Big Boys & Alleghenies, Poo!! Class "A" Rules!

[Morpar]

All this Big Boy vs. Allegheny talk got me thinking, has either of these locos been under steam in the last, say, 25 years? No? I think that a N&W class A HAS been, thus making it the biggest, baddest, bestest, of them all! 1218 could have pulled all the Big Boys and Alleys left before NS forsook her! So there!

Just remember, 1218 could be running again rather easily, that can't be said for the wanna-bees!

The gauntlet is thrown down, who will pick it up?????

[Anonymous]

What about the 8 Big Boys which remain? I suspect several of those could be put back into service just as easily

And UP still has a Challenger in service (Which I suspect is the largest you'll see under steam anytime soon).

[Anonymous]

Right on mykroft! Some of those Big Boys could be put back into service fairly easily, infact there's a site about restoring one, can't remember the name....... try www.steamlocomotive.com and see what you can find.

[Morpar]

I've seen the site about restoring the Big Boy in Texas, they were needing parts (main or side rod) from other locos to cobble it together. Ran out of money and never got very far. Then the movie deal fell through, and it just stopped. Last I heard 1218 basically needed coal, water, lube, and a railroad to run on! MAYBE if a Big Boy or Allegheny were under steam I could change my mind, but I still say 1218 is, was, and will be the best! I will give 3985 a close second though.

By the way, I have seen 4017(?) in Green Bay and been in the cab, so I will admit the things were HUGE, but eastern steam is better!!

[Anonymous]

There are two H-8 Alleys remaining. One is in Baltimore and the other is in Michigan. The one in Michigan was driven on steam into the museum under own power and still drips lube oil to this day.

Now before you get all steamed up, remember that the Yellowstone's 2-8-8-4 was pretty big and bad. After another debate regarding the Bigboys, that engine is pretty close too.

[vsmith]

In all probability, Niether of them (BB or the Alley's) will ever be run again, unfortunatly. Just too much money to bring a steam loco back from the grave. Dont believe me? Just ask any live steam excursion/tourist train operator what happens to there beloved live steamer fails to pass its boiler examination. Years of repairs,costs, and loss of revinues from people who would come out to ride behind a steamer but wont when theres a lowly diesel pulling the train. Just think how much fun it would be going to Durango to ride up Animas Canyon only to find there steamers were layed up for 5 years getting there boilers rebuilt, and that a diesel switcher (they do have one) was going to be pulling you to Silverton.Whenever a big steamer sits for a long time the boilers can suffer from rusting in places you would never think possible. there have been instances where the whole boiler must be rebuilt in order to bringa tourist engine back. Now for a 2-8-0 or a 4-60 or similar smaller engine this might be financially feasable, but who in their right minds would want to rebuild a boiler for one of those monsters, and where would it be done? UP's Challenger has never been put out to pasture, she's never been taken off the roster, and always well maintained. I'm not a old discouraging sourpuss, just a pragmatic sourpuss.

[Anonymous]

You know if a bunch of you Big Boy fans approached UP and suggested they take the 5% that they want to charge the manufactureres for copy right licensing and donate it to a restoration trust fund you might get to see a BB in flight again.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

You know if a bunch of you Big Boy fans approached UP and suggested they take the 5% that they want to charge the manufactureres for copy right licensing and donate it to a restoration trust fund you might get to see a BB in flight again.

But where could you run it? they never strayed far from there stomping grounds because of the lack of adequate facilites.

[Morpar]

That brings me back to 1218. After her initial restoration, she was going places that the "A" class never went in their glory days. The facilities just aren't an issue when you are talking about the best! They even ran 1218 through Peru, Indiana! This is flat-lands guys, not the areas normally home to big, articulated steam! And they didn't have ANY trouble getting her around the "new" areas. Like I said before, the Big Boys and Alleghenies just can't compare to an N&W class "A" in full steam!

[Anonymous]

yeah id go with HighIron....id take a DM&IR Yellowstone anyday over a BigBoy or an Alley....even better than that id take any one of the SP AC series Cab Foreward..or a Clinchfield Challenger

[AggroJones]

Yeah. What about the later Cabforwards? Did they rank up there with the A class, H-8, 4000 class, M-4? I don't hear any one definding them.

[Anonymous]

well Aggro i guess you and i will have to just take over the "Defending the Cab Foreward" LOL...i mean afterall id say from the AC7 on up (minus the AC9) they were just as cool IF NOT COOLER than the Big Boy...Remember they had Airhorns too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AggroJones]

The AC-12s could generate 6000 horses at 40 mph and 124,300 lbs tractive effort! So that puts them right up in there. BOOYAAA!

