galaxy wrote: PASMITH wrote:This is an example of another thread that ended in 2007. Yet it reappears on page 2 of the current forum as a result of rrinker's post of yesterday @ 9:19PM. Where is his post of yesterday that apparently brought it back to life? ( Of course I probably just destroyed the record of his post of yesterday with this reply.)Did we experience an unexpected intersection with some dark energy yesterday or, was it just a bug in the current maintenance program at MR. I am old enough to be technology challenged but, what am I missing here? Peter Smith, MemphisIf someone edits one of their previous posts in a thread, it automatically "bumps" the thread without adding a new post.For example, if a year from now I add to this post I am typing now by adding the words "hi guys!" to the end of it, it will bump this thread back to the head of the line, but this post will still have its original date on it. This will happen even if this post I am typing now is not the last post a year from now.Make sense?
PASMITH wrote:This is an example of another thread that ended in 2007. Yet it reappears on page 2 of the current forum as a result of rrinker's post of yesterday @ 9:19PM. Where is his post of yesterday that apparently brought it back to life? ( Of course I probably just destroyed the record of his post of yesterday with this reply.)Did we experience an unexpected intersection with some dark energy yesterday or, was it just a bug in the current maintenance program at MR. I am old enough to be technology challenged but, what am I missing here? Peter Smith, Memphis
If someone edits one of their previous posts in a thread, it automatically "bumps" the thread without adding a new post.
For example, if a year from now I add to this post I am typing now by adding the words "hi guys!" to the end of it, it will bump this thread back to the head of the line, but this post will still have its original date on it. This will happen even if this post I am typing now is not the last post a year from now.
Make sense?
Nope...doesn't happen here. I just tried it on a post of mine on page 3. Guess what? It's still on page 3!
It was a spammer bumping old posts. The spammer was deleted, as were his (her) posts. That's how the old threads got to the front.
At least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
Since this came up again.... Other places that have come up for the museum are Pipestone MN, Jasper MN, Clayton KS, Castana IA (Yes just north from where the tornado tore up the boy scout camp), Thayer MO (a town big on the old FRISCO and crew change location for the BNSF), and Burlington IA (While it was almost the perfect location and perfect building, it needed tooooooo much initial work to get the project underway). I have three properties currently under "negotiations" in IA, western KS, and eastern KS.
Oh yeah, and the only location currently underconsideration back east is in NY, it is listed for a ludicrous price compared to the others, but it has been on the market for over two years and the price is slowly coming down. However, an idle building usually deteriorates much quicker than the price until it is TOOO late. A case in point is/was the Burlington Apollo High School mentioned above. It sold for $145K two years ago and the new owners invested over $30K. It just sold again two months ago for about $90K and needs $250K worth of work just to get started renovating.
Texas Zephyr;
When you get your museum set up and have a web site for it, please let me know and I'll add a link for it to my directory of model train museums:
http://modeltrains.about.com/od/modelrailroadmuseums/Model_Railroad_Museums.htm
If anyone has links to museums I haven't listed, please email me with them.
hardcoalcase wrote:Chattanooga, TN - I recall there is a large club layout there, and somewhere in Tennessee (anyone know?) the Model Railroad Hall of Fame with models and layout sections from the "the Great Ones". Besides... who can resist the mystique of the Chattanooga Choo-Choo?
Are you thinking of the one in the Chattanooga Choo Choo mall? The mall is in a Holiday Inn that used to be the Chattanooga Terminal Station. That museum is, at the moment, 3rd on my list (alphabetically).
How about a bid for Charlotte?
The only one of the 20 tracked cities where the proprty values are not dropping.
Growing so fast that we have had to built 15 new schools in the last 5 years.
No separate school tax.
Junction of two Interstate Highways, I-77 and I-85.
USAirways largest hub with more than 400 departures a day and the Airbus maint facility.
Amtrak service to NYC via DC, Baltimore, and Philadelphia. (Amtrak Crescent)
Amtrak service to New Orleans via Atlanta. (Amtrak Crescent)
3 State sponsored Amtrak trains a day in addition to the Crescent.
Northeast high speed corridor currently being extended to Charlotte.
http://www.sehsr.org/
Federal Reseve Bank, and the corporate headquarters of two of the largest banks in the US, Bank of America and Wachovia.
