Disappointed with the GATS

[BRAKIE]

This past weekend I went to 2 local Train Shows.One in Marion(Oh) Saturday and the Willard Show on Sunday..Both shows was a bust due to near full MSRP..Then you had several older Atlas/Kato locomotives for ONLY $99.00 each! Freinds you can usually pick these up for $45.00-60.00 dollars-less sometimes.Now how about a old Mantua GP20 for $35.00? The list goes on..I did however enjoy seeing old friends at these shows and the coffee and apple pie was good.[:D] The better shows will be after the Holidays I 'm athinking.
I suppose the prices was up due to Christmas..Sorry no sales on my part when better deals can be found at some of the discount hobby shops I go to, on line hobby shops and of course e bay.[}:)]

[chutton01]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jddav1

There really was a large amount of junk there and one table even called it junk.

Heck, nothing wrong with calling junk 'junk' - just put up an 'as-is' sign and we'll understand - the problem is with pricing junk as 'full-retail' - an old lifelike boxcar for 50 cents - you can weather it and put it on timbers as a scrap yard's storage shed.
An old lifelike boxcar for $10.00...well, not so good...

[PennsyHoosier]

I also went to the GATS in Fort Wayne, Indiana. It was okay. I would have liked a greater number of vendors. The best of the bunch was LHS Hobbyland, which was offering some serious deals--and then had a coupon you could take out to the shop itself. I did, and saved some serious money.

Worst thing about it was that it was in the worst room in the Memorial Coliseum. Like walking around a dingy basement.

But overall it was okay.

[jddav1]

I also attended the recent San Diego GATS. I too found it disappointing. There were many good layouts ranging from n scale to european HO. There was even a large LEGO layout. What I saw was a large contingent of LIONEL/American Flyer and G scale. A few of the dealers there were willing to barter but in general the new equipment was at retail prices. There really was a large amount of junk there and one table even called it junk. Is there a better quality train show with equipment in better shape?
Jeff

[espeefoamer]

I went to the recent GATS show in Pomona and spent $14.00 on parking and admission.I had been looking for power for my Tropicana train for several months, and found only a dummy GP 40 lettered for Seaboard Coast Line. I could not find any cabooses.At the show I found an Atlas Seaboard GP 40 for $65.00, and a Seaboard caboose at another vendor for $5.95. I also bought 2 books at a good discount. I had a sucessful trip.

[jabrown1971]

Something that I really have issues with in regards to GATS is the hours, 11-5 c'mon. 11 is ok to start, but folks have so much on a weekend now that they may not get there at all. Stay open til 8 on Saturday and 6 on Sunday. Maybe even mix it up a bit and recruit folks who can come on Fridays from say 5-9. Other than that, my remarks from yesterday still stand.

[Anonymous]

Our club (N-Trak) participated in every GATS show that came to town. They used to hold two, one in the RiverCenter in St Paul and one out in Shakopee at Canterbury Downs. We have mixed emotions about setting up at the shows especially at the RiverCenter. It's difficult to get access as they limit the number of vehicles that can go into the loading area even though there's plenty of room. Try lugging an N-Trak module and all of the "stuff" that's needed to put it all together from a distance. We even have to pay for our own parking and most of us beleive that if we are participants we shouldn't have to pay. Talking to GATS they say it's not their problem, it's the venues (RiverCenters) policy. We talk to then about changing venues and they shrug it off. If you're not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. At one GATS show they limited the number of passes for club members and only after threatening to take down the layout did they finally hand out enough for every member. It's bad enough to pay for parking but having to pay to get into a show where you are an exhibitor trying to bring in more of the public is uncalled for. The last GATS show that was held at RiverCenter was a disappointment as far as the number of vendors.

The other venue (Canterbury) is a racetrack. Most of use prefer that as the access is easy and there is no parking fee but it is far from the major population center.(Minneapolis/St Paul).

Our club elected not to attend the last GATS show being held at the RiverCenter. We told GATS about the parking issue and getting enough club passes but received no reply. Turned out to be a moot point as GATS cancelled that show and will not be showing in the Twin Cities for all of 2005.

I too have noticed that the vendor turnout has gotten worse. I just came back from Trainfest which was a great show (I just got the credit card bill to prove it!!!!!). That'll be the benchmark for the next few years.

