Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Gandy Dancer wrote: hminky wrote:Not Sn3 but Sn3.5 Wouldn't that be Sn42 then?
hminky wrote:Not Sn3 but Sn3.5
The majority of modelers, those in New Zealand, modeling 3-1/2 foot guage use the term Sn3.5. Therefore that is the most logical convention.
Harold
on30francisco wrote: IRONROOSTER wrote: on30francisco wrote: hminky wrote: ereimer wrote: Harold , aren't you going to get the same complaints from the Sn3 people about your Sn3.5 modelling that you got from the On3 people about your On30 work ? Mainly that there was little or no US prototype 3.5' narrow guage ? I have found the S scale people are more tolerant than O scalers. That may seem to be an awful thing to say but I have found that to be true in my modeling experiences. There is a faction of O scalers, not tinplaters, especially narrow gaugers that seem to be guardians of the grail and the one true scale. I have experienced so much negativity in the O Scale world.Since S scale has been always a minority scale there seems to be more tolerence to embrace everyone involved in S scale.Besides the railroad is a fantasy what could have been scenario.HaroldIn my personal experience I've found the few people who are intolerant of On30 modelers either have a fat wallet to afford the very expensive brass locos of On3 or have access to a machine shop to get every detail down to the nth degree. Most people I've met are very positive about On30. I've tried S scale in the past and agree that perhaps it is the ideal size (I like the size much more than HO) but the downside is that locos are very expensive. Thanks to the excellent On30 equipment from Bachmann, it is possible for anybody to model in narrow gauge without secong mortgaging the house or being a master craftsman - and with all the advantages of O scale. The most open-minded group of modelers I've met are those in the Large Scale community. This is one of the many reasons I've been leaning toward modeling narrow gauge in Large Scale in addition to On30. Well, Bachamann has a On30 2-8-0 for $245 and American Models has an S 4-6-2 for $299.95. Granted there are no engines for $85 like the Porter, but there are diesels for under $200 (some as low as $149.95). Their freight cars are in the $31 to $42 range while S freight cars are $36 to $42 for comparable. So I don't think the cost difference is that great. I think the only significant price advantage is in the HO bargain lines. While there are advantages to O, there are also disadvantages. This is of course is true for all scales. But if you look here http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html I think you'll find S is a very viable choice. And Sn3.5 will work very well for low cost narrow gauge with all the advantages of S. EnjoyPaul True, the cost of On30 locos and rolling stock is high if you're paying the MSRP. Trainworld, Ridge Road Station, and many other discounters sell On30 locos and rolling stock for almost half the MSRP. Trainworld's current price for the On30 Bachmann Consolidation is $139.99.
IRONROOSTER wrote: on30francisco wrote: hminky wrote: ereimer wrote: Harold , aren't you going to get the same complaints from the Sn3 people about your Sn3.5 modelling that you got from the On3 people about your On30 work ? Mainly that there was little or no US prototype 3.5' narrow guage ? I have found the S scale people are more tolerant than O scalers. That may seem to be an awful thing to say but I have found that to be true in my modeling experiences. There is a faction of O scalers, not tinplaters, especially narrow gaugers that seem to be guardians of the grail and the one true scale. I have experienced so much negativity in the O Scale world.Since S scale has been always a minority scale there seems to be more tolerence to embrace everyone involved in S scale.Besides the railroad is a fantasy what could have been scenario.HaroldIn my personal experience I've found the few people who are intolerant of On30 modelers either have a fat wallet to afford the very expensive brass locos of On3 or have access to a machine shop to get every detail down to the nth degree. Most people I've met are very positive about On30. I've tried S scale in the past and agree that perhaps it is the ideal size (I like the size much more than HO) but the downside is that locos are very expensive. Thanks to the excellent On30 equipment from Bachmann, it is possible for anybody to model in narrow gauge without secong mortgaging the house or being a master craftsman - and with all the advantages of O scale. The most open-minded group of modelers I've met are those in the Large Scale community. This is one of the many reasons I've been leaning toward modeling narrow gauge in Large Scale in addition to On30. Well, Bachamann has a On30 2-8-0 for $245 and American Models has an S 4-6-2 for $299.95. Granted there are no engines for $85 like the Porter, but there are diesels for under $200 (some as low as $149.95). Their freight cars are in the $31 to $42 range while S freight cars are $36 to $42 for comparable. So I don't think the cost difference is that great. I think the only significant price advantage is in the HO bargain lines. While there are advantages to O, there are also disadvantages. This is of course is true for all scales. But if you look here http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html I think you'll find S is a very viable choice. And Sn3.5 will work very well for low cost narrow gauge with all the advantages of S. EnjoyPaul
on30francisco wrote: hminky wrote: ereimer wrote: Harold , aren't you going to get the same complaints from the Sn3 people about your Sn3.5 modelling that you got from the On3 people about your On30 work ? Mainly that there was little or no US prototype 3.5' narrow guage ? I have found the S scale people are more tolerant than O scalers. That may seem to be an awful thing to say but I have found that to be true in my modeling experiences. There is a faction of O scalers, not tinplaters, especially narrow gaugers that seem to be guardians of the grail and the one true scale. I have experienced so much negativity in the O Scale world.Since S scale has been always a minority scale there seems to be more tolerence to embrace everyone involved in S scale.Besides the railroad is a fantasy what could have been scenario.HaroldIn my personal experience I've found the few people who are intolerant of On30 modelers either have a fat wallet to afford the very expensive brass locos of On3 or have access to a machine shop to get every detail down to the nth degree. Most people I've met are very positive about On30. I've tried S scale in the past and agree that perhaps it is the ideal size (I like the size much more than HO) but the downside is that locos are very expensive. Thanks to the excellent On30 equipment from Bachmann, it is possible for anybody to model in narrow gauge without secong mortgaging the house or being a master craftsman - and with all the advantages of O scale. The most open-minded group of modelers I've met are those in the Large Scale community. This is one of the many reasons I've been leaning toward modeling narrow gauge in Large Scale in addition to On30.