[Anonymous]

Ya'll nuts. The BB, Clinchfields, Class A's, Alleghenys, Yellowstones, AC-1-12's are all beautiful engines. To bad NS ended their steam program and CSX, well I'll leave it at that. You forget some of the other engines that have been restored and run. UP 844, ATSF 3751, SP&S 700, MIL 261 NKP 765 ?, SSW 819, and lets not forget the SLSF 1522, and N&W J 611.[:p] Even though I've seen the 3985 many times, it is still exciting to chase her.
Ch

[Anonymous]

Well I think the 3985 will be the only operating mallet for a while (maybe forever) because of the things, money, money, and money, it would costs millions to restore a mallet PLUS they are to big to run on 95% of the track in the USA. I read an article on the UP steam program once and Steve Lee said they had no plans to restore a Big Boy because of the reasons I mentioned above nd the fact that "Most people that ride don't know the difference between a 4-8-8-4 and a 4-6-6-4".

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting conversation, but the same defending and bragging on certain locomotives has been going on since railroading began. I was privileged to be at Roanoke in 1956 for a week and watched the A's in action with large coal trains. They were very impressive, but never ventured from the N&W tracks like the diesels do now. I got to see the 1218 run on a passenger excursion, but it was not built for that purpose.


The actual weight on the drivers and the number of drivers is the main factor in drawbar tractive effort, but horsepower is developed by the cylinder, driver size, boiler pressure and the ability to make steam in great amounts, which involves the firebox size along with the design of the flues and combustion chamber.
I have included an Excel chart that shows the specifications for several of the largest 8 driver type steam engines and two of the 6 driver engines. The specifications are in Steam’s Finest Hour and are fairly close to actual numbers. The numbers tell much of the story and if you analyze the requirements that the railroad had when they designed the locomotive, you can come up with many results. For instance, the C&O wanted to move heavy coal trains, 14000 tons or more at a reasonable speed and do it efficiently. They were designed to replace the 2-10-4’s that had moved this coal and other heavy freight prior to the Allegheny’s. Both types were used on general freight also, but the bottom line was the heavy coal trains that C&O moved.

I had to eliminate several other engines due to the excell chart not fitting in this format.
Here are some specifications to compart your favorite lage engine to each other.


Road UP N&W C&O DM&IR
Class Big Boy A Allegheny Yellowstone
Drivers 4-8-8-4 2-6-6-4 2-6-6-6 2-8-8-4
Weight Drivers545,000 432,350 471,000 565,000
1 Driver axle 68,125 72,058 78,500 70,625
Adhesion Factor4 4 4 4
Engine Weight772,000 573,000 724,500 699,700
TE In lbs. 135,375 114,000 110,200 140,000
Drivers Size 68" 70" 67" 63
Cylinders 4 4 4 4
Cyli size 23 3/4" x32" 24" x 30" 22 1/2" x 33" 26" x 32"
Pressure 300 lbs. 300 260 lbs. 240 lbs
Grate Area 150 122 135 125

Compare and give me your thoughts.

Sorry about the table not lining up correctly, I have tried to correct it, but have not been able to fix it. I looks correct with the excel chart but does not translate over to this format the same way. Each number can be read in order for each engine that is listed. They do not fall directly below the particular engine.

[Anonymous]

Sure the class A's are big and powerful. But are they the biggest? No sir. UPs 3985 is the biggest operating today and will probably be the largest to ever run after diesels took over.

[orsonroy]

Big Boys, class A's, Allegehneys......they're all mountain pigs. Gimmie a nice Van Swerwingen Berkshire on the head of a 79 car hotshot freight doing 85 MPH any day! Freight engines that regularly pass NYC and Pennsy passenger trains; now THAT'S big time steam action!

Of course, a bad day with a steam engine is better than any day with a diseasel!

[Anonymous]

The Big Boy is capable of 85+ with 140 car freights. The Alley never really had a chance to get up and run being stuck in the hills. Theroatically it can take 140 cars up to 70 or more and keep it there. I dont know the class A but it must be awesome in it's own right.

These "Pigs" could sizzle. =)

[Anonymous]

Why did UP have big engines anyway? Even before Sherman Hill was realigned te grade wasn't THAT steep, even into the diesel era they still ran big engines, today they don't even use helpers!

[BRAKIE]

Ray said:Gimmie a nice Van Swerwingen Berkshire on the head of a 79 car hotshot freight doing 85 MPH any day!
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There ya go,there ya go..A regular freight hauler built for speed.We have seen 2 of that class in operation..The 1225 and the 765.[:D][tup]

[Anonymous]

I beg your pardon, UP does use helpers today, but they are referred to, in modern terminology as DPU, or distributed power units, commonly seen on the rear end of loaded unit coal trains as pushers, being controlled from the head end by radio signals.


Mac

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trackster

I beg your pardon, UP does use helpers today, but they are referred to, in modern terminology as DPU, or distributed power units, commonly seen on the rear end of loaded unit coal trains as pushers, being controlled from the head end by radio signals.


Mac

Really, I've asked here before and I only got the word "no".

[Anonymous]

No there are coal trains coming thru my town several times a day all have UP units on the head end and the pusher at the back. There is a slight .4% grade and there is alot of growling and shoving going on.

Horsepower is king. Need more? just add more engines until train moves.