personally I think running long cars around a small radii would really look stupid. I think you should go at least to 28. I run long cars and I wont go less than 30.
Most of my passenger cars are shorter. I only watch the Walthers cars on the straightaways, and in the depot. I look away as they go around a curve.
Well Red My main line has 2-34" curves then a 26" which is inside a tunnel
then a 32"
But the Walthers car would't go thru the 26.Derailing inside the tunnel is a real pain
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
First, there are plenty of online hobby retailers that discount. I get Walthers passenger cars for around 34.95. Still pricey, but better than 44.95. I also think for 44.95, they could include lights.
Second. You don't have to "gut the underbody". I take a Dremel tool and cut out a small notch in the center sill, behind the rear wheels of the trucks, to allow them to turn just a little sharper. My layout is all #6 turnouts and mostly 24 inch curves, but there is one trouble spot. And the notch that I cut in the center sill cannot be seen unless you pick up the car and turn it upside down, and look for it. And ya gotta admit. they do look good.
R. T. POTEET wrote:The solution to your disappointment with your C&O observation car from Walthers for $44.95 is to never again purchase a C&O observation car from Walthers for $44.95. If you find that your Rivarossi cars are superior - BUY THEM!!!!Now I will alight from my soapbox and resume my nervous breakdown!!!
I did have 2 more Walthers cars on order to upgrade my fleet detail wise
but have since cancelled them because i'm afraid they would sit on the shelf forever waiting on surgery
I've yet to find a Walther's product worth Walther's asking price, but if you get them at reasonable prices, they're ok. I remember a few months back a short article in MR about Walther's lowering their prices to bring them in line with the other manufactures, but hav'nt noticed it.
Dave Vollmer wrote: OKay, I understand now. I didn't read closely enough. Sorry!I'm pretty impressed that you can get 24" in a dorm room!Now, think about that curve in N... It would be almost the equivalent of 48"!!!Even 24" is crazy big in N. I run 85' Pullmans on 15" (~30" in HO).
OKay, I understand now. I didn't read closely enough. Sorry!
I'm pretty impressed that you can get 24" in a dorm room!
Now, think about that curve in N... It would be almost the equivalent of 48"!!!
Even 24" is crazy big in N. I run 85' Pullmans on 15" (~30" in HO).
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Compromises:
Walthers newest passenger cars have metal axles revolving in metal trucks with metal side frames. Squeak!
REASON: To support lighting Passenger cars @ $12. from track voltage.
(1) Branchline (or most all other) Passenger equipment do not offer lighting. (2) All cars for lighting, require metal wheels and axle wipers (which add friction) to cars. (3) Walthers' passenger metal sided trucks can be lubed to roll better - I use KD's 'Greas-em' Graphite @ $4. (Graphite conducts electricity). (4) Branchline's trucks with Delrin sideframes can be substituted on Walthers cars.(5) KD couplers 'drop into' Walthers cars (and probably Branchline). I like 40 series (#46/#5) combinations for my curves.
DIAPHRAMS (any) add length and operational and problems on our curves.
I have both Walthers (SF) and Branchline heavyweights. Differences I found between them:
Branchline have much more underbody and diaphragm-related detail. Plus, they have VERY slick-rolling Delrin axle bearings, whereas the Walthers I have do not roll well. The diaphragms on the Branchlines don't operate, however, and of course the Walthers do, tho they don't look real. The Branchlines are much more fragile, and I try to avoid handling them.
Like many of you, I tossed the worthless couplers in favor of KD's
I tried several things to improve the Walthers trucks, such as lubrication and also additional machining of the sideframe sockets, but didn't seem to help much. The other day, I bought some KD 36" wheelsets, but havn't tried them yet; as said above, they probably are too short.
Did the same improvements as above on some IHC C & O cars (body-mounted couplers, weights, metal wheels) and ended up with some nice-running cars. Probably not prototype, but they'll do.
Hal
No, only 22" curves here... and thats only sometimes as I can't leave everything (ok, a loop of EZ track) set up all the time. It'd probably be a bad idea anyway seeing as the only open space is the middle of the floor...
I used to have some N scale equipment.. the deciding factor for me to get back into HO was the lack of loco and rolling stock kits that I could find... and even if I could find a good supply of them, the HO scale ones have small enough parts as is!
Though it is the end of the academic year (last day of finals is the 11th), so I'm actually in the process of packing everything into boxes. I got the cars last Friday (just in time for the WPF ), but haven't really toyed around with them too much. Soon as I get into my room next year, I might be able to squeeze 24" curves in (I decided to pony up the extra cash and get my own room)... or the cars'll be placed in a display case or something.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave -
I'm the guy in the dorm room.
