CAZEPHYR wrote: The lowest reserve price I could find was $245.
The lowest reserve price I could find was $245.
The BLI/PCM Big Boy will be great if they get a sufficient amount of reservations. The lowest reserve price I could find was $245.
By the way, Check out the web pages below. Both Accucraft (1/32) and USA (1/29) are importing the Big Boy. Now you can have one giant 1/29 or slightly less 1/32.
http://www.accucraft.com/AM98114%20BIGBOY.htm
http://www.largescaleonline.com/cgi-bin/eimages/eimages.cgi?direct=Team_Member_Pics/bigd/USA_Trains/USA_Trains_Big_Boy
cudaken wrote: Simmon, how does your Big Boy Run? Did you only watch or did you bring any of your engines and run them Sunday? You got to love K-10 Trains, that is one heck of a bench. I think one of the reasons so may manufacturer's make the Big Boy is they are after the new people like me. With only being into steam for 5 months even I knew about the Big Boy and it's alure. One of the guys named Tom that help me with my GS-4 problem (took the leap of death) was at K-10 running his Challenger. I was all stuck (spell check) with it running on the test track! Guess the main stream is leaveing the lesser know engine to the brass companys. Time to work on the bench again Cuda Ken
Simmon, how does your Big Boy Run? Did you only watch or did you bring any of your engines and run them Sunday? You got to love K-10 Trains, that is one heck of a bench.
I think one of the reasons so may manufacturer's make the Big Boy is they are after the new people like me. With only being into steam for 5 months even I knew about the Big Boy and it's alure.
One of the guys named Tom that help me with my GS-4 problem (took the leap of death) was at K-10 running his Challenger. I was all stuck (spell check) with it running on the test track!
Guess the main stream is leaveing the lesser know engine to the brass companys.
Time to work on the bench again Cuda Ken
Ken the Rivarossi runs OK. It is quite an old model and does not have the detail of the newer models. I have not converted mine to DCC as yet so run it on the 00 mode on my Digitrax that allows a DC loco to run. I can't say I have ever tested the pulling power, but it has never failed with anything I have given it to pull. I typically don't bring my locos to K-10 for these Sunday sessions, I know a lot of folks do. One chap this week had a new lash up pulling Accurail open car carriers with 160 vans, he said the train weighed over 20lbs without the locomotives.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
AggroJones wrote:In theory, wouldn't out beloved Missabe M4 2-8-8-4 be a hit with the public as well? Its HUGE too.
In theory, wouldn't out beloved Missabe M4 2-8-8-4 be a hit with the public as well? Its HUGE too.
And much more appealing!
I hate Rust
simon1966 wrote: I took the boys to K-10 trains for the Sunday operating session. What is everyone oohing and aahing at? That's right the Athearn Big Boy and a pair of Challengers in different schemes. I think that the bottom line is that like it or not, these large articulateds are very popular with the general public and sell well for that reason.
I took the boys to K-10 trains for the Sunday operating session. What is everyone oohing and aahing at? That's right the Athearn Big Boy and a pair of Challengers in different schemes. I think that the bottom line is that like it or not, these large articulateds are very popular with the general public and sell well for that reason.
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
simon1966 wrote: And why I do it in the first place!
And why I do it in the first place!
I agree with Tom - that shot is priceless. It could be one of the classic Lionel ads.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Simon--
Keep it up, good fellow--the look on those two youngster's faces is everything one could hope for the future of the hobby.
Good show!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Here are a couple of shots of the layout for fun.
twhite wrote: Hoople wrote: I regret posting this thread. A few "cool's" and "neat's", but mainly people just argueing about "Oh no another big boy" when its a PCM one with better electronics and authentic sound for $300 less. And now people are saying "Oh they should make this yada yada yada."Could we get back on topic-topic being a new big boy... and NOT about how theres to many big boys.Hoople: Please don't regret posting the thread, but I have to admit that lately there's been so many conflicting threads about BB's that the announcement of yet another one is bound to get a lot of people scratching their heads and going: "Why?" For UP steam fans, it's probably another chunk of really Good News, but for a lot of us that are starving for other articulateds--well, like I said, it's just a head-scratcher. I'll be interested to see what they do with the Blue Line BB as compared with their other version, I'm always interested in seeing how newer steamers compare, but the loco just won't work on my layout, so I'll be reading about it as an interested observer, not a potential customer.Hope it's a good one, and you like it. Tom
Hoople wrote: I regret posting this thread. A few "cool's" and "neat's", but mainly people just argueing about "Oh no another big boy" when its a PCM one with better electronics and authentic sound for $300 less. And now people are saying "Oh they should make this yada yada yada."Could we get back on topic-topic being a new big boy... and NOT about how theres to many big boys.
