Finicky Walthers/P2K SW8

[scubaterry]

Crandell - Background in human behavior. You must get a kick out of reading some of the posts on this forum. I say that with a smile of course. Well its sounds like you and I had about the same type of conversation of course my human behavior was formed with 23 yrs in the military. The gentleman was very polite, just not real knowledgable about the "SRT" thing. For $2.50 its not worth stirring the pot. Next time I order from walthers I will get a set. Hey so unlike some other threads this one actually was productive. Lots of good info was illuminated. Thanks for your post.
Terry

[Driline]

Driline - Well I went back and re read your earlier post and I didn't see any mention of you paying $2.50 and it was not under warrenty???? Unless you are referring to another post somewhere. However, My question was to Selector. The way I read his post inferred it was under warrenty and they were no cost. Of course that is entirely my interprepation of his post so I may be way off. He obviously got someone very knowledgeable about this particular problem anyway. I on the other hand had a polite, very helpful man who wasn't familar with the "Stupid rubber tread tires" thing. Hope you don't mind me quoting you as it says it all very nicely. Regardless as I said if I can fix the problem for $2.50 + S/H I'm happy.
Terry

You are correct. I did not say anything about the large cost of replacing the axle at $2.50, but if he had called walthers he would have gotten the same information I did. All I'm saying is for a measley $2.50 I got this $99 DCC & sound switcher to work great. I only wish that all of walthers proto2000 loco's were this price

[selector]

Terry, in my somewhat extended history, and with my background in human behaviour, I have adopted the practise of prefacing any requests or demands with a brief orientation to my circumstances...priming the conversation, so-to-speak.

So, what I did was to first explain to the gentleman, who seemed quite informed about his product line, that I had just purchased the SW8 from my LHS, and that it would not preform well on my layout.  I then went on and stated that it came with the traction tires which I had heard were problematic...ending my statement with a rising inflection in my voice so that it sounded like I was asking him for affirmation.  He would hardly have wanted to be in the position of my challenging him had he denied it, but I sincerely feel that this particular gentleman had heard the complaint from others and had learned how to deflect any objections to having to pay for a warrantable correction.  He did not mention a cost to me once, nor did he hesitate before asking me for my address and home number, concluding the call by stating that I would have them between 12 -14 days.  That was it...he didn't even ask me to fax them a receipt as proof of purchase.

On the other major forum, this thread is on page two now, maybe even on three, and the replies include at least one from a person who had no difficulty getting the type of satisfaction that I report here.

For a 1-800 call, it would be worth asking why the disparity in treatment between customers with the same problem.

-Crandell

[scubaterry]

Driline - Well I went back and re read your earlier post and I didn't see any mention of you paying $2.50 and it was not under warrenty???? Unless you are referring to another post somewhere. However, My question was to Selector. The way I read his post inferred it was under warrenty and they were no cost. Of course that is entirely my interprepation of his post so I may be way off. He obviously got someone very knowledgeable about this particular problem anyway. I on the other hand had a polite, very helpful man who wasn't familar with the "Stupid rubber tread tires" thing. Hope you don't mind me quoting you as it says it all very nicely. Regardless as I said if I can fix the problem for $2.50 + S/H I'm happy.
Terry

[Driline]

Selector I read your last response after posting mine. You got an entire differant experience then I did. Larry the guy I talked to didn't know much about it. He did say it was not a warrenty item??? Did they guy you talked to say it was a warrenty item? Just curious $2.50 isn't a bad deal if it solves the problem.
Terry

Did you guys not read my earlier post? I called walthers and they sent me 2 axels for $2.50. No its not under warranty. The switcher works great with those stupid rubber tread tires gone. Like I said before, I can pull AT LEAST 10 cars with my switcher on a 0% grade. For most of us with layouts less than 200sq feet thats plenty!

[Driline]

There is another thread where this very problem was discussed and cussed for this very loco.

Solution: remove the traction tires and replace with metal wheels.

I've had one for several months now and once I removed the traction tires, I've never had a problem with it stalling anywhere unless the track was really at fault.

 

Regards,

 

....but then it wont pull more than 3 cars....back to the reason for the traction tire.

David

WRONG! I've got one and I replaced my traction tires with a metal tire wheelset from Walthers. Matter of fact I've got a spare set too. I can pull 10 cars, probably more with no problem at 0%grade. I've got no need to pull more cars than that anyway with my switcher.

These guys claiming they've gotta pull 25 cars with a locomotive or it sucks are just plain crazy. Or maybe they're the ones with a 40 foot X 60 foot empire and are expecting a little switcher to pull a hundred cars. Geeeesh....

 

Good for you.  But you are still not getting a prototypical pull from your loco.

David

My  HO scale priesser figurines don't prototypically walk around town and wave to me either but you don't see me complain about it.

[scubaterry]

Selector I read your last response after posting mine. You got an entire differant experience then I did. Larry the guy I talked to didn't know much about it. He did say it was not a warrenty item??? Did they guy you talked to say it was a warrenty item? Just curious $2.50 isn't a bad deal if it solves the problem.
Terry

[scubaterry]

I just got off the phone with Walthers and you can get the wheel driver set for the SW8 for $2.50 plus $5.50 S/H. So I got the part # and will get them when I have more to order. I believe he said they come in two set packs so you will have a spare. The part # is 922-584752. While I had them on the phone I asked for a handful of replacement GP wheel drivers that have cracks in them. He said they will be in the mail today no charge.
Terry

[tstage]

That's terrific, Crandell!  Keep us posted how that works out for you and your SW8.

Tom 

[selector]

Okay, this is where Crandell eats crow.  As some of you have guessed, and what I did not learn until I flipped it over to stare at the wheels, is that this very cute loco has the rubber tires.  My forehead is flatter.