[Anonymous]

We have a GATS here but I have found it lacking
I usually get a t-shirt or two for my kids but that is about it.
I have never seen anyting I couldnt pick up for less online or at the LHS. I do know that most of my grandpa's steam locomotive books are a collectors item. I told one vendor I had two particular books ion hardback and his eyes popped out of his head.

[SP4449]

I can add something from the layout display point of view. As members of the NMRA division in Eastern Nebraska we have a large HO scale modular layout we make a point of displaying at each GATS that is in the area and have done so for a number of years now. We have a great time doing the show because we enjoy the hobby and love the opportunity to answer questions the public has about how this or that detail was done (one of the modules has a very realistic corn field that draws a lot of attention), who the manfacturer of the train/loco/car/building is, how the modules are built, and to just run trains. Many of us don't have a home layout and reli***he chance to exercise our purchase from the last show. Some of the persons we helped with information have become active in the hobby, have later joined the division and have modules of their own. The division has expanded to include a Z scale layout and an N scale layout. We have encountered individuals or groups that have a less than desirable attitude but, as a group, we have determined that we will make sure those that contact us will have a good experience and come away with the feeling that this is the "Worlds Greatest Hobby". We are especially friendly to the kids and young people.

One of the factors that has effected how GATS is doing show wise, is that owner ship went from the business in Chicago to one in Las Vegas, Nevada, and now California. We found they were trying to run the show from there without the local representation they had before the change and therefore were turning dealers and layouts away because of some errors in how much floor space was available. As was mentioned in an earlier posting, many shows had a lot of empty space that could have held more layouts or dealers.

Scheduling is definitely another factor. In addition to GATS in February, 2005 , there is a local train show that month, and our division train show in April, then nothing all summer or fall. The shows are so close together it sometimes creates the feeling that there is too much going on. A comment was made that dealers are making a living at the shows. They are on the road all summer following the weekly scheduled shows and one I talked to, covers the entire area east of the Mississippi (he was visiting family in Nebraska was his explination of why he was in this area). As for the scheduling, the venue for the show has to be locked in at least a year in advance so changes are difficult to make.

My personal observation is reflected in the statement posted earlier, that contained the term "swap meet". Shows in the 70's and 80' s were real swap meets where individuals came together, arranged for a table and sold or outright swapped their excess, possibly getting something more desirable in the process. Now that dealers predominate the show, it is difficult to find "deals" among them because they are trying to recoop the cost of their travels. I miss the swap meets because during the barter, a true contact with someone interested in the hobby can be made and information and experiences can be exchanged. On the other hand, some dealers make a point of purchasing "estate" materials and are willing to make deals, particularly on loose items not in boxes that are difficult to store and transport.

As a show attendee, if I came away empty handed, it was probably for the best. I didn't need to spend the money. [;)]

[yellowducky]

I should start a tread called "Happy GATS".
Not disappointed in any way including $6 admission (go to gats.com for a $1 discount coupon) and $3 Coliseum parking.

Good show at Ft. Wayne, IN.

Fine layouts with very friendly folks, in most scales, including the Lego club from Mishiswaka(?).

Big variety of everything (except Lionel parts).

I bought O/027stuff , Thomas wood stuff including powered Bertie and male/male connector track ( I homemade several 12-18inch straight track pieces out of new 30 year old hardwood flooring pieces on a table saw), a piece of S gauge curve track, an Aristocraft 'Lil Critter' B&O engine, and a few assorted other model train items, all totaling- lots of money but good to great prices (did I tell you I'm into all sorts of scales/gauges, and do hands on trains for kids at libraries, churches, Science Central, and once Auburn Parks Dept.).

Their hands on for kids was good, but should have included O/027 and Large scale/gauge to be great.

Only could find about 3 hours time on Sun. afternoon, but talked to several people, including venders, club members, other patrons, and even the three "doormen" (on the way out)!

This was probably my 5th GATS show (they only do one per year here, and used to be every other year).
All were good.

[Anonymous]

The last GATS I attented was not that great either. A bunch of mean "old guys" (to me[;)]) who didn't show enthusiam or so much as a grin. I really prefer the local shows myself. Nice, friendly people from my area who I can relate to.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I wish I had the problem that some of you have where there are so many trainshows that the GATS gets diluted or repititious! lol. Living out here in West Texas, it's always a few hundred miles to any show. While looking a vendors and getting bargains is always a great thing to do (found a couple of real good deals on structures at a show in Ft. Worth last month) what I enjoy most is seeing the layouts that folks have set up. Yes, lots of them were not my scale (lots of N and Lionel) but they were all enjoyable to watch (especially the G scale set up they had on the floor). I very much enjoyed looking at other people's craftmanship and it really got me pumped up to get home and get to work on my projects. The other way cool thing was walking past the various Lionel vendors and trying to identify the cars that I had growing up. My favorite car as a kid was the submarine on the flatcar and I can't tell you the great feeling I got inside when I saw one and explained to my fiance (her idea to go to the show!) how that was my favorite car. It was also way cool to see the kids at the show watching the trains of all scales operating - reminded me of going to train shows and hobby shops when I was did with my dad.