Hoople:
Please don't regret posting the thread, but I have to admit that lately there's been so many conflicting threads about BB's that the announcement of yet another one is bound to get a lot of people scratching their heads and going: "Why?"
For UP steam fans, it's probably another chunk of really Good News, but for a lot of us that are starving for other articulateds--well, like I said, it's just a head-scratcher.
I'll be interested to see what they do with the Blue Line BB as compared with their other version, I'm always interested in seeing how newer steamers compare, but the loco just won't work on my layout, so I'll be reading about it as an interested observer, not a potential customer.
Hope it's a good one, and you like it.
cudaken, I had an oppertunity to buy a matched set of 4 Athearn Blue Box F units years ago and for 70 dollars I would have. But I already heard and seen the announcement that the "Genesis" F units were coming out soon with my roadname and much better detail. I held off. Ultimately there are quite a few models of the F units availible now but I only wanted to choose just one set. The BLI set is everything I could want. If they released another F unit set, I wont want one now.
I am in experience with the older AHM articulaeds that I was allowed to run as a young person from time to time and it performed very well. Having two of them (Big boy and a Y6b) start about 50 feet worth of rolling stock with a slack run out of at least one foot was an experience.
That was back before DCC, metal wheels, kaydees etc even existed. All of that was with good old 12 volt with beefy amps to combat the track resistance.
We have just too many Big Boys, the manufactors are cranking em out by the dozen while the EM-1's and other engines get neglected. There is money potential and I will be willing to spend it on one or two articuleds each year but because all I see are "Big Boys" Challengers and such... I dont have anything worth buying unless I went to brass.
I probably will cave in and BUY a big boy and be done with it at some point in the future but the engine will most likely sit in the box for 15-30 sad years becuase there is no real reason to run it except to have the "Ooh" from a visitor or two. I already have a roundhouse FULL of oohs ready to go.
Hoople, soory as well. I guess I sort of missed the point. It not that people don't like the Big Boy (well there are a few) but the fact BLI is not making other great Steamers that I have yet to see and know about and the New Blue Line could be making them instead.
With luck I will have 2 PCM's, 1 GOOD Athearns and a Blue Line in the next few months. I have vesions of a Doubled Head Big Boy's dragging coal cars up my new 3% grade.
As far as getting Bored with another Big Steamer, HUM. Don't we all get bored with what we have? Last year I was hot and heavy for F-7's, now have around 6 of them. Then I was hooked on PK E-6's and have 5 of them A & B's. Then it was for Dash 9's, well only one of them. Next I got hooked on steam, 2 GS-4's, Hudson, M1a (that is a steam engine) Class J and Heavy Mike. They ruled the bench for 5 months. Other night I got a bug up my tender and pulled out the E-6's. It is now like seeing the first time again. One is pulling a 30 car drag on the DCC line and have a triple head sitting on a passing spur while the Big Boy is making it run.
If we all never got bored with are engines then why are there people here that have 100, 200 engines plus? Speaking for my self being still a little new at 17 months in this hobby I now have around 53 engines and around 200 rolling stock. Reason, got bored.
Cuda Ken on a quest again and again and again
Uuh, yeah, .....we did get a little carried away there. Sorry, Hoople.
How about something like a decent HO SD9 or GP9? The P2K versions look okay but run poorly, and the Athearn versions have the non-scale width hood. The Atlas version GP9 runs nice, but has the sidesills molded onto the chassis ... what a pain! It does look like some Blueline SD9s may be on the way ... I'm waiting for an SP version!
Safety Valve wrote: selector wrote:Why couldn't BLI market a Yellowstone or an Allegheny? I like the BB, but I already have its smaller cousin, the Challenger, and that is enough of that. Not to say it isn't all it is meant to be as a model; it's the Lionel version and I love it. But....binder, dundat.Amen. I think the BLI/PCM/FDT needs a little time to catch up for now. But a B&O EM-1 definately would merit consideration.
selector wrote:Why couldn't BLI market a Yellowstone or an Allegheny? I like the BB, but I already have its smaller cousin, the Challenger, and that is enough of that. Not to say it isn't all it is meant to be as a model; it's the Lionel version and I love it. But....binder, dundat.
Amen. I think the BLI/PCM/FDT needs a little time to catch up for now. But a B&O EM-1 definately would merit consideration.
Safety Valve--
As I understand, the EM-1 was the lightest of the Yellowstones at about 124,000 lbs TE, but my, oh my, was that one SWEET looking locomotive. I'll join you on that--it would be really nice to see one of those. About the only ones I've ever seen were made by Akane back in the '60's, and I have heard--though I don't know for sure--that they were simply built on the Akane Missabe M-3/4 wheelbase (Baldwin built both prototypes). However, the Akanes I've seen looked really nice--and if they were anything like the Akane Missabes, they could probably be used to raise and lower the garage door, they were probably THAT powerful.