So, yes, cutting out and stalling on the frogs is what it is doing.  The track is fine for every other item I run on it, but this little guy just stops dead.  I nudge if for part of an inch, and it goes through all of its start-up sequence of sounds anew.  Very frustrating.

On another forum, Walthers is reputed to have accepted that this model is nearly a bust because of P2K's decision to use the traction tires.  Apparently, Walthers will send us replacement wheel-sets if we phone.  I intend to find out because I can't use the loco the way it is.  This is my second layout, I have learned how to lay reasonable track, and nothing else has this problem on it.  In fact, I already tore up a section leading from the yard onto the central span thinking it was uneven in some way that defied visual detection.  GRRRRRRR!

I had despaired of getting a response to this thread...one of you kind souls must have gone back to the third or fourth page!  Thanks, everyone, for helping me out.

-Crandell

Edit- addendum- It was as easy as I thought.  I called their 1-800, explained the nature of my call, and the nice gentleman at Parts and Warranty didn't hesitate to take my particulars and to tell me that I would have the parts within two weeks.

Also, he said to take the sideframes apart and to add a thin bow to the copper wipers to ensure they rub consistently on the wheel backs.  Secondly, he said to open it up and displace the PCB board in order to get at the gear drive for the front truck which is consistently stiff from item to item in their experience.  He said to remove the plastic cap from the front of the worm and to shave off what he called little "ears" to help free up the drive a bit.  No idea what this is about, but I may tackle it since he says these two fixes really improve the function of the loco....along with the axle swap-out.

[Driline]

There is another thread where this very problem was discussed and cussed for this very loco.

Solution: remove the traction tires and replace with metal wheels.

I've had one for several months now and once I removed the traction tires, I've never had a problem with it stalling anywhere unless the track was really at fault.

 

Regards,

 

....but then it wont pull more than 3 cars....back to the reason for the traction tire.

David

WRONG! I've got one and I replaced my traction tires with a metal tire wheelset from Walthers. Matter of fact I've got a spare set too. I can pull 10 cars, probably more with no problem at 0%grade. I've got no need to pull more cars than that anyway with my switcher.

These guys claiming they've gotta pull 25 cars with a locomotive or it sucks are just plain crazy. Or maybe they're the ones with a 40 foot X 60 foot empire and are expecting a little switcher to pull a hundred cars. Geeeesh....

[tstage]

There is another thread where this very problem was discussed and cussed for this very loco.

Solution: remove the traction tires and replace with metal wheels.

I've had one for several months now and once I removed the traction tires, I've never had a problem with it stalling anywhere unless the track was really at fault.

 

Regards,

 

....but then it wont pull more than 3 cars....back to the reason for the traction tire.

David

David,

Then that shouldn't be a problem.  The prototype was only 800HP.  It wasn't designed to pull a boat load of cars.  It was designed to switch out only a few cars at a time, at best.

I do agree with your statement about Stewart locomotives.  They are terrific locomotives - both running and pulling.

Tom

[MisterBeasley]

I've never had to take the cover off of mine.  Has anyone tried to add weight to this engine?

[dwhitetop2]

There is another thread where this very problem was discussed and cussed for this very loco.

Solution: remove the traction tires and replace with metal wheels.

I've had one for several months now and once I removed the traction tires, I've never had a problem with it stalling anywhere unless the track was really at fault.

 

Regards,         

     Thanks much Tom, Ill try that      Dave

[Tom Bryant_MR]

There is another thread where this very problem was discussed and cussed for this very loco.

Solution: remove the traction tires and replace with metal wheels.

I've had one for several months now and once I removed the traction tires, I've never had a problem with it stalling anywhere unless the track was really at fault.

 

Regards,

[MisterBeasley]

Am I right in assuming that the engine is stalling (losing electrical power) rather than derailing?

I've got one of these, too.  I got it during the $100 fire sale.  This is an exceedingly light engine, and I'm not sure it would pull more than two or three cars without the traction tires.

Mine runs pretty well, but I do have a couple of places it stalls out.  I improved my performance there by cleaning the track, but it sounds like you've already done that.

Have you checked the continuity with a meter?  The three non-traction-tire wheels on each side should all be electrically connected.  If not, then there may be a loose wire inside, so you aren't getting pickup even from all the metal wheels.

Maybe some additional track power feeders would help, if you're using power-routing turnouts and not already back-feeding the frog ends.

[scubaterry]

I assume you are talking about the sound version with traction tires? If not ignore this. I have the same loco. However I have only had it out of the box and on the rails very briefly. (moved and building new layout). I noticed that out of the box it was extremely light. When it did hang up on a T/O or whatever I would place my finger lightly on top of the loco and press down gently and the little bugger would move along. So I am thinking it may be a weight issue. I read a thread awhile back about this and one member stated he replaced his traction tires with metal wheels and the performance increased significantly.

I find it ironic that I bought two of the BLI SW7's (with sound) at the same time. The BLI loco's run better, sound better and they were less expensive than the LL SW8???? And they don't have traction tires.
Terry

[dwhitetop2]

I have the exact same problem with my sw8. I have tried everything to no avail. Only problem is in the yard with real slow operations.       P.S. wish I could have helped     Dave

[selector]

I recently acquired this loco, but it is very temperamental.   It seems entirely unwilling to cross any rail joints that are not within 12 nanometers of being flush.  I find this to be a problem in the yard mostly...when it is out on the main, it seems happy.  The track is quite clean, and it seems to be quite level, even at the joins between turnouts and other segments.

Do any of you have any suggestions for tuning the trucks/wipers so that it will accept something less than absolute perfection?