Why are bachman loco's so cheap?

[dxr8007nz]

Why are bachman loco's so cheap ?

because look ugly locomotive body and 0% super detail that why I never buy these bachman stuff

Any body know why Like-Life sell Limited Edtion e.g Proto 2000 GP60 , SD60 etc..... ?

[Anonymous]

I know this is an old thread, but it's open, and it still applies, so I'll chime in.
The cheap-line (non Spectrum) Bachmann engines are cheap because they are junk, period. Crap gears, crap wheels, crap electrical pickup.

I have tried one or two HO Spectrum steam locos - they ran well, and looked very good.
I have an N-Scale new-era 2-8-0 - looks great and runs great.

But beware, that old crap is still in the stores. And it's still crap.

This is something for which I have never, and will never, forgive Bachmann. I don't know about their cheap-line HO stuff, but the N-Scale stuff is not acceptable, even for a toy train set. Heck, you could always buy an inexpensive Athearn HO engine, and it would WORK. It might not have perfect detail, it might no be the quietest thing around. But if you bought an Athearn engine as an inexpensive choice, even for a kid at Christmas, you could count on it to be reliable and WORK.

The Bachmanns, on the other hand, (and again, I'm talking about their N-Scale stuff with which I have the most experience) are notorious for jamming, slipping wheels, electrical pickup problems, you name it. The first N-Scale engine I ever bought, before I knew better, was a Bachmann 0-6-0 (and it was the LAST I ever bought). The second one I bought was a Kato/Concor Hudson, at which point I said, "oh.... THIS is how they are supposed to run!") The 0-6-0 became unusable within a month - siderods slipping out of quarter, etc.

The new-era Spectrum stuff is a good buy, and it's a nice step forward for them. But that old stuff.... I don't know how they have the nerve to keep making it.

[BentnoseWillie]

De nada. [:)]

I didn't realize that there were twenty different dollars either! I knew about six or seven of them, but not twenty...

And I'm still sorta in shock that those Metroliners are up to $USD 129!

[AntonioFP45]

BentNoseWillie,

You didn't fail..............You educated me!
That's the good thing about this forum.

Thanks, Amigo!

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: What is USD 129?

$USD 129 - One hundred and twenty-nine United States dollars. USD is the international abbreviation for the US dollar, as opposed to the nineteen other dollars in use around the world. [:)]

Since I'm in Canada, and this forum has members worldwide, I specify $CAD (Canadian dollar) or $USD (United States dollar) whenever I mention pricing, to try and make it clear. I guess I failed. [:I]

[AntonioFP45]

Hey BentnoseWillie,

Sorry, I'm a little confused ( so what else is new?)
What is USD 129?

[BentnoseWillie]

I see what you mean...there's one you-know-where up to $USD 129 ! [:o]

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Bentnose Willie,

The Metroliners are no longer available. I remember in the early 90s that H&R Trains had had 4 sets in stock. When they were down to the last set, I (thankfully) put it on layaway and picked it up in three months later for $99. I knew that mechanically they were junk, but the bodies and undercarriage detail looked great. I have plenty of pictures of the Prototypes and the Bachmann units are reasonably close in accuracy.

What clued me to the fact that Bachmann stopped making them is that discount dealer's in Model Railroader's Ad pages had offered the Metroliner set for several years. Suddenly, I noticed that I no longer saw them being offered as I read each new MRR edition. I knew then if I wanted an ML that I'd better move on it.

I've searched to see if any used ones are available, and to my surprise they seem to be rare. What I've found frustrating is that I'm sure many sets were bought by parents that wanted to give a "toy train set" to their kid(s)s. Typically many kids beat up and destroy train sets which in turn wind up in the attic or trash can.

[BentnoseWillie]

Cannon makes high-hood conversion kits for all late-model EMD's. Assuming purchase of new parts in either case, adding the Cannon kit to a Spectrum or P2K GP30 would be easier and cheaper than adding equivalent detail to the standard Bachmann model and upgrading it with an equivalent drive.

Incidentally, all of these options require some digging - none of these GP30 models are in current production. Gotta love those limited runs...[:I]

[M636C]

The high hood GP50 has not been made by any other model manufacturer in HO to my knowledge. This is now available in correct SOU/N&W/NS (or some of these) colours, and like the BQ23-7, is an interesting model of a relatively rare prototype.

There is a high hood GP38-2 (by Model Power, I think). The basic black scheme of these units doesn't look too bad, and only the road numbers are incorrect on either of these units. They aren't up to Kato standards, but they are the only models of late high short hood units that I know of.