My compromise is HO with (mostly) short equipment. Excepting the passenger cars, everything I have is in the 40-50' range. The heavyweights are for use on the club layout (whenever THAT gets finished, lol) as either some revenue service passenger train or as a tourist excursion when we have "modern day" operating sessions. That, and I really really liked the look of them, so I can live with them being mainly display pieces until such time that I have a "permanent" home layout.
I'm not complaining that they need 24" curves. I did my homework on that aspect, and decided that they were the best looking cars available for the price (ie that they didn't need major work right out of the box).
Ahh... "I want an oompah-loompah NOW, Daddy!!!"
I know no one asked, and this may be a bit off-topic, but when I was in HO, I tried to run longer cars on 22" radius curves. Even when I could get them to stay on the track, it never looked better than some wacky circus train or worse yet, one of those crazy kiddie mall trains.
Eventually I realized I can't have it all.
Long cars and tiny curves. Nope. Something's gotta give.
While I feel for the individual who is talking about operating in a dorm room, I question the choices made in that situation. Either, HO and very short equipment, or N scale would be appropriate.
I decided that I loved mainline PRR operations more than I did HO scale. I sold off all my HO and started in N.
Compromises are inevitable. Model manufacturers cannot be expected to make all of the compromises for us.
I don't mean to offend. And I know I'm just a "'roundy-rounder" too. I just think Walthers is on the right track not gutting the underbody so these things can round trainset curves. I hope they don't make compromises on their soon-to-be-released N scale passenger stuff.
jblackwelljr wrote: I kind of agree with emdgp92 on this one. I spent some time and money upgrading my cheap IHC passenger cars. It was a learning experience and hopefully I'm a better modeler for it. I'm planning on getting some better quality cars in the near future and am counting on having to tweak them also. With all the variables (rookie trackwork, turnouts, unrealistic expectations) I would be surprised at anything that works 100% out of the box - at least on my layout. I look at it as part of the territory.
I kind of agree with emdgp92 on this one. I spent some time and money upgrading my cheap IHC passenger cars. It was a learning experience and hopefully I'm a better modeler for it. I'm planning on getting some better quality cars in the near future and am counting on having to tweak them also.
With all the variables (rookie trackwork, turnouts, unrealistic expectations) I would be surprised at anything that works 100% out of the box - at least on my layout. I look at it as part of the territory.
I found out that if you take the time to upgrade those cheap IHC passenger cars, you can get some really good rolling stock out of them. I got a set of the UP streamline cars and was able to get a relatively good-looking CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO out of them with new wheels, couplers, re-weighting, etc.
Stuff works if you're willing to work with it.
BTW--your "Quiet Man" quote, which I love--there's a new one running around the Classic Film forum. It concerns that infamous and unknown whisper that Maureen O'Hara gives John Wayne at the end of the movie:
"Duke, your fly's open."
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I have passenger cars from just about everybody--Walthers (Budd), ECW (NH "American Flyer, PRR P70), Rivarossi/IHC, Athearn, etc. It seems that they all have their shortcomings, even though they're all nice models. I think that trying to overcome their "problems" makes us better modelers. For example, I bought a pair of Walthers Amfleet cars awhile back, and they were constantly derailing on curves. On closer inspection, one of the trucks wasn't sitting level--there was some flash on top, causing it to lean. I took the car apart, filed off the offending plastic, and they run great. While I was at it, I thought the cars were too light, so I added some additional weight. Total time for repairs? 10 minutes. Annoying yes, but fixable.
The only other change I could see making to the Amfleet cars (at least mine...the problem might have been taken care of now) would be to offer wire grabs instead of the plastic ones. They break too easy!
There is a little bit of under current in all of this. Plastic couplers that break, warped trucks etc.
We need some good old American or at least Kaydee Iron set right If it makes the cars 80 dollars a peice, I'd pay it! I would probably wind up with half a train but what a train!
Part of the hobby is a little workbench time. You wont believe how many items I evaluate against my current workbench supplies, tools, skills and cost before I buy. Especially used ones. I got a plow that needs a truck screw but probably wont be added to the fleet because I dont have the right screw. I might get a junker plow just like it to acquire the right screw. But since Riverossi is OOP, good luck to me! HAH.
Regarding the Fire Truck in the garage, I dont do garages where I live. It's acres and acres of land with possibilities.
... "at $44.95 it should negotiate the curves and turnouts better..."
Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Every mfgr. makes products for a specific market. 85' cars are prototypical in size and for 'man sized' layouts, not 4X8 'Beginners Boards'.
18" RADIUS is designed for those wanting a 'Railroad Empire' on a 4X8 sheet of plywood. Since this requires access from all sides, it requires much more room to operate in - say 12X14' - like a Pool table or Ping Pong in a Dining room.
NMRA's Recommended curve MINIMUMS is car length" X 3, or roughly 12" X3 = 36" radius. For better 'Looks' and 'Operation' 4X is better. There are plenty of 'Shorty' cars (like Athern 72') with truck mounted couplers and underbodies devoid of prototypical obstacles, made for those with 'Shorty' boards.
I HAVE 26" mainline and #6 crossovers, with lots of 80' cars.
TWO suggestions: (1) relay your present curves; or (2) park your Walthers' cars on a straight track where at least they'll look good. 3. Don't buy a Fire Truck, it probably won't fit in your Garage.
Rather than give away your Walthers cars, I'm sure there are some who would be willing to exchange their shorter cars for yours on a trade-up.
Tom - I'm the one who made reference to the dorm room...
I have a club layout that will have 40"+ curves on it, so as long as I take it slow over teh crossovers and turnouts in the staging yard (they're all #6... probably a little tight), I shouldn't have any trouble, well after they get the quick tuneup that is,
I couldn't agree more. We get top drawer appearance but not top drawer performance from these cars and for the price, we have every right to expect both. I own 8 Walthers passenger cars, and 2 constantly derail. 25% failure rate is pretty poor at that price.
Thanks Tom and Bob for the tune up tips I've printed them out and will use them along with some others to help the car run better.
Terry--
Save those Walthers for when you get out of the dorm room (hey, been there, done that!). The minimum recommended radius for them is 24", but don't you believe it, my friend. I've got a 34" minimum radius on my garage layout, and I STILL had Walthers' cars that just kind of grinned at me as they derailed on a curve.
I checked and found out one thing--the screw-heads on the trucks that connect with the 'lighting' units on the outside bottom of the car can catch unless you swipe them slightly with a file. Some of my truck screw-heads had burrs on them that caught on the metal strips and hung the trucks up. A couple of small swipes with a file took the burrs off, while still offering good connection (in case you decide to install the Walthers lighting kits), and the cars have given me very little, if any trouble since. Also, those trucks are fairly tightly attached at the factory. Back off the mounting screw about 1/4 of a turn. Should give the truck a lot more 'give.'
Also, check your coupler swing. The Walthers are not 'Talgo', of course, but quite possibly you might have a little burr on the pocket that prevents your coupler from swinging back and forth as it's supposed to. And do yourself a favor--get RID of the Walther's couplers and substitute Kadee #5's. They pop right in the pocket and are FAR more reilable than those Walther's things.
Yah, I know, and I sympathize with you. For the price, they should work better. But they're sort of like brass locos--a little 'tweaking' and they'll run very nicely. But you need to do a little 'tweaking.'
Best of luck
jsoderq wrote: If you want to run toy 18" curves and #4 switches you need to buy toy cars like Athearn shorties.If you're derailing on 50" curves(amazingly large for a home layout) you obviously have a problem. Either the track is bad or you have one of the cars with a twisted truck. That is caused by one of the holes not tapped perpendicular. If you loosen all four screws and set the truck on a piece of track you can push it square. Then tighten the screws one at a time and you will find the bad one. Either get a replacement or leave that one crew a tad loose.On some cars the metal wipers get bent and cause [problems. If you are not lighting, take off the metal strips.
If you want to run toy 18" curves and #4 switches you need to buy toy cars like Athearn shorties.
If you're derailing on 50" curves(amazingly large for a home layout) you obviously have a problem. Either the track is bad or you have one of the cars with a twisted truck. That is caused by one of the holes not tapped perpendicular. If you loosen all four screws and set the truck on a piece of track you can push it square. Then tighten the screws one at a time and you will find the bad one. Either get a replacement or leave that one crew a tad loose.
On some cars the metal wipers get bent and cause [problems. If you are not lighting, take off the metal strips.
The 4 screws creating a cocked/ twisted truck have been my only complaint w/ the Walther's cars. An indication of this problem will show by inverting the car and sight the axle plane. All axles should be inline. The remedy is mentioned in the above post by jsoderq. Also, make sure that the bolster screw is loose enough to allow proper fore/ aft movement. If too tight the inboard wheels of the truck can't follow track irregularities.
