Bulbs in engines, and pass. cars when using DCC??

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I am very new to the whole HO world. My intrest originated in O gauge, but due to budget constraints I think that HO is going to be much more affordable for me. I will hopefully be starting a modest layout in my garage in the near future, and will most defenitely be going the DCC route. I was at a train show last week and the one vendor I was talking with said that if you run trains and passenger cars with regular light bulbs(not l.e.d.'s) while under DCC it will blow out all of the bulbs! Is this true? What happens to engines that have L.E.D's for light? In the O gauge world you set you voltage for 18 volts, and you didn't have to worry about bulbs blowing out. Is it the same in HO? When you want to run DCC, you power up the transformer to a set voltage, and then run trains, is this correct? Any help would be greatly appreciate. Thanks

Jeff Strong

[Anonymous]

well it won't blow the bulbs out, but the life expectancy goes down. you have few options available:

1) run the DCC system at a lower Voltage output (can work but on more intense layouts not good)
2) can install a voltage regulator in the passenger cars to keep the volatage low to the lights.
3) install LED lights in the cars (haven't tried this so don't ask me how they look)

LED's can handle (and are designed for) higher voltage opterations, so they will perform just fine on DCC.

Jay.

[preceng]

LED's will do the job. You can even set them up for constant lighting.

[AntonioFP45]

I will be using L.E.D (Light Emitting Diodes) on every locomotive that I convert to DCC for front & rear headlights, numberboard and class lights.

However, for "Gyra-Lights" I will be using bulbs. I'm not sure but it was either Joe Fugate or one of the other electronics-techs that explained that LEDs don't give a "realistic" Gyra-light effect because L.E.Ds turn on and off instantly, whereas light bulbs turn off or "fade out" more slowly; helping to convey the Gyra Light effect. [8D][8D]

(Those of you familiar with this, please chime in as I'm NOT an electronics expert.)

For my passenger cars I'm going to experiment to try and get a "Flourescent LIght" effect in some of my Rivorossis and Walthers cars. The Walther's lighting kits are beautiful but they give off yellow incandescent light. My only "nit picker" point is that prototype streamlined cars like diners and observations used flourescent lighting. Coaches often had both.

One modeler I met suggested that I try white-colored semi-transparent mylar sheets cut into strips and put in front of the bulbs. I have thought about using the "Blue-White" LEDs as remarkably the bright lighting they emit looks flourescent! [8D] But the down side to LEDs is that they're "Point Sources" of light and not very good at spreading light out like a standard bulb.

If any of you have suggestions, please post them! [;)][:D][8D][;)][8)]

Peace, High Greens and a salute to American Veterans![4:-)][tup]

[ckape]

You can use incandescent bulbs on DCC, but you have to either buy bulbs designed to operate on a higher voltage or install a limiting resistor in series with the bulbs (or wire more than one bulb in series).

[cacole]

Most DCC systems put something around 14 Volts DC on the track, with the high-frequency DCC signals superimposed over that. A typical DC power pack can put out 16 Volts at full throttle, so the bulbs used in passenger cars are usually rated for up to 16 Volts. Under normal circumstances you should not need to modify illuminated passenger cars. I have a 7 car set of Bachmann Spectrum Santa Fe Heavyweights that have been ran on a DCC layout for over one year with no problems. Locomotives are a different problem if you're adding a decoder to one, because the newer Athearns, for example, use 1.5 Volt bulbs and a decoder puts out 12 Volts. For locomotives, you usually have to add resistors or change the bulbs.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

Most DCC systems put something around 14 Volts DC on the track, with the high-frequency DCC signals superimposed over that. A typical DC power pack can put out 16 Volts at full throttle...because the newer Athearns, for example, use 1.5 Volt bulbs and a decoder puts out 12 Volts. For locomotives, you usually have to add resistors or change the bulbs.

So if both DC & DCC put out around 14-16 volts, why did Athearn use 1.5v bulbs in the Genesis units? I'm new to DCC as well, and will have to convert some Genesis units as well as a bunch of Stewarts...any tips?

[rrinker]

Those 1.5v bulbs are driven across diodes on the circuit boards, and the voltage drop across a common silicon diode is 1.2 volts, thus the bulbs work fine.