NASCAR Hall of Fame is currently under construction across the street from the Charlotte Convention Center.
http://www.nascarhall.com/
http://www.charlotteconventionctr.com/
The light rail line goes right through the middle of the convention Center.
http://lynxcharlotte.com/
Two NASCAR race weeks, including the longest race, the CocaCola 600 and the Allstar race.
New NHRA Drag Strip
http://www.lowesmotorspeedway.com/
Most of the NASCAR race shops are here, generating a lot of tourist traffic.
Carowinds Theme Park, generating a lot of tourist traffic.
Carolina Panthers NFL team.
Charlotte Bobcats NBA team.
http://carowinds.com/
Etc.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
It doesn't make sense, but it DOES happen.
I got to poking around in my archived posts, noticed a typo that completely changed the meaning of a word and corrected it.
Viola! The Grade Change on a Curve thread that had run its course back in February suddenly reappeared on Page 1.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - when the garage cools off)
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Safety Valve wrote:Pittsburgh and North/East of that area is pretty hard to get into I remember the area as being about 10-15 years behind a little bit. Uphill, downhill, sideways... cooked many a brake pad before my cheap killjoy company ever used jake brakes on trucks.. oh wait.. I hired onto richer and better equippted companies that HAD jakes in the beginning. I learned to drive without one but cost many a scare along the way.Strasburg is where you want to be or Steamtown. Anything along the Dutch Country with it's abundance of food and drink definately where you want to be at. I dont see too much food in the coal fields north of Pittsburgh. Also keep in mind that PA is a Commonwealth and it is my experience that they like to close the interstate during what I consider moderate winter weather. I used to cover State College, Milesburg and Seven Mountains Grade in the hills along others with what I would consider Chain Country in 1-2 feet of snow during storms.These are a people that keep to themselves, self reliant and otherwise very ... eager to take children to exhibits as they dont cost very much and takes up a good saturday afternoon at times when the weather is good.I found Pittsburgh to be a City that is indeed a Mountain area and it is hard to get into and out of. I swear that if something bad happened that ended the world as we know it, Pittsburgh will take 20 years before the Rust finally started to glow or otherwise change color to indicate such an event. Sorry, I had to put it in there.South of Pittsburgh is a story of coal mining and some losses along the way, hardly a place to celebrate trains as the people seem not to be too interested in it, unlike others in Erie, Binghampton, Lancaster and Scranton. Gettysburg fought off a Casino Push and is now being threatened by housing sprawl. I dont think Gettysburg is very big on trains in the real prototype however have had two good model shops (One closed and other carried on by Danny Gilberts) The other hobby shops at New Oxford and nearby locations also appear to be closed as well. I have not been through there much in the last 10 years but I suspect that Gettysburg is experiencing development pressures that is unnatural for a National Battlefield Military Park.My final choice will be Strasburg as there is a TCA, Penn Museum and other train friendly venues. Oh, one other thing I remember a museum near "Frystown" (A cookie if you find THAT little place he he) that was O scale and something that must have been way way way back in time I doubt that they are still open, I think they were called Roadside America or something along that 78 there. That 78 is particularly dangerous to the west of Allentown, hopefully they have expanded or eased some of the curvature along there.
Pittsburgh and North/East of that area is pretty hard to get into I remember the area as being about 10-15 years behind a little bit. Uphill, downhill, sideways... cooked many a brake pad before my cheap killjoy company ever used jake brakes on trucks.. oh wait.. I hired onto richer and better equippted companies that HAD jakes in the beginning. I learned to drive without one but cost many a scare along the way.
Strasburg is where you want to be or Steamtown. Anything along the Dutch Country with it's abundance of food and drink definately where you want to be at. I dont see too much food in the coal fields north of Pittsburgh. Also keep in mind that PA is a Commonwealth and it is my experience that they like to close the interstate during what I consider moderate winter weather. I used to cover State College, Milesburg and Seven Mountains Grade in the hills along others with what I would consider Chain Country in 1-2 feet of snow during storms.
These are a people that keep to themselves, self reliant and otherwise very ... eager to take children to exhibits as they dont cost very much and takes up a good saturday afternoon at times when the weather is good.