Did the money I saved on my two "bargains" equal the cost of admission, the sodas and burgers? Nope, not even close. Was the price of those things worth the fun I had in looking at other people's accomplishments, the reinvigorating (sp?) of my own motivation to get back to work on the layout and the joy of remembering what fun I used to have with my dad? YOU BETCHA!!!!

[Anonymous]

All train shows benefit the hobby in one form or another. I personally have experience the largess of the Greenburgs from the 80's to the 90's in Baltimore area and have always had a taste for "Class" ever mind the fact that I may have only 50 dollars or less to spend.

The GATS here in Little Rock Ar has been sent back to next year. They were supposed to hold one this winter but apparently decided to shuffle a few months more before they hold it again. There is one I think in Memphis (3 hours from me) in end of Feb. I probably will pass on that one.

Pine Bluff Ar will have a good show (Not GATS) first weekend of April. This is my one show that I found to be very friendly, easy on the money and lots of stuff to go thru. I expect that GATS may ease some of the fees next year at the little rock fairgrounds but at 7 dollars for parking and another 7 to get into the door... I would wait and see how it goes at Pine Bluff.

$14 dollars is real money when you are trying to acquire that one item or swing a bargin at the tables.

[Anonymous]

I went to the GATS that was here in Boise last June (my one and only experience, so I'm not in a position to say whether they are or aren't what they used to be). Much of what has been said on this topic would apply to the Boise show and me -- not a whole lot of what I was looking for, a lot of lower-end RTR stuff, and so on. BUT, what I also saw were a lot of families there to see the show, and a lot of those families scooping up those items and getting at least an introduction to the hobby without busting the family budget. Given some of the other threads discussing concern about the future of the hobby, this is a good sign. For about a week afterward, my daughter kept wanting to "Go with Daddy and see trains."

I'm envious of those of you who can make short trips of seventy or so miles and choose shows. The 400 miles or so (each way) trips to Portland, Spokane, or Salt Lake for a train show just isn't feasible. So, I will be sure to put my money down and take my chances on the next GATS here. If nothing else, it's another chance to "Go with Daddy and see trains."

TrummyandElla

[JerryZeman]

I live in the Chicago area, birthplace of GATS, and location of a monthly show out at the Dupage County Failgrounds.

Due to some genetic flaw in my character, I seem to repeat a bad experience on average about once every three to four years. I don't know why I do it, because in my humble opinion, attending a GATS show is a complete and total waste of time. The last two times I went over the last 7 years, I spend zilch, nada, nothing, gornicht, nicht, after investing $14.00 for the wife and I, breakfast for the family (had to entice them to come), and wasted two hours of my life walking past tables on which 60% of the items displayed were of no interest to me (postwar Lionel).

There are far better alternatives to GATS:

1. Local hobby shops that give discounts (typically 20%, less on low margin items).
2. Local hobby shops that do not discount but have a beautifully laid out store, are well stocked, with helpful people. (Right Track Hobbies, Palos Heights, Desplains Hobbies)
3. E-Bay
4. Mail order houses, like Tony's Train Exchange for DCC items

regards,
Jerry Zeman

[AntonioFP45]

I attended the GATS at the Tampa fairgrounds last year with a couple of close friends and their wives. We enjoyed it. Atmosphere was friendly and we picked up quite a few bargains.

One thing that seems to work, at least with us, is that if you wait til the last few hours of the show some of the dealers would be willing to bargain. Both my friends picked up brand new locomotives for less than half the price!

After reading the posts, I can understand the situation better today. Years back, big train shows were a major event for modelers in many cities. Today, with so many "smaller" shows that are put on by other groups GATS and GREENBURG have lost some of the big "hoopla" that they had 2 decades back. Adding to that internet dealers are becoming increasingly popular.

