Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
The K4s probably disappeared by the early 1950s... I know in later years a doodlebug did the honors for the Parkton local.
Up until 1954 the line was double-tracked. Photos show a very well-maintained track. However, there were curves which precluded some of the larger steam equipment (although, ironically, the Baldwin Centipedes are rumored to have done time on the line!). P70s and K4s would have been the norm prior to dieselization on the line. In fact, the Pennsy's only two K5 Pacifics also ran there! They ended up their lives out of Camden, NJ, doing the PRSL thing.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Thank you for the information!
In the online write up of the Parkton Local, there was a comment made that two K4's were double headed to pull as many as 14 Passenger cars while assaulting the New Freedom Grade. I was not able to find out more about this train as of yet. I did not think that heavy passenger service ran on the NCRR. Was that line strong and well maintained to the point of such big trains?
Now I am curious about that book, can you provide the ISBN Number of it?
Piedsou wrote: Try getting a copy of Morning Sun's book "Trackside on the PRR North of Washington, D.C. with Wayne Sherwin'. There are a number of photos on the Northern Central between Baltimore, York and Harrisburg. Most of the photos were taken in 1956-57. Dale Latham
Try getting a copy of Morning Sun's book "Trackside on the PRR North of Washington, D.C. with Wayne Sherwin'.
There are a number of photos on the Northern Central between Baltimore, York and Harrisburg. Most of the photos were taken in 1956-57.
Dale Latham
HA! I just bought that book this weekend at the museum in Strasburg. Used the member's discount. Awesome book! Had a lot on the York Haven to York segment -- also worth modeling!
acmatth wrote: Dave, Here are a few online sources that may be helpful: http://www.bullsheet.com/news/200406.htmlhttp://www.bullsheet.com/news/199406.htmlAlso, the book by Robert L Gunnarson "The Story of the Northern Central Railway: from Baltimore to Lake Ontario" may be of help. I have seen photographs of K-4 Pacifics pulling commuter trains between Parkton and Calvert Station on morning runs at Ruxton, so I know that they were used on that line. Later, through passenger trains to Buffalo used E-units I believe. I was in Monkton on Thursday. I'm glad the line has been preserved as a bike trail but its sad to see it gone.
Dave,
Here are a few online sources that may be helpful: http://www.bullsheet.com/news/200406.html
http://www.bullsheet.com/news/199406.html
Also, the book by Robert L Gunnarson "The Story of the Northern Central Railway: from Baltimore to Lake Ontario" may be of help. I have seen photographs of K-4 Pacifics pulling commuter trains between Parkton and Calvert Station on morning runs at Ruxton, so I know that they were used on that line. Later, through passenger trains to Buffalo used E-units I believe. I was in Monkton on Thursday. I'm glad the line has been preserved as a bike trail but its sad to see it gone.
Sir,
What a read! Im going to have to look at maps to re-familiar myself with this part of Maryland.
I joined the B&O group for the same type of information that you are looking for and their are a couple of very knowledgable people that are not worried about just the B&O. Should of explained that the first time out. I apologize for not being clearer.
Kevin
Safety Valve wrote: Desiels? Probably the E units. I think those were able to get into places that some of the heavier steam could not despite greater bridge plate loadings. The desiels were dynamically "Smoother" therefore easy on the light track than the hammering of the steam.Harrisburg, and Baltimore were Electrified towards NYC and the GG1 was king.They would run two and I think they tried three but found the wire overload.There is a picture somewhere I think inside a hardcover book on Maryland railroads (Have to dig it up) that showed a Passenger train on that line "The General" which had a hodgepodge of sleepers from all sorts of railroads hurrying south.If the PRR had it you bet they ran it, just not into that area between York and Baltimore perhaps.
Desiels? Probably the E units. I think those were able to get into places that some of the heavier steam could not despite greater bridge plate loadings. The desiels were dynamically "Smoother" therefore easy on the light track than the hammering of the steam.
Harrisburg, and Baltimore were Electrified towards NYC and the GG1 was king.They would run two and I think they tried three but found the wire overload.
There is a picture somewhere I think inside a hardcover book on Maryland railroads (Have to dig it up) that showed a Passenger train on that line "The General" which had a hodgepodge of sleepers from all sorts of railroads hurrying south.
If the PRR had it you bet they ran it, just not into that area between York and Baltimore perhaps.
E7s/E8s were used on passenger, right... and of course the NCRR was not electrified till it met up with the line off of Shock's Mills Bridge at Wago Junction through LEMO to Enola. This was north of York.
I don't know about triple-headed GG1s, but I know they tripled up on the P5a's quite a bit.
Still looking, though, for freight diesel info.
I've heard that I1s and M1s were restriced from the NCRR.