Peter

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: I would also encourage folks not to rely on opinions formed 25 years ago. In the late 70's the quality of American cars was pretty dismal. Now they have surpassed the European makes in quality and are knocking on the door of the Japanese. Things DO CHANGE over time.

That'd be true if the tooling had changed. Bachmann's HO scale standard-line models (not Plus or Spectrum) are the same molds as 25 years ago. Those shells were mediocre at best, and the drives were and are j-u-n-k.

Certainly, the shells can be turned into nice models, but they're no longer a logical starting point. Almost every locomotive Bachmann offers has been done better for not a lot more money. The only unique models they had left were the Metroliners and the BQ23-7. I don;t know if you can still buy the Metroliners, but the BQ is history - that tooling was irreversibly modified to make the Bachmann Plus B23-7. I'm all for upgrading older shells, but not if I can get a better model for a similar cost.

Spectrum and Bachmann Plus locos are decent runners, but standard-grade Bachmann equipment is not worth purchasing new.

[Roadtrp]

I would also encourage folks not to rely on opinions formed 25 years ago. In the late 70's the quality of American cars was pretty dismal. Now they have surpassed the European makes in quality and are knocking on the door of the Japanese. Things DO CHANGE over time.

[:)]

[AntonioFP45]

CWClark,

Your thoughts are understandable but don't be too quick to dismiss Bachmanns! There is potential for those that want a challenge or are on a budget.

Some of the Bachmann diesel hood locomotive SHELLS are actually decent. They're the correct scale width and can be turned into nice looking units. Depending on how far one wants to go, this would involve:

[1] Completely stripping off the "cheeeeeesy paint" job! (Give it the 91% Alcohol bath! )
[2] Priming and re-painting the body. Finish with a flat or semi-gloss clear.
[3] Decals from Microscale. Don't forget the number boards.
[4] Installing "See Thru" radiator and dynamic brake fans from Details West. or Cannon.
[5] Adding MU hoses, correct horns, cab shades etc.

The inside of the shell might have to be "shaved" on some spots. It could then could be placed on an Athearn or Proto chassis. A piece of junk turns into a SHARP LOOKING LOCOMOTIVE. [:D][8D][4:-)]

(BTW: I'm currently rebuilding some "junk" Bachmann Metroliners. I'm having fun!)

This scenario would be good for modelers that have spare locomotive chassis' or that have a very small locomotive fleet and low funds. With "Rebuilt" Bachmann bodies, a modeler running a few Athearns or Protos could remove the bodies of these units and swap them back & forth with the Bachmanns to simulate other "engines on the scene".

As I stated on another thread, my wife's cousin did a beautiful job in taking a cheap but decent Tyco GP20 shell, stripping it, painting and decaling it. He adapted it to fit an Athearn "Blue Box" GP9 chassis. [;)]

Hope this makes those of you with these so called "cheap units" think! It's a great opportunity to improve your skills. Explore the possibilities! [:)][:D][8D][;)][tup]

[cwclark]

you get what you pay for....they are not models not even want -to -be- toys...you will never see a bachmann on my layout...i owned one back in the late 70's..a chassie gp-35... first and last bachmann i will ever own...i'd rather pull the rolling stock with a harnessed mule team than hook a bachmann engine to any of my cars...

[Anonymous]

Cheap is a totally relative term. Compared to HO prices, nearly anything in 'G' scale is big bucks.

If you are into small scale live steam as I am, the average electrically powered locomotive can be purchased for the price of a set of live steam cylinders and valve gear. (one reason I own few locomotives).

I bought a Bachman Spectrum Climax for $300.00, and promptly proceded to convert it to battery power and R/C. It was repainted, weathered and fitted with a few additional detail parts. All the plastic decking on the loco was replaced with stained basswood. For about a $425.00 investment, I got a well detailed, beautifully proportioned logging locomotive. It is a wonderful runner on the mainline and responds so well to control that it can easily do switching operations. Pulling power is more than enough for what I have it do on my railroad. The geared dual motor drive is so powerful that the locomotive easilty slips its drivers when restrained, yet so efficient that it can run 1 1/2 hours on a battery charge pulling an 'average' six car train. It takes less than that time to recharge.

The performance, detailing and appearance are great. It has been said in published reviews that this may be the most detailed model of a Climax offered in ANY scale.

This locomotive has a lot to live up to on my railroad. It is the only electrically powered locomotive I own, all the rest are scratchbuilt live steam. It seems that this Climax knows it is 'second best' when it comes to 'method of propulsion', and is doing its best to win my heart. It is succeeding.

Although the published scale it 1:20.3, it is a model of a small enough locomotive to fit into my otherwise 1:22.5 scale roster.

