3 questions to get started in model railroading

[Anonymous]

Well, this is my first post, and obviously I am very new to model railroading. My first attempt was short lived and a long time ago as an 9 year old. I spent more than 9 hours yesterday looking through every website I could find to get information on how to start up, and I was hoping to get a little more help from this site.

I know that I want to use HO scale, and I understand that there are a few different guages of track that HO uses. I am trying to figure out why, and which are best. I also have noticed that there are many types of engines that fit two types, steam and diesel, but I am not sure what the different major specs for each are to look for, and what they mean.
I looked around this forum briefly as well, to find out specific information. There are still many other questions that I have, but I first need to find out three things:

1) Track - What are the different types of track guages for HO scale? Which is the most common, and what are the sizes for the guages?

2) Locomotives - What are major specs to look for in an engine? What specs are most important to look for, especially for a real beginner like myself? What are the major differences between steam and diesel engines? (Are there others?) Is there any difference in power in the different engines for either type, or is it all in the power pack?

3) Power Packs - How do you pick a power pack? I want to run two to three locomotives with about 5 cars apiece. Are there fundamentaly different types of power packs, and if so what? If they are all fundamentally the same, what specs to you consider when choosing one?

Finally, if there is anything major that I am not asking, that I should be...let me know. And if I have any jargon wrong correct me.

I realize that I have a lot of questions, and you may tire of seeing yet another "how do I get started thread", but this seems like a great repository of information, and that is what I need right now. I would appreciate any and all information, and thank you ahead of time.[:)]

[nfmisso]

Wooly;

Let's shoot a couple questions back at you:

What era are you interested in? For example, my main focus is 1950 to 1955, and I cheat a bit.

What geographic area are you interested in? My choice is the mountains of Virginia and West Virginia.

Are you interested in history?

What is your budget? Both immediate, and amount per month/year. In 2003, I have spent between $2000 and $3000.

Know on to sort of answering your questions.

1) Standard guage HO is 16.5 mm, that is most common. It represent 4' 8½". 3ft narrow guage is a major minority player, which is 11.5 mm. HOn2½ is another, more common in Europe, runs on 9mm guage track.

Then there are track codes; 100, 83, 75, 70, 55, 40 are "standard". The code refers to the distance from the bottom of the rail to the top of the rail in units of .001". Thus code 100 is a tenth of inch tall. Code 100 is a bit oversize, code 83 is roughly scale for USA mainline, code 70 heavy duty yards, spurs and branches, code 55 typical branches, spurs and yards, code 40 light duty. Code 100 is standard in trainsets, and still the most common. The lighter rail is more easily damaged.

2) there really are no specs per se; look for opinions on operating characteristics, reliable and fidelity to the prototype (aka detail). For USA style steam locomotives, currently in production, the Bachmann Spectrum brand, Life Like Proto 2000, Broadway Limited, and Trix are superior. Some Rivarossi is very good, some is not. For diesels: Atlas, Kato, Life Like Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, and Stewart are the most detailed. Proto 1000 and Athearn RTR are fine operators, with a bit less detail. I have locomotives from many manufactures, don't get hung up on a brand, get what suits you.
http://www.atlasrr.com/
http://www.katousa.com/
http://www.athearn.com/
http://www.stewarthobbies.com/
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.html
http://www.broadway-limited.com/
http://www.lifelikeproducts.com/proto/index.htm

3) as you are just starting out, and want to run three seperate trains, no question, go with DCC. I would suggest the Digitrax Zephyr, the Atlas system (made by Lenz) or the forth coming Bachmann system (also made by Lenz). See: http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm

The model railroad hobby can be as in depth as you want to make it. It combines Engineering, History, Physics, Geography, Geometry, Current Events, Art, Landscape, etc. etc. Most importantly, have fun.

[IRONROOSTER]

Well I'll start the answers,.
1)Gauge refers to how far apart the rails are. All track marked HO is the same gauge (scaled down from 4' 8 1/2") and is sometimes referred to as standard gauge. HO narrow gauge track is marked HOn3 or HOn30. These two gauges are scaled down from 3' or 30" and are thus narrower. Most HO trains are standard gauge but are not marked as such. Narrow gauge trains are marked as HOn3, or HOn30. In addition to gauge there is a code for the track size code 100 uses track .100" high, code 83 is .083" and so forth. Thus you can have HO code 100, HO code 83, HO code 70, etc. all with the same gauge. HOn3 code 70 would be a different gauge from HO code 70, but the rails are the same height. Most HO trains will run on HO code 70 and higher (code 100 is the most common). Thus you can use multiple code sizes for the same train, but you will require transiton track or transition rail joiners to switch from one to the next.