hminky wrote: ereimer wrote: Harold , aren't you going to get the same complaints from the Sn3 people about your Sn3.5 modelling that you got from the On3 people about your On30 work ? Mainly that there was little or no US prototype 3.5' narrow guage ? I have found the S scale people are more tolerant than O scalers. That may seem to be an awful thing to say but I have found that to be true in my modeling experiences. There is a faction of O scalers, not tinplaters, especially narrow gaugers that seem to be guardians of the grail and the one true scale. I have experienced so much negativity in the O Scale world.Since S scale has been always a minority scale there seems to be more tolerence to embrace everyone involved in S scale.Besides the railroad is a fantasy what could have been scenario.Harold
ereimer wrote: Harold , aren't you going to get the same complaints from the Sn3 people about your Sn3.5 modelling that you got from the On3 people about your On30 work ? Mainly that there was little or no US prototype 3.5' narrow guage ?
Harold , aren't you going to get the same complaints from the Sn3 people about your Sn3.5 modelling that you got from the On3 people about your On30 work ? Mainly that there was little or no US prototype 3.5' narrow guage ?
I have found the S scale people are more tolerant than O scalers. That may seem to be an awful thing to say but I have found that to be true in my modeling experiences. There is a faction of O scalers, not tinplaters, especially narrow gaugers that seem to be guardians of the grail and the one true scale. I have experienced so much negativity in the O Scale world.
Since S scale has been always a minority scale there seems to be more tolerence to embrace everyone involved in S scale.
Besides the railroad is a fantasy what could have been scenario.
In my personal experience I've found the few people who are intolerant of On30 modelers either have a fat wallet to afford the very expensive brass locos of On3 or have access to a machine shop to get every detail down to the nth degree. Most people I've met are very positive about On30. I've tried S scale in the past and agree that perhaps it is the ideal size (I like the size much more than HO) but the downside is that locos are very expensive. Thanks to the excellent On30 equipment from Bachmann, it is possible for anybody to model in narrow gauge without secong mortgaging the house or being a master craftsman - and with all the advantages of O scale. The most open-minded group of modelers I've met are those in the Large Scale community. This is one of the many reasons I've been leaning toward modeling narrow gauge in Large Scale in addition to On30.
Well, Bachamann has a On30 2-8-0 for $245 and American Models has an S 4-6-2 for $299.95. Granted there are no engines for $85 like the Porter, but there are diesels for under $200 (some as low as $149.95). Their freight cars are in the $31 to $42 range while S freight cars are $36 to $42 for comparable. So I don't think the cost difference is that great. I think the only significant price advantage is in the HO bargain lines.
While there are advantages to O, there are also disadvantages. This is of course is true for all scales. But if you look here http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html I think you'll find S is a very viable choice. And Sn3.5 will work very well for low cost narrow gauge with all the advantages of S.
Enjoy
Paul
True, the cost of On30 locos and rolling stock is high if you're paying the MSRP. Trainworld, Ridge Road Station, and many other discounters sell On30 locos and rolling stock for almost half the MSRP. Trainworld's current price for the On30 Bachmann Consolidation is $139.99.
True enough, I also buy most of my S scale trains at a discount - in the last year I have made purchases at 25% to 50% off msrp. I admit that finding S scale discounts is a little harder, but they are out there.