I found Pittsburgh to be a City that is indeed a Mountain area and it is hard to get into and out of. I swear that if something bad happened that ended the world as we know it, Pittsburgh will take 20 years before the Rust finally started to glow or otherwise change color to indicate such an event. Sorry, I had to put it in there.
South of Pittsburgh is a story of coal mining and some losses along the way, hardly a place to celebrate trains as the people seem not to be too interested in it, unlike others in Erie, Binghampton, Lancaster and Scranton.
Gettysburg fought off a Casino Push and is now being threatened by housing sprawl. I dont think Gettysburg is very big on trains in the real prototype however have had two good model shops (One closed and other carried on by Danny Gilberts) The other hobby shops at New Oxford and nearby locations also appear to be closed as well. I have not been through there much in the last 10 years but I suspect that Gettysburg is experiencing development pressures that is unnatural for a National Battlefield Military Park.
My final choice will be Strasburg as there is a TCA, Penn Museum and other train friendly venues. Oh, one other thing I remember a museum near "Frystown" (A cookie if you find THAT little place he he) that was O scale and something that must have been way way way back in time I doubt that they are still open, I think they were called Roadside America or something along that 78 there. That 78 is particularly dangerous to the west of Allentown, hopefully they have expanded or eased some of the curvature along there.
It's actually Shartlesville, and called Roadside AMerica, and yes, it's still there. I was there as a kid, several times, and I've taken my own kids. It quite amazing when you realize how much was scratcbuilt, and just how long ago it really was made.
I dunno what's so dangerous about 78 west of Allentown, it's damn near straight, ahrdly a curve at all, from route 100 west to the 81 connection. I drive there quite frequently, and apart from truckers goign 90 down hill and 45 uphill, mixed with NY and NJ drivers passing through who just HAVE to get in front of everyon else, it's not bad. Right now expect traffic jams do to construction work near Hambug and the route 61 interchange, and if it snows stay off the road because Fast Eddie and his cronies in PennDOT won't properly clear the road and you might be stranded for days.
My vote is for Bethlehem, since onthe site of the former Bethlehem Steel they are already constructing historical museum-type things. It;s also just blocks from Lehigh University, founded by Asa Packer to train engineers for his Lehigh Valley Railroad, not to mention being the source of top officials of most of the coal haulers in the area - LV, Reading, etc. The primary NS east-west route from NJ passes right next to the site and the other side has a defunct line that connects the Allentown Yard to the former Reading Saucon Yard - the last use of this line was to haul away the scrap metal from tearing downt he Bethlehem Steel plant.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Safety Valve wrote: 7 thousand in property taxes?I may maybe 30 dollar a year on the home and a few dollars more on the cars and that's it. WHAT are they doing with 7K?
7 thousand in property taxes?
I may maybe 30 dollar a year on the home and a few dollars more on the cars and that's it. WHAT are they doing with 7K?
Paying teachers outrageous salaries and pensions. 90% of us that work in industry only dream of having pensions and health insurance like they do. The rest goes into 100 million dollar school additions to keep up with the school district next door. It is pretty common to see yearly school tax increases of 7% to 15% a year.
If not already said, the town of Bethlehem, where Bethlehem Steel once was... is pretty cool... the old husks of this once grand steelmaker are pretty impressive. As for all of the above, I loved Strasbourg and Lancaster (I used to live in Paoli, PA....)
Brian
hardcoalcase wrote: Anywhere on I-380 between Scranton, PA (the Steamtown Park) and Strasburg, PA (the namesake RR and the PRR Museum) certainly draws the RR enthusist.
There's already a toy model rail road museum near strasburg. I've been there. Too bad as it's the ideal site near the PRR museum, Amish tourist district, Caboose motel, Hershey, Harley Plant, etc, etc...
Land is relatively cheap. So are houses. The major cities are Philly, Pittburg, Harrisburg, Lancaster, Erie, York. Medium size cities include Hershey, Hanover, Williamsport. Outside that, Pennsy is composed of a series of SMALL towns located between mountain ranges. Therefore the weather isn't always the best. The roads are also horrible.
Income tax is small, however the local school board dictates your property tax. This means you are at the localities mercy if they decide to build a $154,000,000 school, and in the process raise taxes to pay for it. My house is assesed at $254,000 and I pay $7200 in school property tax each year. (This is the main tax)
Cost of living is considerably cheaper. Food is cheap. Except for Philly, traffic jams are non existant. Service is also top rate, and people are friendly.
