, packed for shipping it costs money. Rail travel is now only good for large shipments of items that do not have 'short time' delivery dates. Railcars must be loaded and then unloaded into waiting trucks. Probably why much of the rail shipping has changed over to containers. Ever noticed how those trains seem to be getting shorter, even with the more powerful locomotives?

And for those who said they were going to 'paint over' or otherwise destroy they UP model railroad stuff. I hope you were just venting. Don't do it. You spent a lot of time accumulating that stuff to make your model railroad better and more authentic. UP (and the other railroad companies) could care less what you do to your stuff, your house, your layout or anything. The only person your hurting is yourself.

I think only one guy hit the real problem on the head. That was the guy that identified the model train manufacturing, distribution and retail industry. One or all of them are the one's making money on the logos, though I do not bleieve that ws their direct intention in the beginning. They were only trying to make the trains as close to the real thing as possbile for US (the model railroader/consumer). Many make equipment from nearly every railroad, not just UP. That includes those with only small or local followings (some short lines) and railroads that have been gone for years (PRR, B&O, WP,SP, etc). Also piant schemes not seen in nealry 50 years (SP Black Widows, etc).

In the direction UP seems to be pursuing, you could no loner take photographs of anything. Because everything is owned in whole or some part by someone and that someone or persons would need to be paid. If you took a scenic photograph of a wooded mountain area and intentionally or unintentionally got the logging/lumber company in the photo, you would need to pay them for the photo, especially if you sold it.
Now I understand the intelligence of the UP folks. Their name is actually St-UP-id. They just couldn't spell it right. "St-UP-id is as St-UP-id does". I'd better be careful. I might have to pay for that statement!

[Anonymous]

I think the model manufactures should charge the U.P. for all the years of free advertizing that they have been getting!!! I will no longer run U.P. on my layout nor rio grande or southern pacific!! The U.P. must be hard up for money, they should keep their
engines out of the dirt and on the track instead harassing modelers!!!

[msprater]

There are things that can be done. (1) E-mail the UP. John Bromley is in Public Relations. I did. (2) Notify manufacturers that you will not purchase equipment that has a railroad surcharge attached. Suggest that they offer "near-decorated" schemes, sans decaling or identifying markings under license, which can be purchased separately and for far less than the cost of a car. (3) Don't threaten not to run UP cars and locos. Silence is golden and the railroad won't care. Rather, threaten to not patronize businesses which ship via UP or associate with their industries, or not ride trains on their tracks, or ship via UP yourself, and recommend that all your friends and business associates do the same. (4) Use "reverse advertizing." We who run UP equipment are, in fact, promoting and advertizing for the Union Pacific RR (as I pointed out the JB. Maybe the railroad should pay us!). Weather your UP stuff before other stuff -- make it look really dirty and ugly. Make rolling stock and trackside structures with UP identification look in need of repair. If you are running layouts and modules at train shows, make sure that all other RR equipment looks great and the UP stuff looks absolutely and noticeably terrible, and if someone asks why, tell them you're reflecting the attitude of the UP. That will have a much farther-reaching effect than just removing the equipment from the layout. Put that dirty UP unit coal train off the tracks in the hole and have a nice, clean, bright BNSF (trackage rights, right?) roaring past, delivering the goods. What goes around, comes around.

[CP5170]

Their website is www.up.com and the have a feedback section if you want to let them know how you feel.

[Anonymous]

I saw the piece on CBS on Friday night and my thought was to fire off some emails to the Chairman/CEO,the President/COO, and the CFO. I was able to get their names but not their email address. Any ideas? Maybe if they got some input as to how petty they are, they might change their mind.

[Anonymous]

Why not bill UP for the "free advertising" they get when you run your locos and cars with UP on the side.

[Anonymous]

My layout no longer will run UP cars. I will be sticking to just my Canadian Pacific cars and my UP rolling stock will be receiving CP paint jobs soon after Christmas. What next?

[eastcoast]

HOW RUDE THEY ARE.
I HAVE UP EQUIPMENT AND PROBABLY NOT FOR MUCH
LONGER. I am considering repainting ALL UP cars I have.
Hey, what's next, "UP sues the individual modeller for color
theft. Film at 11 !!!"
These practices are stupid and bad for their public image.
They are attacking the group of citizens and companies.
UP should be happy to get the recognition they do. Us modellers
are not going to harm the operation of this class 1 road.
GIVE ME A BREAK. I THINK I'LL REPAINT THOSE CARS RIGHT NOW !!!

[tomytuna]

I don't think they send new train sets to their stockholders for christmas....NOT good Marketing idea on their part.......anyone want to make models of my trucks and give me free advertizing..please let me know!.....lol...merry christmas all Tom

[CP5415]

I guess it's not long before the rest follow suit? I hope not!!!
I hope only UP is the only railroad with it's head up it's own butt!
I guess this means if I want to use my UP livery locomotives & rolling stock I have to close all the blinds & crank the music up so that Uncle Pete doesn't hear me use a locomotive with UP painted on the side so they can't charge me by the hour for using one of their locomotives

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[vsmith]

I found it funny in a sad way that the Suit from Uncle Pete had the gaul to say "we're not trying to be Scrooges here" What a load! I have one ( 1 ) UP boxcar on my large scale line and I have an overwhelming urge to repaint the logo to read

"Uncle Pete's Sour Pickles"

[Anonymous]

I saw that piece. Now if UP were going after a brand new railroad company using their colors, I could understand, but model railroads. Come on!

[Bergie]

Last night's CBS evening news (December 18, 2003) had a piece about UP collecting royalties from the model train industry. You can currently watch the video on their site, but I'm not sure how long it will be there.

To find the video...

Go to: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml#eveningnews

Scroll down to the light blue I-VIDEO ON DEMAND box for CBS Evening News

Select "Model Train Money Battle" (If the story isn't listed in the blue box any longer, do a search for Model Train Money Battle)

Select your video player choice and the video will load.