The Spectrum Climax gets high marks from me on performance, looks, and quite importantly, the ability to 'bash' or customize it to my wants. I am so impressed I have been considering adding a second electrically powered Spectrum locomotive to my otherwise all live steam roster, but the decision process is a long one. I would consider the new Heisler, but this is too large a locomoive for a railroad locked into 1:22.5 scaling, ironically because of 'Big Hauler' rolling stock available when I sarted in the hobby.

[dand200]

I just bought a Bachman Spectrum - FM Trainmaster, more because I've been looking for that type of loco, than because of the name. It was cheap and I believe that I got what I paid for. I was satisfied by the details but it ran like a piece of junk. Even after I cleaned every inch of track on my layout before running it for the first time. It would stop in mid-run where my other motive power cruised right through. The lights work at ramdom intervals that seem to be some type of morse-code signal and it won't go 12 inches without slipping even though it is a fairly heavy engine. I'm going try and tune it up but I have already written it off.[:(!] Other Spectrum loco's I saw in the hobby shop were not impressive. The paint job on one engine was so bad I was asking the employee if it was a factory reject. The first engine I ever bought was a Stewart and it has run like a clock since the day I bought it.
I would only but 1 or 2 before investing in that line of products for your layout. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have any experience with their acela set? I've had experiences with bachmann, and I'd like to know more before I buy. [:)]

[Anonymous]

After "surfing for fun" this morning, I came across this Forum article and, although posted a while ago, I felt I had to comment.
I started my collection with Bachmann steam locomotives: one Consolidation and one Mikado. This was in 1984, give or take. Just recently, my Consolidation "burned up", I put it on the track and it just sat there, (electrical)smoke pouring out of the firebox. I will try to repair it. because up until then, it ran great. Not all of my Bachmann's are so good however. I recently bought, at the same time, two Northern types- one GS-4 and one Niagara. The GS-4 runs great-quiet, has sufficient draw bar power, etc. The Niagara is another story. I cannot keep the front pilots on the track, I have weighted them with extra lead weights, I have oiled the slot where the pilot travels, I have super banked the curves-NOTHING. One other problem is coupler height-way off!
I also have several of their "Spectrum" series- a K-4 Pacific, a 2-8-0 Condolidation, and a 44 ton GE switcher. Agreeably the Spectrum series is better by far. But I also have a Broadway Limited Imports J1e Hudson, it too has front pilot problems, plus the front wheelset of the tender doesn't want to follow my curves (22" radius), (yes, I checked gauge, it's good) and I have a set of Rivarossi E-6's that run better with the dummy in head-end mode and the powered unit running in reverse (if the powered unit runs a head end power, it is jerky, seems to loose contact, runs slow, etc., but in reverse is as smooth as anything). As for the J1e, I have e-mailed Broadway Limited for suggestions for those problems, but have never heard back. As bad of a reputation as Bachmann seems to have, at least they do answer e-mails.
I am not defending Bachmann as such, I just want to point out that all manufacturer's have their good and bad points, some just more than others.

[Supermicha]

Low production costs=low prices!

Where are low production costs? yes, asia. So the engines are cheap. Look at an Atlas model! A german model engine with so many details costs 200 or more dollars and why? Its produced in germany or austria, where the wages and additional expenses are much higher.

Micha

[Budliner]

I too like my buckmann engins I have 5


B -

[Gunneral]

I have just purchased an N Gauge Spectrum Light Mountain and it`s a first rate Loco, it looks great, runs great, and the detail is terrific! It is as good as, or if not, better than my Spectrum Consolidation! Keep them coming Bachmann!

[Anonymous]

I personally work in G scale, and Bachmann produce detailed steam engines that are among the best runners out their. Of course, that is their Spectrum line as it is the only line they offer in G scale, but they do run well and many modlers buy them for both their details and also their drive systems. I personally have no experience with Bachmann in the smaller scales, but they make great engines for G.

[Anonymous]

i like the cheapo Bachman stuff. people buy it, then virtually give it away in disgust. i take these rejects and use them for parts. it is amazing just how many bits and pieces one can salvage from these locomotives and reuse them in scratch building. as far as i can ascertain, there is no other use for the low dollar, low end Bachman steam locomotives. i am strictly steam era, so i cannot comment on their low buck diesel locomotive offerings. oh yes, i do not reuse the Bachman motors or gears. they are strictly landfill

plenty of coal, enough water, good steam pressure. keep 'em rollin'..

tom

[pbjwilson]

Santa delivered a H.O. Bachman Mckinley Explorer set for my 8 yr. old son for Christmas. I was very impressed with the quality of the set especially when you consider the price-$65.00 at my local hobby shop, ooops I mean Santas workshop. The engine runs great even with the cheapo transformer in the set.
The passenger cars have interiors and e-z mate couplers. Last year I purchased a Lilliput set The Zillertal . To my surprise it was made by Bachman. I would'nt hesitate to buy any products made by bachman. Hey, I've spent hundreds of dollars on Lionel engines and have been very disappointed. The Bachman stuff is consistant and affordable.