2)All HO locomotives have electric motors. Most run on DC current with pick up from each rail which are electrically opposite and use DC power packs(except Marklin brand which uses AC 3 rail) ). Some locos are set up for dcc which requires dcc controls (these locos will be so identified) Bigger locomotives generally require broader curves.

3) To run 2 or 3 trains at once, but control them separately you need a throttle for each train if you use DC (some power packs have two throttles). If you use dcc you can use one throttle and switch it from one loco to another. dcc decoder boards can be added to regular DC locos.

This site under ABCs of Model Railroading on the main page has some good beginner information. www.nmra.org also has a beginners page.

Feel free to post additional questions (best done as a new topic each time), the folks here are friendly and have a wealth of knowledge and opinions.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

Wooly;

Let's shoot a couple questions back at you:

What era are you interested in? For example, my main focus is 1950 to 1955, and I cheat a bit.

What geographic area are you interested in? My choice is the mountains of Virginia and West Virginia.

Are you interested in history?

What is your budget? Both immediate, and amount per month/year. In 2003, I have spent between $2000 and $3000.

Know on to sort of answering your questions.

Then there are track codes; 100, 83, 75, 70, 55, 40 are "standard". The code refers to the distance from the bottom of the rail to the top of the rail in units of .001". Thus code 100 is a tenth of inch tall. Code 100 is a bit oversize, code 83 is roughly scale for USA mainline, code 70 heavy duty yards, spurs and branches, code 55 typical branches, spurs and yards, code 40 light duty. Code 100 is standard in trainsets, and still the most common. The lighter rail is more easily damaged.

Thank you so much for your reply.

As for your questions:

I am not sure of an era yet, but it will likely be a mix. I like the steam locomotives of the late 1800's, and I like a lot of stuff before 1950, but not much after that.

Geographically, I like the west and midewest. I want to incoporate moutains and desert, and an idealic farm or two.

I don't mind mixing and matching eras and geography that I like.

Budget is still an issue. I have been looking around to get a feel for how much things cost for the level that I want engage in. I am under a thousand to start with, and I plan on adding incrementally each year. I don't mind building slow, especially since I don't know exactly what I want. For instance, though I want 2-3 locos eventually, I am only going to start with one. The scenery will partially bought, and partially made.

Now another question: why all the different track codes? Your answer made it sound like someone might use code 70 for the yards, spurs, and branches becuase they are heavier, but then 100 for the rest. So, you can interchange the track codes on a line of track?
If 100 is most common for HO scale, I will go with that[:)].

[Big_Boy_4005]

Woa, Wooly, slow down,let's learn to walk before we try to fly. The decision to go with HO is a good start. I recommend that you stick with standard guage, unless you have something in particular in mind. There is a lot of good, reasonably priced equipment available.

I would like to help you, its my nature, I used to work in a hobby store, and did this for a living.

Its kind of like buying shoes, you're the one who needs to be happy and comfortable, and there are so many choices. Your questions will start to answer themselves, as you get further into the hobby. But first, I have some questions for you.

How old are you?
Do you have a hobby store near you?
Do you have an idea for a layout?
Do you have a space chosen for a layout?
Do you have a favorite railroad?
How much money do you want to spend?

Let's start with that for now. This will help to define where you want to go in this hobby. By the way, I've been in this hobby for over 30 years. Feel free to email me directly, if you don't want to answer those questions here.

I see that you have gotten some responses since I composed this, and have answered some of my questions.

[Anonymous]

The most important question at your stage is this, what scale will work best with the space I have available? 4 by 8 HO layouts are fun at first, but they get boring quickly. If your space is smaller than this, definitely go N scale. If the location is larger than that required to accommodate a 4 by 8 layout, then HO is a good scale.

Next, I am going to make one of those universal statements that I am going to contradict in about three sentences, but here goes. Only buy quality engines, there are no bargains. The engines you buy are going to be with you a lifetime in all possibility, so you want them to last and you want them to run well, and be realistic ("prototypical"). Now of course I am stretching the truth, there are some good bargains just waiting for you, but you had better know what you are doing. Just about every new modeller has been burned by buying something they regretted latter. In fact, I think it is a right of passage into the hobby.

But if you see an engine out there calling your name, if you can force yourself, come to a forum and ask advise. There are certainly some bad ones just waiting for you as well as the good ones.