If the toy model railroad museum wasn't already in stroudsburg, I would have said that's your best bet.
York is a major artery to Baltimore. From what I understand a number of MRR's come down I83 through york to go to the Great Scale Train Show in Timmonium 4x's a year. Also there is a big model train show in York every year. But this is only 40->45 minutes west of the toy model railroad museum, and York isn't a major tourist stop except for the Harley plant.
You might be able to catch vacationers going to Hershey park. But again, this is only 40->45 minutes from the toy model railroad museum.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Safety Valve wrote:Regarding the southern attitude, ... The unforseen complication is it can take you 2 hours to get out of the grocery store catching up on the latest with 50+ people from one end to the other. Sheesh.
tgindy wrote:The Dayton location would be harder to get to because of its rural nature and winding roads, .... It takes a good 5 hours to traverse Pennsylvania on I80 or the PA Turnpike.
Put it someplace where you'll get state or local support and synergy...Steamtown. They're keen on railroad tourism there, plus it's easy distance for simple weekend trips from NY/NJ, Philly area. Poconos are nearby hop, already a weekend destination magnet. Lots of cool railroad tradition in anthracite country. Just market it well.
Tupelo is "Little Vegas" we have gambling there that is RIVALING Vegas for it's glitz and glory.
South of Memphis is a bad area filled with Kitty clubs etc. The part of that delta isnt much better, should you walk there with a dollar, they can smell it. Trains are the last they look at there.
Forget Tupelo.
Regarding the southern attitude, there are some areas here that have good towns with good people. The unforseen complication is it can take you 2 hours to get out of the grocery store catching up on the latest with 50+ people from one end to the other. Sheesh.
hardcoalcase wrote: Anywhere on I-380 between Scranton, PA (the Steamtown Park) and Stroudsburg, PA (the namesake RR and the PRR Museum) certainly draws the RR enthusist.
Anywhere on I-380 between Scranton, PA (the Steamtown Park) and Stroudsburg, PA (the namesake RR and the PRR Museum) certainly draws the RR enthusist.
I rather think you meant Strasburg. Agreed, that whole axis is steeped in railroad history.
Chattanooga, TN - I recall there is a large club layout there, and somewhere in Tennessee (anyone know?) the Model Railroad Hall of Fame with models and layout sections from the "the Great Ones". Besides... who can resist the mystique of the Chattanooga Choo-Choo?
Chattanooga is the HQ city of the NMRA (which, I believe, is the home of the Hall of Fame,) which is close to one terminus of the (1:1 scale) Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum. The large club layout is in the "Chattanooga Choo-Choo," AKA the former Chattanoooga Union Station, now a hotel-restaurant complex.
Tupelo, MS has the birthplace of Elvis and an excellent auto museum.
Unfortunately, Tupelo has precious little else - except an attitude problem. It's also poorly located.
Googling for clusters of railroad-related attractions could create a short list of locations for you.
Since you said you're primarily a western person, I think you should avoid the Southeast, because of the aforementioned attitude problem - "If you ain't Southern, you ain't nothin'." Chattanooga or Nashville might not be as bad, but Tupelo is over the top.
In your Google explorations, you might consider areas with heavy tourist traffic, not necessarily purely railroad related. In any case, try to pick a place that is readily accessible to the long distance traveler.
Chuck (Native New Yorker, ex-Nashville resident)
My vote is also for Strasburg.
I've stayed at the Red Caboose Motel (25 or so cabeese turned into motel rooms, large LGB layout in the main house which is flanked by 2 coaches turned into a restaurant. The Strasburg RR is just down the road and you can smell, hear and see the steam engines go by twice an hour, it's heaven.
Across the street from the Strasburg RR is the Pennsylania Railroad Museum, lots to see there. About another 1/2 mile down the road is the town, which had a pretty decent hobby shop the last time I was there. And this is all in the middle of Lancaster County, which is Amish country (rural farm). It's really gorgeous there.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
SpaceMouse wrote:Culturally, well, there's a joke about our area. It is said that if the world were to blow up, it would be 10 years before Western PA heard about it. Others refer to it as Penntucky.
Culturally, well, there's a joke about our area. It is said that if the world were to blow up, it would be 10 years before Western PA heard about it. Others refer to it as Penntucky.
