O.K..........I need an answer.......

[Anonymous]

As you all probably know by now (if you don't, where have you been?), I'm obbsessed with Big Boys. I mean, I usually talk about them in every post or reply. So now, I think this'll be my last question about them. How small of a curve can a NEW HO rivarossi Big Boy take? And also, being on a 5x8 or 6x8 layout, could my layout handle one? So please tell me what curves I need.

(i'm sorry if i'm annoying, with all my posts and all. just, someone answer this question, please[?][;)])

[Anonymous]

the NMRA lot have recommendations on their web site. go there you fool!

I would guess it would be about 28". On the other hand many of the plastic models claim to be able to go around 18" curves because they have un-protypical articulation. They will look a bit odd doing it though.

I would have thought that it will look okay on 22" radii but I would try to get a 26" radii to make it look better.

Hope that helps.

By the way - one of those Garratts from DJH could take a model big boy any day! They are kits so they are made of white metal and brass and they are powered by a Portescap RG7- a motor designed for 7mm or O scale locomotives.

[Anonymous]

The Marklin-Trix version of the Big Boy tech spec's state that it will run on curves down to 14 3/16 (see http://www.ttx-dcc.com/tonystips/2001/121101b.htm )

The Rivarossi version may be built differently and have a larger minimum radius. In any event, the bigger the curve the better it will look and operate. As neilmunck noted above, bigger is better - 26"+. Probably not going to make it on a 4x8 or even 5x9 [:(]

You could however, make the layout focus on an engine facility, with a big turntable, coaling tower or oil spout, water, etc and have one "in the yard" for service...

Andrew

[Jetrock]

That's an idea--if you just went for a long shelf layout, you wouldn't have to worry about tight curve radii--you'd just need a big turntable or two. And an engine facility model would let you have a disproportionately large number of big lovely engines without having to worry about too much other rolling stock...

[Anonymous]

to be true to prototype, as i pointed you elsewhere, a "Big Boy" needs a 40" curve to look proper. but I'm assuming that they've designed the models to go on a 22" minimum, as that seems to be the standard for the longer engines. go 26" and you should be fine.

Jay.

[Anonymous]

Will 26'' fit on a 6x8?

[dharmon]

It should. A 6 x 8 table would be 72" x 96". A 26 " radius curve would have a 52" diameter at it's widest point. I'd say the greatest you could reasonably go on a 6x8 is a 32-34" radius, presuming you are basing your radius on track center.

[Anonymous]

O.K, but someone told me since I'm using E-Z track, I should use larger curves than that, like 35" or 36". Tell me, is E-Z track not "'d or scaled correctly?

[Anonymous]

No EZ track is just like any other code 100 track. use 22" e-z or 26" e-z, since they don't have a 24"

Jay

[eastcoast]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Will 26'' fit on a 6x8?

[B)]
A question for you.
Since you want to run this HUGE piece of equipment,
do you have the room to modify your layout in any way???
A 6 x 8 is ok for some things , NOT A BIG BOY , and the
table concept does not give adequate space to work on
comfortably without knocking things down.
If you have an option, do not put any track on the inside of
this table layout. OR put a viewblock , like a hill or tall structure
town in there. BUT.... make sure you have PLENTY of clearance
for that engine and the cars it pulls. ARE ALL YOUR LOCOS
4884'S ???
[:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eastcoast

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Will 26'' fit on a 6x8?

ARE ALL YOUR LOCOS
4884'S ???
[:p]

No, they aren't.[;)] By view block you mean like a backdrop in the middle? Why would I need a back drop? I was planning on the outter line being wide enough for a big boy, and then 1 or 2 inner main lines on 22" or 18", then with a small frieght yard and maybe 1 or 2 braches. What do ya think.[?]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by eastcoast

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Will 26'' fit on a 6x8?