Every Walther's car goes straight to the workbench to have the crap couplers replaced w/ #5s, check the trucks, weather/ paint wheelsets (roof or rail brown or combination of weathered black), oil the axles and then put it into service. I have found 2-3 bad/ twisted trucks out of 10 cars. The bad trucks were causing random derailments until the proplem was found.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Could be Dan
I gotta admit i never looked at the Instructions< Don't tell anybody
I just took it out of the box and ran it
When i designed my layout i made sure the minimum radius was 26"
to avoid this problem
I gotta admit it looks much better running on my friends layout !
C&O Fan -
Yeah, that would be beneficial; although I wonder if the problem you are/were having was caused by bad trucks or a little flash in the journals/on the axle points. The cars I have will get about 1/3 of the way around a 22" 90º curve (4 sections of track). They don't bind up until the rear truck (relative to the car's forward motion) enters the curve. And then the binding is between the inner two wheelsets and the underbody detail...
If I'm reading the diagram,parts list, and other things correctly, the sideframes of the trucks are metal (screwed to the a plastic center section). If this is the case, then flash in the journal would pose a real problem, as when the truck swivels the axle point(s) may rub/bind on the flash...
NeO6874 wrote: The line about the modifications is one of the first lines after "these cars need lubrication put in the journals" in the parts diagram/instruction booklet.
The line about the modifications is one of the first lines after "these cars need lubrication put in the journals" in the parts diagram/instruction booklet.
Thank"s Dan
Wish they would have put that on the outside of the box
Good News is i get visitation rights to my car on a monthly basis
davidmbedard wrote: loathar wrote: Quote-I have some Walthers passenger cars that derail on 50 inch radius curves at our club Gee? Maybe they need a 60" minimum to work properly?I think it's funny how people defend these $45 cars when there's so many negative posts about them. I've owned about 6 Walthers cars (no passenger) and thought they all ran like garbage. I got rid of them and won't buy anymore. "About 6 Walthers cars"........not even passenger ones.I think it is funny how people like to exagerate to get their point across. Where are these negitive posts? Mostly these posts are people who want to run them on 18".....or posts by shakeandbakers who want everything to work perfectly out of the box.You on the other hand are giving us hear-say and you admit that you have NO personal experience with these cars. And you compare these passenger units to 'other' rolling stock you own by Walthers. It would be like comparing an 80's Life Like toy-locomotive with a modern Proto 2000 offering. I think THAT is funny.....how you can compare apples to oranges.I would be interested in finding out exactly what you own. If you own any modern LL units, then I call you out on this. But to pass judgement on a product because you owned something completely unrelated by the same company is completely bogus.David
loathar wrote: Quote-I have some Walthers passenger cars that derail on 50 inch radius curves at our club Gee? Maybe they need a 60" minimum to work properly?I think it's funny how people defend these $45 cars when there's so many negative posts about them. I've owned about 6 Walthers cars (no passenger) and thought they all ran like garbage. I got rid of them and won't buy anymore.
Quote-I have some Walthers passenger cars that derail on 50 inch radius curves at our club
Gee? Maybe they need a 60" minimum to work properly?
I think it's funny how people defend these $45 cars when there's so many negative posts about them. I've owned about 6 Walthers cars (no passenger) and thought they all ran like garbage. I got rid of them and won't buy anymore.
"About 6 Walthers cars"........not even passenger ones.
I think it is funny how people like to exagerate to get their point across. Where are these negitive posts? Mostly these posts are people who want to run them on 18".....or posts by shakeandbakers who want everything to work perfectly out of the box.
You on the other hand are giving us hear-say and you admit that you have NO personal experience with these cars. And you compare these passenger units to 'other' rolling stock you own by Walthers. It would be like comparing an 80's Life Like toy-locomotive with a modern Proto 2000 offering. I think THAT is funny.....how you can compare apples to oranges.
I would be interested in finding out exactly what you own. If you own any modern LL units, then I call you out on this. But to pass judgement on a product because you owned something completely unrelated by the same company is completely bogus.
David
What hear say are you talking about? There's a post every week or two about people having problems with these things. If I buy 6 Ford products and have problems with ALL of them, and then go on a forum and see other folks are having problems with their Fords. Guess what? I ain't buyin Fords no more! No Ford apples, No Ford oranges, No Ford lemons!
We just had a (4 page?) post about how crappy their grab irons are. Somebodies always posting about them not tracking right, or the tabs breaking when they open them, or coupler problems, or the lighting kits don't fit right. Every time someone posts a problem, 10 people jump in and say "Yep! Mine did that too! This is how I fixed it" But people still say they are a great product.(@$45/each)
I'll pass! I've waisted enough money on their cars to know better.