[Pruitt]

For those who live somewhere near Baltimore, maybe the GSMTS would better suit. They have lots of layouts and plenty of space in which to move around. They also have a tinplate show at the same time (pay one fee to get in to both - they're really one show, but scale is on one side of the building, and tinplate on the other for the most part, with most of the layouts in one big area). I like both the scale and tinplate areas.

Anyway, they don't have most of the GATS drawbacks folks are talking about here.

[greatn]

Last month I took myself and my two sons to the GATs here in Washington. Its had been acouple of years since I had last attended. I recalled lots of vendors, great how-to clinics, and great crowds. This year I had money in my pocket and was looking for a Digitrax Zephyr and a GP7 or RS2. After 2 hours of looking, I finally found a retailer who had pamplets out and had brought one Zephyr with him but it was already sold. There were no vendors there just local hobby stores with tables. I found one package of Intermountain 33" wheels for $9.95, one package of Kadee #5's, and an Intermountain 40' boxcar for $17.00. I traveled 85 miles to be able to attend how-to clinics and there weren't even chairs put out! Will I go again? Would you?

[jabrown1971]

I just went to the St Louis one over Thanksgiving weekend, and wasn't expecting much anyway. I always enjoy the layouts, don't really talk to many folks there, just keep to myself. My complaints are a little different-I think $7 is too much to pay, but then again when it was $5 I thought that was steep. At the St Louis show, the aisles were narrow and crowded with too many dead ends that caught me behind or infront of people blocking my progress or me theirs. Used to be everything was organized in a nice little grid, cruise up on side of the aisle go down the other, loop around and go up the next. There were vendors who were set up with aisles inside aisles and not with a clearly marked entrance or exit. As far a merchandise-maybe a little organization is in order. Maybe folks who are selling die-cast only should be in one area, while folks selling G, O, and S occupy another area. HO scale could be in the middle with N & Z occupying the remaining show floor space. Hats, mugs, stickers, magnets and other do-dads can be interspersed. I never really find what I am looking for, but I quit making lists years ago. If I see something I like I buy it, if I don't then a trip to my train store is in order. A few weeks from now the show will stop in Indy where I live. I will probably go there too, pay the $7 to get in, $2 to park and gawk at the same merchandise, but different layouts and hope that the organization is better than before. But at Indy it is a different set up than Collinsville and it is less crowded.

[Anonymous]

Through my many hobbies I've attended lots of shows. The comments about GATS aren't much different for car parts, firearms, clocks, gardening, antiques or any other hobby out there. I went to my local GATS and though I didn't find what I was looking for I still came home with more loot than I should have. There is one dynamic that will have a future on any hobby show. Available descretionary cash. A recovery economy and retiring baby boomers will play on this and as it does we'll see more folks willing to go on a show circuit which will make the future ones more interesting. One other thing, the price marked is not necessarily what they will accept. Sometimes $30 in hand beats a $35 asking price.

[Texas Zepher]

They started having two shows a year here and it seems they can't get as many layouts.

One of the first GATS I participated in we actually got into a territory battle with some of the other groups they had us shoulder to shoulder with. This last GATS there were so few layouts we could have doubled the size of ours and still had more than enough room to drive all the way around it. I would prefer it go back to just one show a year.

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rda1964

I'm just home from the San Diego, California version of the Great American Train Show, or as it says in the blurb "The GATS". To say I was disappointed is an understatement. Never mind that admission and parking came to $14 or that the affair had a impoverished look and feel about it. What really irked me was the lack of anything interesting to see or spend money on.

I attended the San Diego GATS as well and I felt the same way you described. On the other hand, I'm not sure what would need to happen to make it more ideal. I think a change of venue would be in order. I personally spent $18 just on parking, ticket, and two water bottles for my daughters. I felt like I could have used the $18 on model RR stuff but It was worth it to spend time with my girls.

[bcammack]

I heard that the next Houston GATS will be back at the Pasadena fairgrounds/convention center. I hope that is true because the parking is free and the venue is more "intimate" for the number of vendors. I know that some don't care for the layouts being rather removed from the vendor area in another building, but I attended my first GATS at that location and have been rather disappointed subsequently with ones around the Astrodome.

I've not noticed recently of there being any further scheduled for here, though.