And now for the controversial advise. If you know in your heart you are going to be in the hobby a lifetime, then just go DCC. The Digitrax Zephyr is a fine entry level unit that will grow with you and become part of a more complex system if that is how your tastes run lets say ten years from now. There are "starter train sets" in Europe (Marklin) for example that are now coming with a "starter" DCC system. The reason I make this recommendation is this: eventually you will go DCC. If you become like me and my son, after we bought our DCC system, we then had three MRC power packs sitting around not really doing anything (gave one away to a buddy). So you are out of pocket the power packs (although they can be used to run accessories, but so can a cheap $5 power pack), plus the controllers, selectors, etc to block run your train.

DCC is not just about running trains without reliance on "blocks" but as decoders come out with new options, you will definitely want some of them. Things like sound, less reliance on track power, cruise control, consisting (MUing), jazzy lights, automatic uncoupling, automatic selection of trurnouts to be thrown when a train comes out of staging or enters a yard, etc.

Also when purchasing that new engine, find out how easy it is to put a decoder in it. Some engines are very easy to add a decoder to (they are called "decoder ready"), other engines are used as a torture test to break the enemy down to reveal secrets as they are forced to add a decoder and make it work properly (N scale Kato Mikado's can drive a man to drink).

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Wooly
Now another question: why all the different track codes? Your answer made it sound like someone might use code 70 for the yards, spurs, and branches becuase they are heavier, but then 100 for the rest. So, you can interchange the track codes on a line of track?
If 100 is most common for HO scale, I will go with that[:)].

Sort of, but backwards. Code 100 is heavier than Code 70. Real railroad track comes in a variety of thicknesses (measured in pounds per foot of rail) which varies depending on era and location: over time, as trains got heavier and heavier, rail got heavier and heavier to hold it up. Heavy rail is used on the mainline and lighter rail on sidings and in yards.

Code 83 track is a good happy medium--fairly common and cheap, but lighter than the most common Code 100 rail--and if you're planning on modeling a steam-era layout (late 19th or early 20th century) then lighter rail is the way to go.

You can mix different weights of rail on a layout--you use a special connector that connects the two sizes of rail together instead of a regular rail joiner. It isn't done too often--most model railroaders tend to just use one size of track for simplicity--but it can be done and is a nice touch.

A piece of advice--hit a library and check out every book on trains and model railroading you can! They will help educate you about the prototype as well as modeling techniques, and it is easier on your modeling budget to borrow books for a library (as long as you return them on time!)

Oh yeah, and if there is a railroad museum near you, check it out.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Wooly

Well, this is my first post, and obviously I am very new to model railroading. My first attempt was short lived and a long time ago as an 9 year old. I spent more than 9 hours yesterday looking through every website I could find to get information on how to start up, and I was hoping to get a little more help from this site.

I know that I want to use HO scale, and I understand that there are a few different guages of track that HO uses. I am trying to figure out why, and which are best. I also have noticed that there are many types of engines that fit two types, steam and diesel, but I am not sure what the different major specs for each are to look for, and what they mean.
I looked around this forum briefly as well, to find out specific information. There are still many other questions that I have, but I first need to find out three things:

1) Track - What are the different types of track guages for HO scale? Which is the most common, and what are the sizes for the guages?

2) Locomotives - What are major specs to look for in an engine? What specs are most important to look for, especially for a real beginner like myself? What are the major differences between steam and diesel engines? (Are there others?) Is there any difference in power in the different engines for either type, or is it all in the power pack?

3) Power Packs - How do you pick a power pack? I want to run two to three locomotives with about 5 cars apiece. Are there fundamentaly different types of power packs, and if so what? If they are all fundamentally the same, what specs to you consider when choosing one?

Finally, if there is anything major that I am not asking, that I should be...let me know. And if I have any jargon wrong correct me.

I realize that I have a lot of questions, and you may tire of seeing yet another "how do I get started thread", but this seems like a great repository of information, and that is what I need right now. I would appreciate any and all information, and thank you ahead of time.[:)]

Congrats on a return to Model railroading. Also Congrats to your first post. You will find out that on the forum will be a GREAT source for information. We hope you become a regular. [:)]

I'm a amutar / novice So I can't answer your questions directly, so I will answer them in the best of my knowage

2. Well, what kind of specs are you looking for? there are Detail and Performance. The higher up the price line, the better the detail and permorfance are. Some might go faster than others, but that's mainly because of the gearing inside. to me all you need is somthing in mind and every thing else fall into place.

