I'm with both Mark AND Dave!
Distance between feeders, and robustness of connections, should be in inverse proportion to the probability of having to move the layout, either intact or in sections. Dave has taken his layout to shows - an environment that is GUARANTEED to bring out the wiring gremlins. OTOH, present plans call for my under-construction double garage filler to remain in place until my estate sale (and I figure I'm still good for 30+ years yet.)
Present standards call for installing feeders to every electrical section, the longest of which is 18 feet between insulated joiners. The feeder goes at the exact center, or the nearest rail joint thereto. That way, if power goes out in one section, I only have ONE feeder to troubleshoot. I don't solder rail joints, but do solder jumpers around every uninsulated joiner.
If there is a turnout at the far end of a section, frog power reaches the contacts on the actuator through wires, not by tapping the rails. Likewise, the 'pass it on' connections between my MZL zones are wired from panel to panel. Yes, there's lots of wiring - but it's all neatly installed and cabled, and every wire end is clearly labeled (as are the terminals they are connected to - I wire from terminal strip to terminal strip, so there are no soldered T-joints or suitcase connectors floating around under the layout.) Is my background in maintaining Air Force aircraft showing? Probably.
Here's a toast, to the host, of those we've lost...
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with MilSpec wiring)
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Crandell,
It's probably my military training. Neglecting current operations for the moment (political time bomb!), we are trained in the Air Force that overwhelming force (the principle of mass) is the way to get things done quickly with a minimum of mess. Witness Gulf War I. We completely overwhelmed Iraqi air defense and destroyed their communications systems such that only 36 hours into the war, no Iraqi unit above brigade-level had communications with higher headquarters. We did so by launching non-stop sorties (2-day rolling air tasking order) and filling the skies with our planes. And we did it with minimum loss of (friendly) life. That's how you go from air superiority to air supremacy.
That's how I view my track/power system. By using rugged (and admittedly oversized) track, soldered at nearly every joint, with feeders everywhere, I never let the enemy (power/signal loss and derailments) get organized for defense.
I have track and power supremacy.
"Off we go, into the wild blue yonder...!"
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
I suppose each of us sets our own standards, Dave. As I alluded in my earlier post, we all learn as we go, and if our experience seems to be that soldering every track segment and adding a feeder to each keeps things going well, then why not assure oneself of "victory" over the fates? It seems that for Mark and me, we get away with less. I have no idea why...couldn't begin to place it all in perspective considering how others have seemingly poor performance otherwise...it just happens to work for us.
In your (very fine) case, I would agree enthusiastically that you should make it as robust as necessary to ensure that your every set-up at a new place is going to work. You know from experience that a mobile layout necessarily is going to get things jostled, and that joiners will suffer greatly left by themselves...they even do that on stationary displays. So, you have wisely done what you know will save you aggravation.
No flames from this kid. I have had my fragile ego bruised too many times in this hobby, so I know better than to lord it over anyone. This is a humbling pursuit, and I have many hard lessons to learn...who knows, I may have to learn what you know about feeder frequency.
-Crandell
Funny... one of the more contentious debate subjects is on the number of feeders.
I'm of the overkill school. I use feeders every 3-6' and I solder my rail joints!
This is because I've had dead spots develop in the past when I didn't add enough feeders or solder enough joints.
Plus, my layout is portable. When it's moved, things can get jostled.
I run DCC so I'm also concerned about signal loss. That's why I use 14 AWG for the bus and my feeders are no more than 6" long.
My current layout has never, ever had an electrical problem. Overkill? You bet! It's like hunting with a bazooka. No doubt in your mind that the target is hit.
To those who argue that there is such a thing as "too much" when it comes to feeders... how is that a bad thing? How is having every segment of rail hard-wired to the track bus in some manner a bad thing, assuming you have the wire and some basic soldering skill? Seems to me that this is an area where there's no such thing as "too much."
I await the inevitable flames!
I'm with Mark. I feel that many modelers overdo the feeders thing. Understandably, they may have learned to err on the side of caution if a previous or current layout had/has drop-out problems due to weak or loose joiners, but if one's roadbed is firm and planar, and the rail segments are fixed to them properly, there should be no power loss over many feet of nickle silver rails. I have powered a Christmas DC 16 foot oval with a single set of feeders, and that was for an On30 train set. If there was a substantial power loss on the far side of the oval, my experienced ears would have detected the change in motion and gear noise. They have not.
I have adopted the cautious approach by placing a set of feeders approximately every 6 feet along my contiguous main. When I hear the engine labouring, I often find that a join is bad or misaligned for the lengths of drivers, or the rail gauge is tight on a curve. When I meter anywhere on the layout, I always get a reading near 15.7 volts.
jbloch wrote: After having said that, there are many who go much longer feeder intervals and seem to have no problem. Jim
Jim
What Chip said. A rule of thumb I've read in other threads is to run one feeder every six feet or so for code 83, and you can go up to 10 feet for code 100. You'll get a lot of comments about whether to solder your joiners or not(not really relevant if you have all sectional track)--I plan on only soldering joiners on curves and not on straight sections, again to allow for expansion/contraction. I also plan to run feeders to every 3 foot section of flextrack since I won't be soldering the joiners(on straight sections)--this allows for more fool-proof running and consistent current, an important issue, particularly for signal pick-up in DCC. After having said that, there are many who go much longer feeder intervals and seem to have no problem.
Hopper,
To add to what Chip says, run a buss line off of your power supply, around the layout underneath the benchwork. Then solder feeders from that buss to the track through your layout base. Whether it's flex track or not, every 3-4 feet is more than enough. Depending on the quality of the track work, you could even cut back to every 6 feet or so.
Admittedly it can get pretty messy under the layout unless you plan well and practice good wire management.
I'm assuming DCC here - I've never had DC so someone may want to jump in here.
Running to all sections of track. I think, assumes flex track.
However, you REALLY want good flow to your track. Rather than wire every section, use a feeder every 3-4 feet and solder your tracks together at the joiners. Leave a joint unsoldered between the feeders to allow for expansion/contraction of the layout.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.