RTR vs. Kits

[cjcrescent]

This is just an observation, and is based entirely on personal experiences, of what my boss and I have seen over the past two years. I work with a another model railroader, who is a dealer at train shows. We've done shows from club shows, to NMRA meets, to GATS, to Gold Spike, to Greenbergs, all over the Midwest and South. We've done shows in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Kentucky, Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, North & South Carolina. This is what we have observed in this time. RTR is not selling as well as it was. And its not just us, when we talk to other dealers, a majority tell us their RTR sales are down too. Why? I don't know as RTR was about 50% of our sales at one time. We've handled the latest and greatest from IM, KD, Atlas, Athearn, IHC..., if it was offered RTR, we carried it, and carried it, and carried it. At one point it got so bad we marked the RTR down to cost just to get rid of it. We couldn't give the stuff away. BUT what has been selling is used assembled kits, generally Accurail, MDC and Athearn cars we buy from individuals or from estate sales. These cars sell even better than the new kits for the same car and the kits are generally cheaper.

Again this is not to start a flame war or anything but is just a personal observation.

[Anonymous]

KITS! for modellers.
RTR for toy train operators.
(don't take that too seriously! Please!)

And, as for cheaper... they Were much cheaper.. now they're expensive (when you figure the cost of your time, your labor in locating them, the fact that you can't even look into the box in many shops... Jeez, they're getting to be a pain, just like many of the manufacturers).

[Anonymous]

Dispite what some of you will say, there are less and less kits on the market. Walthers used to provide very good steam era kits, they provide no kits now. Intermountain, LLP2K, Red Caboose, Kadee used to provide only kits. Now some of them provide only RTR and most provide both. Who knows what is going to happen with Athearn and MDC at this point in time?

The demand is increasing for RTR! The manufacturer's are responding to that demand.

I, on the other hand, only want kits. Kits are why I am in this hobby. When kits "Go by the boards", I will likely move onto another hobby. I am talking HO and not talking about locomotives, only rolling stock. I think it unlikely MDC will be selling any kit steam locos anymore, which is a sorry state of affairs!

We all need to be aware of the fact that this is the direction this hobby is going and if we don't want to loose kits, we need to stop buying RTR and start buying kits.

That's my soap box, again, on this subject!

[chicirjs]

I don't see it as the challenge to build a kit, or the degradation of model railroading if I purchase an RTR model. I have specific cars that I need (want) to acquire in order to simulate specific prototype operations. If those cars/engines are kits, so be it. If they are RTR, then I will spend the extra money to get the equiptment I need (want) and use the additional hobby hours for assembling kits or on other aspects of the hobby.

[JerryZeman]

I voted for both.

The bulk of my rolling stock is Accurail. I also have a large quantity of Intermountain and Red Caboose kits, most of them unbuilt, due to the large amount of time required to put them together.

There is definitely a place for RTR. I have purchased about 20 Intermountain, Red Caboose, and Kadee RTRs over the last four years. If it wasn't for them, I'd be even further behind in getting quality rolling stock on my railroad.

Time is a large constraint to many of us. My railroad is 30x32, with a double deck extension and helix in my crawl space, and the construction of that beast alone takes the bulk of my modelling time.

I actually prefer building car kits, and painting brass locos, cars, and cabooses, but I need some place to run what I make, so the layout comes first.

regards,
Jerry Zeman

[n2mopac]

While I certainly prefer kits, I enjoy periodically buy a very inexpensive rtr piece of rolling stock just to experiment with replacing details, weathering (sometimes quite heavily), or modeling derrilict or scrap cars/parts. This can be quite fun and a great challenge. One of my favorite pieces of rolling stock on my layout is an old cheap rtr covered hopper that I replaced the trucks/couplers on, detailed and wathered to look like a 30 or 40 year old piece. I'm not sure that my kitbashing of rtr pieces was what this thread had in mind, but I do enjoy it.
Ron

[tstage]

Locos: For right now, RTR - although I don't mind adding the extra details that come with the box.

Rolling stock: DEFINITELY kits!!! It's just more rewarding to put together a kit.

Perhaps at some point I'll take the plung and try building a locomotive. For now, a rolling stock kit is about the best I can afford at the moment.

Tom

[bn7026]

It's a lot more fun with the kits. You feel like you've done more than just pull it out of the box and plonk it on the track.

Mind you i've got lots of kits still in the cupboard that I bought over 5 years ago....

Tim

[darth9x9]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RMax1

It takes only a couple minutes to basic assemble an Athearn box car in most cases. 2 screws and maybe 3 drops of glue and you have the same car they charge $10 more for. When it comes to gondolas, box cars, reefer, and basic hoppers they are incredibly simple. Even the basic passenger cars with their touchy windows are easy. If you buy an Athearn rtr box car over the same car in a kit for $8 to$10 difference because you are afraid of the complexity someone has got you snowed. Even most of their loco are easy to basic assemble. You can decorate them as much as you want. There are even no decals to apply. I buy godolas by the bunches. I like them. They are probably the simplest car to assemble for someone that is afraid of kits. Try one and see.