[AntonioFP45]

I'm looking forward to my "first ever" GATS visit here in Tampa. (I've been to plenty of non-gats shows. Whenever I go to any type of "train affair" prototype or model, I go to see, hear, and enjoy the experience. I understand the point about bargains, but our economy and society have changed so much in just two decades that bargain hunting would be best done at Model Railroad swap meets and flea markets. Don't take my comments negatively, but this hobby is supposed to be enjoyable and I look at a train show as an OPPORTUNITY to relax, enjoy, pick up new ideas, and talk the "lingo" with modelers from other towns or states and see "what's new". That's what I'm happy to pay for! I'd like to temporarily not think about "terrorism, bills to pay, crime, job stress, and liberalism vs. conservatism. I haven't had the experience at a show, but if someone is rude or obnoxious, I will simply smile and tell them "take care, have fun" and move on to another display. Why let some "yahoo" who drank vinegar for breakfast "derail" your fun? I did meet a "gruff" old timer who had a small but well detailed N Scale layout at a train show on the Florida West coast last year. I simply smiled and told him that his functional mainline signals and rural scenery were impressive. He smiled, loosened up quickly and started a conversation with me. I had noticed that many visitors simply glanced at his hard work and didn't say a word. Doesn't always work, but most of the time a smile and a kind word will "mellow" an arrogant attitude. MODELERS: We need to COMPLIMENT AND ENCOURAGE our fellow modelers. If you see some well crafted layout or model, ACKNOWLEDGE THE PERSON! Why is that so hard to do now? I see that a lot with our younger hobbyists. (I'm 40). BTW if you do encounter an arrogant dealer or manufacturer rep, just kindly state that the he/she isn't being professional and many sales are based on "word of mouth" and you'll e-mail that reps company about the poor "sales hurting" attitude. That will get attention. It also stands to reason that some layout displayers may have their guard up due to RIVET COUNTERS. Rivet counters are o.k, as long as criticism is positive/helpful and not demeaning. Happy Railroading!

[Anonymous]

I indicated I had "mixed feelings" on the show. There will be other shows and possibly special sales held by local hobby shops in my state come next year. If the trend is towards collectible cups, mugs, hats and shirts... that definately would be the end of my going...

The reason I go to these shows is that I seek a small list of out of production, never made again, missed oppertunities and possibly that one special kit to finish a part of a fleet. And maybe a dealer can wheel and deal me to a purchase. I am happy to be able to go. It is not as "First Class" as it used to be.

I do remember that there were children exposed to trains for first time and loved it. That will be the future of our Hobby.

Lee

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure what you guys want.

Someone complains it's all dealers.
Someone complains it's all layouts.

I was just at the one in Denver, and was very impressed. Lots of display layouts, lots of vendors. Reasonable prices and some deals, too. A wide variety of modelling tools at good prices. Took 3 hours for me to look at everything.

I'm thinking what you might want is a low-to-no-cost-bargain-for-everything-swap-meet.

Sure.

CJCRESCENT is right: these shows depend on local talent. You can't blame GATS if your local modelers are grumpy or not crowd-friendly--that isn't their fault.

If you've "never walked out of a show happy"...hmmm...maybe the fault lies somewhere other than the show's organizers.

[cacole]

Last year's GATS in Tucson, Arizona, was almost nothing but layouts -- very little in the way of dealers attending and offering much in the way of sale items. Many attendees left empty-handed. That was the first GATS I have ever attended, and will probably go again this year (it's held in February) to see if they have anything better than last year. The most impressive layout I saw was in G-scale by a club called the Wood Carvers, who take a G-scale chassis and carve something new and different for the locomotive and rolling stock out of wood. Even all of their scenery was hand-carved out of wood. Other than that, it was rather disappointing. If this year's GATS is no better, I probably won't bother to drive 70 miles to see it anymore. I think the biggest problem facing GATS is Internet sales. Three years ago, there were five hobby shops in Tucson -- today, there's only one, and it is for sale. The other shops have all gone out of business because their customer base has evaporated.

[Anonymous]

I went to a GATS in Peoria, Il,2 months ago, and considering the $7 admission fee, I was a bit disappointed. I guess I expected the show to be much bigger than it was. There was one local vendor there that I like to deal with, but other than that, I was disappointed.

[Jetrock]

I have to admit that the one GATS show I went to in Sacramento wasn't nearly as nice as the train shows (hosted by a local railroad club, I think) in Roseville, in terms of deals. There was a lot of toy-train stuff, and a lot of non-railroad diecast stuff, and assorted things which consistently failed to be trains. I did find some good things, enough that I'm probably going to go to the next GATS in Sacramento, but I'll save up more money for the next Roseville show in February.