ARE ALL YOUR LOCOS
4884'S ???
[:p]

No, they aren't.[;)] By view block you mean like a backdrop in the middle? Why would I need a back drop? I was planning on the outter line being wide enough for a big boy, and then 1 or 2 inner main lines on 22" or 18", then with a small frieght yard and maybe 1 or 2 braches. What do ya think.[?]

I think it's YOUR layout and you should do what makes YOU happy, regardless what any of us say. You may experience problems with the Bigboy on the inner tracks, but I guess you won't be using it as a switcher anyway. I personally would go with flex track on the outside and make as large a radius as you can to make it look better and run smoother without binding it up.

[Anonymous]

sell your house, buy a big older house, get divorced, use the entire living/dining area for your railroad, use 40 inch min radii. quit dreaming about mission impossible, do it right for a change.

[Anonymous]

tpaulsen... that sounds like a plan, but I think 4884bigboy is only 14 years old or so...

Andrew

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

tpaulsen... that sounds like a plan, but I think 4884bigboy is only 14 years old or so...

Andrew

Hmm...Commit parents to insane assylum, convert entire house, except kitchen, 1 bath and 1 bedroom to a train room. then you can have 60" curves! [:D]

Jay

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

tpaulsen... that sounds like a plan, but I think 4884bigboy is only 14 years old or so...

Andrew

Actually I'm 13. Oh, tpaulsen, I'm doing it right already. I'll find a way to do it, it's not impossible. I'm on adventure[:)]. I'll write a book someday called, "Fitting long wheel base locomotives into small places". Sounds like a cheesy title, but I'll work on it.[;)]

[lupo]

I let one of my Rivarossi 4884's run on my son his 3x4 lay-out, It looked very silly with the boiler sticking out, but it ran! and witout letting them run, they are great to look at!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info, LUPO. Isn't 3x4 awfully small for HO? Not that it is bad but, if he has one that small, he must be very creative! How old is your 4884?

[SSW9389]

We had a member run his Big Boy on our club layout. It did fine on the outside main with 34"+ radius curves, but tripped up on the other main that pinches down to 27". It tripped over a #6 switch that was not quite level. Of course that deals more with the vertical curves (ups and downs) than the horizontal curves we are talking about.

[cacole]

I and two other members of the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club run Rivarossi Big Boys on the club layout with minimum 22" radius curves. I think Rivarossi claims that it can negotiate down to 18" radius curves, but the overhang would look very unrealistic at that small radius; it appears unrealistic even at 22" radius. The 28" or 36" radius curves look far better.

[Anonymous]

I've got an older generation Big Boy, bought in 78' when I was 16. Ran it on 18 and 22 inch curves, It ran so so and jump the track alot.

What I found out was that the turns had to be perfectly level, no bumps as the front engine was constantly trying to climb over the rails.

At this radius the BB looks ungainly and out of place.

My suggestion is either:

-hide your curves in tunnels, beware of derailments
-instead of table top go for "wrap around the room"
-Go N scale

and remember.......









ALLEGHENY's rule!
(they can also turn on tighter curves!!!)

[Anonymous]

Hello neilmunck,

QUOTE: By the way - one of those Garratts from DJH could take a model big boy any day! They are kits so they are made of white metal and brass and they are powered by a Portescap RG7- a motor designed for 7mm or O scale locomotives.

Excuse my drooling all over this post but the idea of a real artic has me salivating. I have always wanted a BG, I think I saw a part of one once from a distance, LMS shed so it might have been. Is there such a thing as an H0 or 00 BG that you know of?

I remember reading about Beyer Garratt and some US mallet maker competing for a South African contract. The big US mallet failed dismally in both real traction and economy and required a massive upgrade in rail to pull the equivalent of the BG. The BG does hold the title to the heaviest and most powerful locomotive to ever haul on 50 pound rail.

Just as an aside I only recently found out that I had been pronouncing 'mallet' completely wrong and feel such an idiot. Didn't even know that the Swiss dude Jules Anatole Mallet made them in 1877. I wasn't paying attention back then I guess.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LightBender

Is there such a thing as an H0 or 00 BG that you know of?