RMax

That may be the case for Athearn kits but the Intermountain kits are whole other story. I would gladly pay $25 a car to ship the unassembled IM kits I have to China to have them assembled and shipped back. It would be worth every penny!

[3railguy]

I like Athearn shake of the box kits because they are economical, easy to assemble, and look good.

[RMax1]

It takes only a couple minutes to basic assemble an Athearn box car in most cases. 2 screws and maybe 3 drops of glue and you have the same car they charge $10 more for. When it comes to gondolas, box cars, reefer, and basic hoppers they are incredibly simple. Even the basic passenger cars with their touchy windows are easy. If you buy an Athearn rtr box car over the same car in a kit for $8 to$10 difference because you are afraid of the complexity someone has got you snowed. Even most of their loco are easy to basic assemble. You can decorate them as much as you want. There are even no decals to apply. I buy godolas by the bunches. I like them. They are probably the simplest car to assemble for someone that is afraid of kits. Try one and see.

RMax

[Anonymous]

After just finishing some Intermountain Cylindrical grain hoppers, I am now starting to review my stance against RTR. Those kits were INHUMAN!![}:)]
Next time,,,its RTR for them,,,fer sure!

[fec153]

Today I bought 1 kit and 2 rtr. Prices were almost identical. Just have to weigt the rtr's.
The local show, In Deland,Fla.,has some very good deals.
Fla.Phil

[darth9x9]

For the price, nothing can beat an RTR Intermountain freight car. Red Caboose and LifeLike RTRs are a close second.

Don't get me wrong, there is a place for kits but when you need to amass a large fleet, the RTRs pricing is getting more competitive everyday.

[Anonymous]

Forget RTR rolling stock. Kits are the only way to go! (I have seen the light[;)])

[nfmisso]

The unwillingness to try kits expressed by several above amazes me. Putting together an Athearn, MDC, or Accurail kit ranks up there in skill level with changing an incadescent light bulb in a bedroom light fixture - well actually below that, because to get to the light fixutre most of us under 7' tall need a something to stand on. They aren't called "shake the box kits" because they are difficult........

[Anonymous]

I like kits, for the most part, but Intermountain cylindrical grain hoppers are the type of kit that I prefer in RTR<
Too damn many little parts!!!!!!!!!

[on30francisco]

I prefer RTR for locos. I like to scratchbuild rolling stock and structures out of wood but sometimes will use some of the resin and plastic structure kits.

[Martin4]

I prefer kits for my rolling stock but more easily go RTR for locos since I would care about ruining a 200can$ loco, I think most locos are a bit complicated to paint, but I like detailing them. I own 62 locos and only 4 of them are undecorated. But I only have 3 RTR cars on a 414 car roster.

Martin
Québec City

[Mikeygaw]

i prefer RTR because i'm not very skilled at building things, but i go for both

[Anonymous]

Kits.

See my thread "RTR. Is it just me or is it truely crap?" to find out why.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SuperChiefFan

[:)]Outta the box and onto the track--that's the way I like 'em! I wouldn' be adverse to trying my luck with a kit in the future, though. It could be fun. My skill level at the moment however doesn't inspire me to tackle kits at this time.

[;)]DONT WAIT BUY UM NOW! THEY ARE CHEAPER AND THEY INVOLVE BUILDING WHICH IS PART OF THE HOBBY, RIGHT?! [8D] they are not that hard to assemble, most only require you to snap on the body and snap in the trucks with out glue in most cases

[Anonymous]

i like rtr if they are built right because they are more sturdy but i like to make sure things are done right and build them myself with kits ( it also gives me more of a feeling that I created the layout)

[Anonymous]

Kits for rolling stock, RTR for loco's (because I don't have a spray booth, as soon as I get one, there's a couple of Resin M420W's and GMD-1's coming my way)

[Anonymous]

kits, kits, kits, kits. Where's the challenge in opening a box and plopping it on the rails?

It's up to you, just so long as i can still get kits when I want.

Neil

[Anonymous]

I voted "kits". Although I do some of each; scratch build, RTR and kits, I do kits for rolling stock and haven't, as yet, bought my first loco.

I scratch build structures, scenery and the electronics (I'm a DC guy) that activate crossings and turnouts, etc. I build rolling stock from kits, I haven't tried scratch building rolling stock yet. I plan to buy RTR motive power then detail it.

[Anonymous]

I like both, but prefer kits as they're usually cheaper. RTR models are very nice, but there's more of a sense of achievement with a kit, and a well-engineered kit is a pleasure to assemble.

[fishplate]

I prefer kits,undecorated no-less, in rolling stock and locos. I find the removing
of cast on details, adding detail, painting, and decaling is a stress relief for me.
It's very enjoyable!

[IRONROOSTER]

I buy both. I enjoy building the kits, but I don't have the time to do it all from kits. Also, in S scale there is a very heavy trend to RTR. The two major manufacturers - American Models and S Helper only do RTR (AM used to do kits but switched). What I really like are the old wood kits, which I find occasionally at train shows. Once I get the rr running I will also do a little scratch/parts building.
Enjoy
Paul