[Anonymous]

The short answer to various track codes is that they represent the rail used in that period. Code 55 would be typical of rail in use in the late 1800s, code 70 around the turn of the century up through about 1920, code 83 from the mid 1920s through the post war period and code 100 represents the heaviest track in current use. Obviously some lighter (ie smaller) rail persisted into the later periods in branch line and yard service. The general rule of thumb is the heavier the traffic in terms of usage and weight of rollingstock the heavier the code of the rail.

For a beginner all this discussion of 'code' is largely academic. Though it matters to me and many others its really not critical at your stage.

As to locomotives: Steam and diesel HO engines use the same electricity for power and are similar 'under the hood'. In general a diesel of the same weight will pull a bit better than a steamer. Another largely academic quesiton at your level. If you definately prefer one over the other go with it.

The power pack question, at your level stick with DC until you decide whether you are going to both stick with the hobby and need to go with DCC (digital command and control). DCC offers lots of options for operation which DC doesn't but is correspondingly more expensive. Also DCC is getting cheaper as time goes on. In that sense its similar to computers.

You have noticed that many of your answerers ask 'what era are you interested in?' The reason for this question is that the choice or era determines the answer to two of your questions. Those of rail code and engine type. Give it some thought, once you decide other decisions flow from it.

I STRONGLY SUGGEST, INDEED URGE YOU to read as many of the getting started in the hobby books as you can. Kalmbach publishes several you would find useful.

Also visit your local model railroad club or clubs, even if these are different scales than you intend to use. Many of your questions are more easily answered with visual aids aka model railroads ;).

As you go along and questions arise use this forum to pose them. We all need advice and suggestions from time to time. Its the reason for this forum.

[Anonymous]

Welcome back to the hobby.

1-There is no dumb question
2-There is plenty of time to ponder issues
3-Run your railroad the way you want to
4-Take it easy on some major issues that will come up
5-Have fun!

With that said, I myself use Atlas Code 83 track. The switches are #4 for the yards and #6's where the big engines must go. I like to try and keep my radius 24" in the main. I encourage you to carefully consider your engine area, yard and industries for your frieght cars. A passing siding on any size layout will assist you greatly in operation.

You are wanting to run several engines. That is great. However. DCC is the way to go but be very careful about decoders and sound. Some engines sold will need to be taken apart just to be fitted with electronics. Others such as sold by Broadway Limited come ready and senses DCC or DC operation.

Power packs come in a variety of sizes. If you buy a DC power pack (Non-dcc) stay away from anything the size of a cigarette pack. You will regret it. Also known as train set power packs. But they are too cheap and likely to cycle off or worse burn out.

Track. Brass is a pain to clean and keep clean. Go with Nickel Silver. That seems to be the best. Steel is ok better than brass. But NS is the way to go. There are ways to paint rails economically and with enough care still maintain good electrical contact.

Now.. You are going to decide about

Plastic wheels?
Metal wheels?
Horn and hook couplers?
Kaydee Couplers (The orginal and the very best)
McHenry or Other similar couplers?

Kind of freight cars?
Passenger cars?
And how will you do your town or city?
And industries, places to load and unload your rail cars?

There are many many more than I can think of here. But to me, the number one (UNO BESTEST TOPS) RULE... is find a good hobby shop. With a person or people that are willing to answer your questions, show you how it runs, teach you from right and wrong and perhaps bring your coffee and pastry ... oops did I say that>> oh well. Ill settle for the questions and product (engines) demonstrations and are willing to assist you with very minor issues. And in my book one that offers a small discount on large ticket items such as locomotives is very invaluable.

I encourage you to keep using these forums. For instance I am learning how hobby manufacters are moving towards "taking orders then making just enought to fill orders" aka Limited run Some of these are announced years in advance and when you do see one they are no longer availible.

A budget will assist you greatly to avoid binge buying. I am guilty of ordering 300 dollars worth of stuff from time to time on impulse. It may take me 6 months to save 300 dollars for the next impulse "Oh I wanna that" but certainly keeps things in focus.

I myself am allowed 30 dollars a month more or less and have been working on it for about 2 years now. That adds up to about $750- not including the expensive engines and stuff. I consider expenses on a Hobby as good as this one better than hospital bulls resulting from stroke or heart problems due to stress. I believe that it has helped me thru life's ups and downs.

You will also discover Ebay and trainshows... be very very very (Cannot stress enough) very damn careful with your money. There are many ways to represent a product and truly are some very good bargins out there but on the other side there are lemons there that possibly will drive you away from the hobby forever.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!