Vapeurchapelon, perhaps you should one of these "smiley" faces instead of blue language:
Mark
twhite wrote: SteamFreak wrote: twhite wrote: Well, after we all get our Big Boys and run them for a while, we'll probably do the same thing that we all did when we all got our UP challengers and ran them for a while: Sit back and say, "Hot Darn, that's one BORING looking big steamer."Tom I beg to differ. I'm surprised at some of the indifference here - I think they have beautiful lines. Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I think the N&W Y6b's are interesting, but homely. They look like they ran down the ugly track and hit every tie. And Ken, you're right. I've been next to a Big Boy several times, and they make me feel tiny - and I'm 6'3". Based on the number manufactured and the number sold, I'd say I'm not in the minority. People who don't even model UP buy them just because they're impressive and legendary. If the old Rossi's with the big flanges are selling for over $200 on eBay, I don't think the demand is going away anytime soon. I was bitten by the Big Boy bug when I was 11, and it bit hard. Seeing 4012 at Steamtown in Vermont was all it took. I think I finally got over it when I was in my twenties, but I still like them. At this point, however, I'd rather see a Yellowstone get the green light if we're talking big steam, or a nice Atlantic or some decent pre-1900 motive power. Steamfreak--You're absolutely right, and I agree, it is a difference of opinion. For myself, I prefer my articulateds with all of the 'guts' hanging out, like the 2-6-6-6 Allegheny, the SP AC's, Missabe Yellowstones, all of the GN and NP articulateds and the Rio Grande L-131's. Front-hung pumps, visible Elesco or Worthington FWH systems, lots of piping and all the gegaws that to me mean Power and Business. And I know a lot of guys who prefer the 'cleaner' lines of the UP articulateds. To each his own, and I mean that sincerely.
SteamFreak wrote: twhite wrote: Well, after we all get our Big Boys and run them for a while, we'll probably do the same thing that we all did when we all got our UP challengers and ran them for a while: Sit back and say, "Hot Darn, that's one BORING looking big steamer."Tom I beg to differ. I'm surprised at some of the indifference here - I think they have beautiful lines. Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I think the N&W Y6b's are interesting, but homely. They look like they ran down the ugly track and hit every tie. And Ken, you're right. I've been next to a Big Boy several times, and they make me feel tiny - and I'm 6'3". Based on the number manufactured and the number sold, I'd say I'm not in the minority. People who don't even model UP buy them just because they're impressive and legendary. If the old Rossi's with the big flanges are selling for over $200 on eBay, I don't think the demand is going away anytime soon. I was bitten by the Big Boy bug when I was 11, and it bit hard. Seeing 4012 at Steamtown in Vermont was all it took. I think I finally got over it when I was in my twenties, but I still like them. At this point, however, I'd rather see a Yellowstone get the green light if we're talking big steam, or a nice Atlantic or some decent pre-1900 motive power.
twhite wrote: Well, after we all get our Big Boys and run them for a while, we'll probably do the same thing that we all did when we all got our UP challengers and ran them for a while: Sit back and say, "Hot Darn, that's one BORING looking big steamer."Tom
Well, after we all get our Big Boys and run them for a while, we'll probably do the same thing that we all did when we all got our UP challengers and ran them for a while:
Sit back and say, "Hot Darn, that's one BORING looking big steamer."
I beg to differ. I'm surprised at some of the indifference here - I think they have beautiful lines. Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I think the N&W Y6b's are interesting, but homely. They look like they ran down the ugly track and hit every tie. And Ken, you're right. I've been next to a Big Boy several times, and they make me feel tiny - and I'm 6'3". Based on the number manufactured and the number sold, I'd say I'm not in the minority. People who don't even model UP buy them just because they're impressive and legendary. If the old Rossi's with the big flanges are selling for over $200 on eBay, I don't think the demand is going away anytime soon.
I was bitten by the Big Boy bug when I was 11, and it bit hard. Seeing 4012 at Steamtown in Vermont was all it took. I think I finally got over it when I was in my twenties, but I still like them. At this point, however, I'd rather see a Yellowstone get the green light if we're talking big steam, or a nice Atlantic or some decent pre-1900 motive power.
Steamfreak--
You're absolutely right, and I agree, it is a difference of opinion. For myself, I prefer my articulateds with all of the 'guts' hanging out, like the 2-6-6-6 Allegheny, the SP AC's, Missabe Yellowstones, all of the GN and NP articulateds and the Rio Grande L-131's. Front-hung pumps, visible Elesco or Worthington FWH systems, lots of piping and all the gegaws that to me mean Power and Business. And I know a lot of guys who prefer the 'cleaner' lines of the UP articulateds. To each his own, and I mean that sincerely.