One nice thing is that On30 is very close to S standard gauge - I have seen Bachmann On30 passenger cars used as standard S. In fact I bought a few to do it myself since there are currently no open platform S scale passenger cars.
Gandy Dancer wrote:Sn3 has been a serious but expensive scale for years and years. I had several friends convert from HOn3. How is that beating the high cost of On30? I resume you are using HO scale mechanisms and building on them. Why couldn't you do that for On30?
Not Sn3 but Sn3.5 in the 1870's. You can't build a convincing common carrier narrow gauge locomotive in On30 based on an HO mechanism.
JBB wrote: , and to hell with the critics!
, and to hell with the critics!
If you have no critics then you are inside "the box" not thinking. Who wants to be in "the box" with them?
Harold: Just wanted to let you know that I've really enjoyed your work and your creative thinking. Like you I've never met a 4-4-0 that I didn't like! Your work with the Bachman 4-4-0 inspired me to work mine over and they are great runners now. Thanks!
I also took your advice on the Roundhouse 4-4-0. Got a bum one I think as it won't pull as it ought to. Think I may have traction tire issues, but I'm sure I'll figure it out. Meanwhile, if you got any advice, I'd appreciate it.
In any case keep up the good work, and to hell with the critics! The rest of us look forward to more info on your current projects.
Thanks again
JBB
hminky wrote:...Besides S scale is the one true scale, seriously, it is the best size for layout building, bar none.Harold
Besides S scale is the one true scale, seriously, it is the best size for layout building, bar none.
I couldn't agree more.
When I first started my On30 site promoting the Bachmann equipment I was bombasted by the "critterists" that there was only one true On30 and the Bachmann equipment was a heresy.
How far we come
hminky wrote: Did I say anything was wrong with On30. I am just offering an alternative for modeling the 1870's. Lighten up Bob, I am not killing your puppy.Harold
Did I say anything was wrong with On30. I am just offering an alternative for modeling the 1870's. Lighten up Bob, I am not killing your puppy.
(Sigh) Yet another request for folks to lighten up...just a wee bit....please!
Harold, good for you. I hope you find yourself launched.
Railphotog wrote: This thread should be called "Beat the High Cost of 1800's On30". Bachmann's offerings are extremely popular, they must be doing something right for many modelers. Of course there will always be those on the fringes who want something entirely different.
This thread should be called "Beat the High Cost of 1800's On30". Bachmann's offerings are extremely popular, they must be doing something right for many modelers. Of course there will always be those on the fringes who want something entirely different.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
ereimer wrote: i'm getting dizzy trying to follow what scale/guage you're modelling but it seems like you're still having fun
i'm getting dizzy trying to follow what scale/guage you're modelling but it seems like you're still having fun
People who rubber gauge are looking for something. I was looking for a 4-4-0 in the 1870's and ready to run freight cars to go with it. It eventually all comes together. One step begets the next step.
i really liked the clinic on converting the new Roundhouse 4-4-0 plus the IHC 4-4-0 into a good running version of the IHC . i might have to steal that one !
The only reason I was in On30 is they offered Ready to Run rolling stock. The prospect of assembling a zillion box car kits or scratchbuilding them is depressing.
I tried Sn3.5 back in the 1970's but there were no easily convertible freight cars. I tried Sn3 in the mid-1980's but the freight equipment was too 1900's Colorado and they didn't have a 4-4-0. Now there is Railmaster in New Zealand but a $600 dollar locomotive kit is out of my league.
Bachmann only wants to build hinky On30 now, only 30 inch prototypes and isn't going to build a 4-4-0. I was going to order two MMI 4-4-0's but when the bill says $800 bucks it causes a tremor in the force. So I have moved on. I have always found S to be the perfect size. I haven't had this much fun since the "ill fated" OO/HO project. That was almost Sn3.5, but there were problems in the execution.
My gosh, Harold, you're just all over the map!
Stick with On30. I need the helpful tips.
I wanted to model the 1870's in On30. MMI is bringing out a 1870's 4-4-0, but $400 dollars, HOLY MOLY!!!!!. The Bachmann Mogul looks silly with a ballon stack when you see it in person, it is an 1880's state of the art loco, not 1870's.
Going back to my original roots and my rubber gauging lifestyle, I found the alternative, Sn3.5.
Click image to enlarge
Sn3.5 allows realistic models to be built from HO mechanisms. You can only build caricatures or industrial tramways in On30 using HO mechanisms. Mantua Oldtime 1860's are a $7 dollar street value narrow gauge box car. 3-1/2 foot gauge was the original common carrier narrow gauge instituted in Norway and India in the 1860's.
Fight the high price of narrow gauge and visit my Sn3.5 page at:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/s_scale/
Thank you if you visit