My area is apx. 35 minutes southeast of SpaceMouse, and since we have a southern accent, we call it "Pennsyltucky" because the former 4-track Pennsy mainline goes through town. We have another saying about the city fathers: "All we need is to build just one more parking garage, and the people will abandon free parking at the suburban malls."
The Dayton location would be harder to get to because of its rural nature and winding roads, and while the Falls Creek site has better access from I80 and is near DuBois and Clarion State, it is a 2+ hour auto hike from major population centers and is still rural. My hunch is both towns forgot to tell you about Western Pennsylvania winters => We chuckle at how 2" of snow creates mayhem in Southeastern PA or just over the Mason-Dixon Line.
Pennsylvania is defined by its rivers and mountains, and these two factors further define the path of every interstate. Driving times are longer than you think by just looking at Mapquest. It takes a good 5 hours to traverse Pennsylvania on I80 or the PA Turnpike.
This is not meant to discourage you, but to give you an idea of what to realistically expect. This area of Pennsylvania has a lower cost of living, and is a bit more laid back, and is a nice place to live.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
hardcoalcase wrote: Just thinking out loud... a speciality tourist attraction (such as a MRR museum) may not have enough "pull" by itself to generate sufficient traffic; so locating where other attractions are situated creates some synergy. Some places that come to mind would be:Anywhere on I-380 between Scranton, PA (the Steamtown Park) and Stroudsburg, PA (the namesake RR and the PRR Museum) certainly draws the RR enthusist.Chattanooga, TN - I recall there is a large club layout there, and somewhere in Tennessee (anyone know?) the Model Railroad Hall of Fame with models and layout sections from the "the Great Ones". Besides... who can resist the mystique of the Chattanooga Choo-Choo?Tupelo, MS has the birthplace of Elvis and an excellent auto museum.Googling for clusters of railroad-related attractions could create a short list of locations for you.Note: Stroudsburg (where I live) is in eastern PA just south of Steamtown/Scranton. Strausburg is the site of the PRR Museum and is located much further south in Lancaster County.
Just thinking out loud... a speciality tourist attraction (such as a MRR museum) may not have enough "pull" by itself to generate sufficient traffic; so locating where other attractions are situated creates some synergy. Some places that come to mind would be:
Note: Stroudsburg (where I live) is in eastern PA just south of Steamtown/Scranton. Strausburg is the site of the PRR Museum and is located much further south in Lancaster County.
hardcoalcase wrote:a speciality tourist attraction (such as a MRR museum) may not have enough "pull" by itself to generate sufficient traffic; so locating where other attractions are situated creates some synergy.
SpaceMouse wrote: I am about 60 miles North and East of Pittsburgh and I don't know those specific locations. Although they are both within about 45 minutes of me. The area up here is mostly coal mining, but everyone is out of work with the advent longwell mining. The area is very depressed and therefore gas and food are slightly lower than the national average. Culturally, well, there's a joke about our area. It is said that if the world were to blow up, it would be 10 years before Western PA heard about it. Others refer to it as Penntucky. Much more than that I can't say without more specific requests. As far as taxes go, property values are among the lowest in the country so taxes will be commiserate.
I am about 60 miles North and East of Pittsburgh and I don't know those specific locations. Although they are both within about 45 minutes of me. The area up here is mostly coal mining, but everyone is out of work with the advent longwell mining. The area is very depressed and therefore gas and food are slightly lower than the national average. Culturally, well, there's a joke about our area. It is said that if the world were to blow up, it would be 10 years before Western PA heard about it. Others refer to it as Penntucky.
Much more than that I can't say without more specific requests. As far as taxes go, property values are among the lowest in the country so taxes will be commiserate.
I live in NY..Binghamton, at the PA border, N 1hr or so of Scranton ,where steamtown is.I am near the famous Nicholson viaduct bridge.(big huge long arched series RR concrete Bridge)
Here, there are those who *lovingly* (although I am not one) who will call it "pennsyltucky". Apparently it is farther away from spacemouse to garner afew more letters of "pennsylvania".
Here we have lots of hills and mountains. Gas prices in PA are usually cheaper than NY (NY, Cal, HI being the most expensive.)However, it really is not worth the trip just to get gas.
Good luck with your adventure.