Tom, I agree - I love all of the rococo piping and appliances on steamers, and the more the better, but I still love the lines of the Big Boys. The Challengers not as much, since they're shorter and the proportions don't seem quite right.
What makes steamers so interesting is that they wear all of their moving parts on the outside, which is why I could never stand streamlining them. I guess I'm a purist after all.
I just think that the market has been over-flooded with UP Challengers and Big Boys. Now, if someone were to come out with the EARLY UP Challenger, or one of the UP 2-8-8-0's, I'd probably perk up--they were pretty distinctive.
It is my understanding the Big Boy would never have been able to work the Coal the way the Y6b did and the Y6b is just too slow and short ranged to deal with the very large trains of the day at the schedules demanded. I may be wrong I dont know.
Maybe we can cool it on the Big Boys for a while... 10 years or so until the next generation goes "OOh, ahh! over the next release"
VAPEURCHAPELON wrote:Big Boy developed about 6300 hp on tender drawbar, not 3000. But this still was way too low for an engine this size. UP got a speed potential way above their demand, most of their life Big Boy ran about 20 to 30 mph, not 80, thus the ACTUAL power output perhaps between 3000 and 4000 hp. Plus low thermal efficiency because of the firebox not behind, but ABOVE the drivers - lacking sufficient depth. Same with the Challengers (not only UP).Compare the 6300 hp with the 6600 N&W's A developed, or the 5800 of the Y-6. Both of these are about 100 tons smaller than Big Boy! And N&W used to run these brutes at the design speed - where they ACTUALLY GET that hp! Big Boy was used to run up Sherman Hill with maybe 25mph, and drift down the other side at 50. N&W's Y-6 had the potential of 50mph, and over the entire speed range they could handle significantly more tonnage than Big Boy - and actually did so. Plus they were much more efficient.
Big Boy developed about 6300 hp on tender drawbar, not 3000. But this still was way too low for an engine this size. UP got a speed potential way above their demand, most of their life Big Boy ran about 20 to 30 mph, not 80, thus the ACTUAL power output perhaps between 3000 and 4000 hp. Plus low thermal efficiency because of the firebox not behind, but ABOVE the drivers - lacking sufficient depth. Same with the Challengers (not only UP).
Compare the 6300 hp with the 6600 N&W's A developed, or the 5800 of the Y-6. Both of these are about 100 tons smaller than Big Boy! And N&W used to run these brutes at the design speed - where they ACTUALLY GET that hp! Big Boy was used to run up Sherman Hill with maybe 25mph, and drift down the other side at 50. N&W's Y-6 had the potential of 50mph, and over the entire speed range they could handle significantly more tonnage than Big Boy - and actually did so. Plus they were much more efficient.
Oh boy, this is a debate that's been raging for decades. It's been discussed next door in the Trains forum: What's so special about Big Boys?
There are some super steam statistics from an old issue of Trains, organized here by starting tractive effort: http://www.railfan.net/supersteam/supersteam.cgi?bystartte
cudaken wrote: VAPEURCHAPELON, would you have time to post PIC of the engines you listed? As far as why I like them, they are big and to me look powerful. Funny you like the trim on the wheels and walk ways, my self I don't. Latter when I detail my BLI Hudson I will be removing the white trim. As far as the Real Life Big Boy, it made 3000 HP. Is that not about what current engines make? Have you ever had a chances to see one in person? I am lucky and happen to live with in 40 miles of UP 4006. Few in person PIC.
VAPEURCHAPELON, would you have time to post PIC of the engines you listed? As far as why I like them, they are big and to me look powerful. Funny you like the trim on the wheels and walk ways, my self I don't. Latter when I detail my BLI Hudson I will be removing the white trim.
As far as the Real Life Big Boy, it made 3000 HP. Is that not about what current engines make?
Have you ever had a chances to see one in person? I am lucky and happen to live with in 40 miles of UP 4006. Few in person PIC.
Unfortunately I did never see a real Big Boy, but of course I am interested to do it.
I cannot post pics here, but I could email many to you. Contact me through email, and I will get the ball rolling.
And: I don't say UP's articulateds are ugly, but they simply have nothing of special appealing to me.
twhite wrote:Well, after we all get our Big Boys and run them for a while, we'll probably do the same thing that we all did when we all got our UP challengers and ran them for a while: Sit back and say, "Hot Darn, that's one BORING looking big steamer."Tom
cudaken wrote: As far as the Real Life Big Boy, it made 3000 HP. Is that not about what current engines make?