I imagine (but would like confirmation) that H-classes and the L1s 2-8-2s were the mainstay steam. The PRR's only two K5 4-6-2s were asigned to the NCRR for awhile for passenger service.
I'm wondering what sort of freight diesels were run there. I have Sharks, Alco FA/Bs, and Geeps, and so they would run on my layout anyway (modeler's license; see, I have one too!), but if they used, for example, a lot of Alco RS's, then I know what to buy.
Im thinking M1a's and smaller. Those had good tonnage ratings around the region and districts between Baltimore and surrounding areas in the PRR. You wont find J1, I1sa's of that nature in that part of the Mid-atlantic, however the WM had some of thier giant I2 2-10-0's at Riverside while the B&O kept the EM-1's, 2-8-8-0 and other big engines like the 2-10-2 generally at Brunswick and sent them back west.
The Western Maryand, Ma and Pa were into everything. You cannot move in the area between Baltimore, Taneytown, New Oxford, York and over towards Peach Bottom without tripping over something. Heck even the Reading and the D&H got down intoe there.
The PRR kept the 2-10-0's and other heavy stuff at Harrisburg generally west and north towards Smoakin or Sunbury.
Not sure if the B&O site's going to help with a PRR branch... I'm not looking for info on the MD end, but on the PA end.
Western Maryland connected with PRR on the north end of the line.
I'm looking for very Pennsy-specific info. I have plenty of photos and diagrams of right-of-way, structures, etc. I'm mostly looking for which locomotive classes were used on the north end of the line between York and Parkton in 1956.
Thanks anyway for the suggestions.
You could try the B&O yahoo group for information.
I'll have to check my references to confirm dates, but the Northern Central had a big station at Calvert and Centre Streets downtown. I believe this was the terminal used for most commuter operations into the 1950's due to its closer proximity to downtown compared with Penn Station, which was farther north on the outskirts. Calvert Station was torn down in the late 50's to make way for the current Sunpapers offices.
There are some good published photos of it, if you plan to "go there" with your model railroad.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Employee time tables - try this link
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ett.html
Topo Maps
http://historical.maptech.com/index.cfm
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/citymapgeogindex1.html
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/pa/county/
Route Maps
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Pennsylvania_RR_1899.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Pennsylvania_Railroad_1911.jpg
Have fun
Heck, Call him up and get him to read to you those pages LOL. Taken by itself kinda is like eating Pot Roast without the taters and gravy, gotta read the chapter too to get the full picture. The Ma and Pa was quite dominant in that area.
It is also my understanding that the PRR ran trains towards Baltimore along what I think is now I-83 but am not certain. Most certainly the PRR ran trains to Baltimore from Harrisburg, Philadelpha, and Washington Potomac Crossings and infested Maryland with lots of little trackage soaking up the rail business in the area alittle bit.
http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Search of Site for "Northern Central Revealed this:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/drye/index.ws4d
Thanks!
My father has that book. I'll have to borrow it next time I'm up in NY.
Get this book:
"The Ma & Pa" from Author George W. Hilton
Subtitle: "The History of the Maryland and Pennsylvania Railroad"
Published by John Hopkins, second edition revised.
ISBN 0-8018-6294-9
I think it further explains that it is by "The Johns Hopkins University Press" with a address of www.press.jhu.edu
Physical address inside the book shows it to be 2715 North Charles Street Baltimore Maryland, 21218-4363 Published the year 1999 for this particular edition.
If you cannot find it in the bookstore, try a "Inter-Library Loan" which may be better for you considering the book lightly touches on the Northern Central as related directly to Ma and Pa and not particularly about the NC itself.
A check of the index in the book specifically for the "Northern Central" Reveals pages 6,8,16,23,48,77, 180 and 187 as containing references to this item. A moment following up on these pages reveal that the book touches upon Northern Central as needed to support the Ma and Pa material in his writing with little useful items but nothing particularly deep into that particular railroad.
I'm looking for information regarding operations on the Pennsylvania Railroad's Northern Central branch, specifically between Baltimore, MD and York, PA, in 1956.
I'm interested in what locomotives were used (steam or diesel). So far I've been told E7s/E8s on passenger, and a mix of non-specified diesels for freight. Looking to narrow that down. For steam I've been told H-class 2-8-0s, K4s and K5s 4-6-2s, and L1s 2-8-2s. Any others?
Also, anyone know where online I can get a hold of employee timetables or dispatcher train sheets for the stretch between York, PA and Parkton, MD?
I'm considering this stretch of railroad for a future layout, but I'd like to know a little more about operations. The scenery is awesome, and the 1-2 track mainline is manageable. But I want to know more about what trains they ran.
I know that there were passeneger connections to Harrisburg and Buffalo from the Northeast Corridor at Baltimore. I also know coal trains went south from Enola to Baltimore. Plus the usual locals, etc. What else?
Thanks in advance.