Yes; see:

http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/acatalog/DJH_Model_Locomotive_HO_HOm_Scale_RTR_Garratt_Loco_s_81.html

[Anonymous]

4884:

Side comment here. I have been told your generation is computer literate. If true why don't you do a bit of research on your own? The NMRA website has answers to this particular question as well as many others which will surely come to mind.

Also, as has been mentioned, in the space you have to work with a huge piece of motive power such as a 4-8-8-4 will be entirely out of 'scale', dwarfing everything else, not to mention a prototype size consist will have the nose of the locomotive nudging the back of the caboose. Additionally you will likely have easement problems with the excessive overhang. Stick with 4 or 6 coupled power for the present.

Randy

[Anonymous]

Some advice GO AS BIG AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Thanks for the info, LUPO. Isn't 3x4 awfully small for HO? Not that it is bad but, if he has one that small, he must be very creative! How old is your 4884?

my son now is 6, and the 3x4 feet layout I made for him when he was 4, on a piece of left over wood and track, to let him run his small diesel switcher and cars, mostly "hand " powered because he was to young to understand stuff like electric motors and transformers. When he asked me if the bigboy could run on his tracks we tried it and it did. I have several 4-8-8-4 's all Rivarossi (4002, 4005, 4006, 4013 and 4023) the oldest model I gues is about 10 years I bought it second hand, the newest is the 4023 I bought last year. the older ones doesn't have RP25 wheels and the wheels are not black. You can recognise these older models as they came in a long straight box with a window, and the newer ones are packed in closed rectangular red boxes, engine and tender in separate packaging.
and by the way: If you want to run a 4884 on your layout as small it might be: YOU are the boss in your own model world! so you decide what you run!

[wireflight]

I'm curious how many folks have actually seen a Big Boy (or any other articulated) operate. I've seen some video of prototypical operations, including switching, and it "messed with my mind" pretty strongly to see the swingout be as radical as it was.

According to what I've learned through research, the prototypical Big Boy would negotiate a 20-degree curve. That translates to a prototypical radius of approximately 287 feet and 11.262 inches (no, the thousandths of an inch likely didn't mean a lot, but I wanted the extra detail).

I used to have speed info (how slow for a given curvature), but I can't find that now.

Anyway, for HO (1:87) modelers, that translates to a minimum radius of 39.716 inches; for N modelers (1:160), that translates to a minimum radius of 21.596 inches. And at these scales, the thousandths of an inch become much less unimportant.

I've read that Uintah's Baldwin 2-6-6-2 Mallets could climb a 7.5 % grade while simultaneously negotiating 60-degree curves (prototype radius = 100 feet exactly; HO scale = 13.794 inches; N scale = 7.500 inches). There was an even sharper, 66-degree curve on the same line, but I don't know the grade -- the prototype radius is 91 feet, 9.647 inches; HO scale = 12.663 inches; N scale = 6.886 inches.

So, just because it's huge doesn't mean it *necessarily* took huge radii to roll it around.

My point is this: a prototype Big Boy or Challenger DID (and in the case of Challenger No. 3985, STILL DOES) look freakish when operating over tight radii. The Trix #T22599 Big Boy in HO supposedly can negotiate curves as tight as 14.1875 inches radius -- which translates to a prototypical 58.169 degrees. Granted, the Big Boy would never have made it through such a tight curve in real life, but other articulateds did -- and when you get right down to it, it's more about enjoying the experience, isn't it? The casual observer is probably going to have the same "oh my goodness" reaction when he or she sees a Big Boy articulating to negotiate a 20-degree curve as when he or she sees a HO-scale Big Boy negotiating a 15-inch radius (prototypical curvature = 54.745 degrees) curve -- which I hope you have confined to yards. The common 18-inch radius curve in HO translates to a 45.057-degree prototypical curvature, and the common 22-inch radius curve in HO translates to a 36.538-degree prototypical curvature.

I hope you found this helpful.