On Stewart units, the LEDs have rsistors int hem to take care of the problem. If the Stewart had a decoder socket, you can just plug in the decoder and it will be fine, the output from the decoder function will still go through the resistor and the LED will be fine.

On Proto2K though, you need to either replace the bulbs or uses resistors. Or better yet just use the Digitrax DH163L0 decoder, it already has the current limiting resistors for Proto2K bulbs. It's a direct plug in, takes longer to take the shell off than actually install the decoder. Only the GP32 needs some extra work, the number boards have seperate bulbs that are not correctly wired for DCC. If the Proto2K is an SW9, NCE makes a drp in decoder for that unit that includes current limiting for the rear light which is hard to get to to replace, and for the front light you can connect an LED directly - see the installation instructions on the NCE site, it's the easiest decoder to install in those particular models.

Always remember that since there is a DCC standard, you are not in any way limited to using only decoders from the same company as your actual system. Your best bet is to always use the best decoder form-factor and connection-wise for the job, regardless of brand. The CHEAPEST way is generally to hard wire everything, but that requires understanding how the wiring goes and doing a bit of soldering. Unless you have some experience at this, it's probably best to start simple.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

One question I've been puzzling over for a while now - are the Walthers light kits DCC compatible as built or do the bulbs need changing? Wondering if I'll melt anything should I go DCC!

[rrinker]

Walthers light kits will work fine, they have a voltage regulator in them. However, get too many of them on the track and you may have trouble after a short circuit, they use a rather large capacitor in the circuit and this causes a high inrush current when power is first applied. The best thing to do with passenger cars is install a function-only decoder and your own lights. That way you can kill all the lights on the cars that are sitting in the coach yard.

--Randy

[Budliner]

http://www.pollensoftware.com/railroad/index.html

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Walthers light kits will work fine, they have a voltage regulator in them. However, get too many of them on the track and you may have trouble after a short circuit, they use a rather large capacitor in the circuit and this causes a high inrush current when power is first applied. The best thing to do with passenger cars is install a function-only decoder and your own lights. That way you can kill all the lights on the cars that are sitting in the coach yard.

--Randy

Good one Randy! I had not even considered the consequences of having several Walther's cars with lights in them.

Question: If I installed Function Only" decoders on, let's say 5 Walther's cars with lighting kits, could they all respond to the same address and CV for turning the lights on and off?

Thanks!

[rrinker]

Sure could. If you have sets of cars that always run together, might as well use the same address for all. If you switch passenger cars around as aprt of operation, then you'd probably just want to consist them each time as the train number or something. In fact, you could consist all the cars with the loco(s) as the train number and then you don't even have to select another address to turn the car lights on and off. Select the train, throttle runs engine, F0 turns the engine lights on and off, F1 or whatever turns the car lights on and off!

--Randy

[Anonymous]

On my DCC systems I use primarily LED's, very easy to hook up and the new golden whites are very realistic. If you want to use bulbs, use 14 or 16 volt bulbs and you do away with alot of circuitry issues. The reasons I have changed to LED's are two fold:
1. Longer Life
2. Cooler Operating Temp (bulbs will melt plastic if they get hot)

If you're interested in LED's contact Scale Rail Graphics.

www.scalerailgraphics.com

Their LED's come with a simple wiring diagram for DC and DCC and the correct resistors. (minor soldering required)
Good Luck!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice! I'll be buying lighting kits for as many of my cars as possible now - bit tricky to find over here but my LHS sometimes has them.

[cacole]

You can get LEDs much cheaper from a mail order electronics supplier such as Mouser Electronics or DigiKey, but I don't know about those golden white ones being available from them yet. Those seem to be available only for hobby use, so you pay a premium for them.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Sure could. If you have sets of cars that always run together, might as well use the same address for all. If you switch passenger cars around as aprt of operation, then you'd probably just want to consist them each time as the train number or something. In fact, you could consist all the cars with the loco(s) as the train number and then you don't even have to select another address to turn the car lights on and off. Select the train, throttle runs engine, F0 turns the engine lights on and off, F1 or whatever turns the car lights on and off!

--Randy

Randy Thanks! I've saved this thread into a folder. I'm now going to update with the addition of your info! [:)][:D][8D][8)]