[Anonymous]

I just got a Spectrum HO 4-8-2. Thing runs like a dream! I have had it pulling one 50' box car so I guess I haven't seen how much it can pull before crapping out. Another good thing is that most of todays Bachmann's (in Ho anyway) come with EZ mate couplers, which are compatible with Kadees! Yay!

[emdgp92]

I have a pair of Spectrum F40PHs. The only thing that I see wrong with them, is that the grab irons are mounted flush, and the numberboards don't quite fit in the boxes. I've had no trouble with them. They run great!

The only reason I can see buying their cheap F9s (the ones with the motor in the tail), is for stuffing the chassis under Tyco RF16s. Other than that, I'd rather buy Athearn's F units :)

[Anonymous]

i was one of the unfortunate many that wasted their money on those Botchmann Spectrum 8-40C's and CW's. those things had the worst paint, and you were lucky if they ran for a week before crapping out.

but, i did have an F40PH and except for the glaring faults in the shell, it ran really well. and i really liked the flashing strobes on the roof.

Spectrum steam locos are among the top of the line. i cant figure out why their steam locos are so good, but their diesels are basically crap. (which gives crap a bad name.)

i havent tried their electrics except for the acela. i liked the acela and i am hoping that their bullet train will be as good or better.

i would recommend staying away from Botchmann diesel locos.

if ou want something really top of the line, go with Atlas or Kato or Athearn Genesis. they all run beautifully and have great detail.

[Anonymous]

In HO, the two state-of-the-art brands are Atlas Master and Kato (I like Atlas, others think Kato is best).

P2K and Stewart are tied for third.

Athearn Genesis is fourth.

You usually won't go wrong with any of the top three (lemons occur even in Katos).

QUOTE: Originally posted by DoctorScrypt

ok, well i guess ill just buy their loco's to practice paint schemes :)
Thanks everyone, btw, whats the best brand loco? Proto 2000? I ask because id like to have maybe 1 or 2 "Flag ships" for my fleet.

[Anonymous]

I agree about the P1Ks. They would be an excellant starter loco!
Mine all run smoothly.

I disagree about Athearn Genesis - for the dollar, you come out ahead buying the greatly superior Atlas Master locos (or even the Classics) - MUCH better detail, far fewer parts to add, and one of the three best motor-drives available (tied with Kato, with Stewart coming in a close third). I like the P2Ks better than Genesis, too.

I also disagree about what someone said about Bachmann Spectrum - the diesels are still inferior (although some of the steamers are great).

My New Years resolution:

No more Bachmann (I don't need any more steamers) or Athearn products - or in-Accrurail or Roundhouse, for that matter !!!

I'll stick with Atlas, LL P2K/P1K, Stewart, Kato, Branchline and Kadee products - that way I feel that I get my money's worth!

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

Doc,

Just my two cents again but my suggestion for a good brand of starter loco would be a Proto 1000. They run as well as the 2000 series, but just not as highly detailed and they cost less. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with the 2000's at all, they just cost more. The decision is yours and there are a LOT more different models available, a lot more, in the 2000 series versus the 1000.

Also, many are VERY happy with Athearn. They have been in the hobby for many decades and were kind of the standard for many years. I'm not sure if the engines they are happy with are the newer Genesis series or are just talking Athearn in general. The Genesis ARE very good. The old standard Athearn units, IN MY OPINION are just that...OLD standard...as in they were pretty much the only half way decent running and low cost locos IN THEIR DAY. If you are planning to just let the trains run around and around, they should be fine, but in my experience they just don't cut it if you want more realistic, slow speed running and switching operations. This is just MY experience with them. Maybe the newer "cheap" Athearns have been improved, at least motor wise, I don't know. But I think they use the same drive components. Others more knowledgeable will have to chime in here.

Of course the Atlas, Kato, Stewart and possibly Walthers line of locomotives run well, too, but they're going to cost more as well. One suggestion, I believe you indicated you live in Bloomington, Illinois, if I recall. They have a monthly train swap/show there, as well in nearby (to you) Peoria. Take your time and check these meets out and see what the various vendors have available. Compare prices and look for a good deal pricewise, and you just may find a very good running engine at "reasonable" cost. Look in MR magazine, and possibly at their website, for show schedules. Your local hobby shop proprietor may/should have info on where and when the meets are in your areas, as well.

Regards,