On another forum I know a lot of guys use Flitz polishing compound to polish out the rails, and then they swear that they NEVER have to clean their rails again. Sounds like another push to polish the rails?
Mark in Utah
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
My fault. I was joking about the rail grinder, and did not say so.
I have been messing with model trains for over 30 years and I have never had a problem with keeping nickel silver rails clean. When they start to get dirty, I just wipe them down with a hard cloth like an old percale sheet, dampened with a strong solvent. I usually have to do this about every 6 to 9 months, maybe. I just don't see what the big deal is.
Interesting concept with the lead. After all the hoopla a while back over that "gleaming" process, I thought I would put that method to the test. For my test, I used a section of parallel main lines. On the first, I vigorously polished the rail with metal polish and buffed it to a chrome-like finish. The other main was first sanded with 800 grit paper, then 1200 then finally 1600. At that point, I burnished the railhead with a large stainless steel washer and did a final polish with the same metal polish as the other track.
After six months, the sanded / burnished / polished track STILL looks like bright shiney chrome - the other track that was polished only still looked clean, but definitely had lost it's shine. There didn't appear to be any difference between the two as far as conductivity was concerned .... yet.
Through a magnifying glass, the polished only track, while clean and shiney, was covered in small pits and scratches. The track that had the full treatment had very few marks what-so-ever in the surface. I'm sure over an extended period of time ( years maybe ) the fully treated rail is going to require considerably less maintenance.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Years ago I learned an old trick to get balky one-lung motors to spring to life. Remove the spark plug and rub the electrodes with a pencil. Replace, and you will most definitely get spark if the current can get to the plug. So, if the graphite enhances combustion, it must spark, itself, and I can't see that being useful on twin rails with opposite polarites feeding a small motor and decoder, or one slightly uneven tracks where the longer steamers break contact with the rails and cause minor arcing. Maybe I am missing something about the whole thing.
One other thing: when I found, to my dismay, that I had to clean Floquil Rust off the tops of my rails (I forgot about the oil treatment, and thought I had more time to wipe the rails), I found myself scrubbing the rail tops transversely to the axis of movement on the rails. So, I rubbed sideways across the rails. Naturally, this left a very slightly roughened surface, even though I used 300 grit or finer. Imagine my pleasant surprise when I found subsequently that my steamers seemed to improve their ability to pull longer trains on my grades afterwards. (I don't mean an order of magnitude, only that locos that may have slipped a bit did not do so later). Since the wheels are rotating along the rails at any given speed, there is very little wear on the wheels, but the static rails give added bite to them. So, some intrepid modeller with a little time would have to undertake a controlled study to find out which stays cleaner over time, and which adds the most performance to one's locomotives, particularly on grades, the gleaming and other polishing methods, or one in which you transversely roughen the rails somewhat. this would be more complicated than it might at first seem, since one would also have to control for the use of plastic vs. metal wheelsets, since the folk wisdom is that metal are better.
I've read about other attemps at improving performance, including the "Gleaming" method which you mentioned. The difference here is the because the lead is so much softer than the rails, you're really wearing down the lead with the rails instead of vice versa. You're actually ADDING material instead of removing it. The reason why I used lead is it's the softest readily available metal I can think of, and this process consists of rubbing a "filling agent" into the rails to smooth out the texture. You're adding material that "dresses" the rails and fills in gaps, as opposed to "polishing" which removes the ridges. It's a constructive rather than destructive process.
The only thing that is about as soft as lead would be gold, but at ~$650 and ounce, I don't think any model railroader here could afford to treat 2 feet of track! Aluminum might seem to be another alternative, but aluminum oxide is a poor conducter and you'd find yourself cleaning your track more than ever.
Like I mentioned, (perhaps not enough) lead is a dangerous substance. It will cause a variety of health problems if it is ingested. Very low levels are not especially harmfull, but prolonged exposure will cause illness.
Now I think of it!! Forget the lead, use GRAPHITE blocks as the finishing agent. Graphite is soft enough, even though it is brittle, to fill in the gaps and ridges on the rails. Even better, pure carbon graphite does not readily oxidize as far as I know, so it should conduct electricity very well. The only problem is it will be slippery, and I don't know what to do about that.
If you are interested in polishing your rails, I will tell you the way to get the absolute best surface; and I mean a mirror finish quality. Get a fine grain soap stone, the kind used for sword and knife sharpening, and make about 500 laps with light pressure applied to it.
As for a grinding train, I didnt actually mean a prototypically operating one!!! I just ment that I wish somebody would make a model of a grinding train, with cleaning brushes in place of the prototypes grinding heads. If the model was an articulated prototype, I'd put the motor in the rear, with cleaning heads on the first "grinding" unit and wiping cloths on the following units. It would beneat for operating sesions as well. If you have a stretch of dirty track, dispatch the "grinder" to it, and have fun trying to run trains around it as it crawls at 5 mph!
Matthew Imbrogno-Mechanical Vollenteer, Arizona Railway Museumwww.azrymuseum.org
Personally, with the health hazards of lead, I don't think it's worth the risk. Polishing the rails with 600 grit sandpaper up to say 2000 grit does sound interesting.
Enjoy
Paul
What we really need, like you said, is a scale rail grinding train.
It could true up the rail and be prototypical at the same time. Although I don't know how this would be accomplished. If it was even possible, it would likely be very expensive. I would imagine the grinding cars of the trainset would have to be brass, or other metal just to be heavy enough to work right. Also the grinding pads will likely have to be replaced often. And what if the track is really dirty? The grinding train will stop grinding if it looses power. So maybe a rechargeable battery system would be better. If the trainset is long enough, several on board batteries could be hidden in accompanying tank cars and other support cars, all joined with micro connectors. But this works much better in the larger scales, not HO.
Also if the grinding was done often, or the trainset stalled for some reason, I could see the rail becoming too thin, or unevenly ground. I don't think anyone would want to have to rerail their layout because a grinder got a little hungry.
So it sounds like a great idea, but there's probably a good reason we haven't seen one yet.
Rail Grinder
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Other than the fact that lead is unacceptably toxic--I deal with heavy metal toxicity almost on a daily basis, I have a question.
We know that silver/nickel oxides conduct electricity and brass oxides do not. Do lead oxides conduct elctricity, or are we trading good track for bad?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Hello everyone!
I wanted to share the results of an interesting experiment I tried. Like all of us, I hate the problems of electrical conductivity between wheel and rail. I went a little further than just blaming it on dirt however. I put a piece of NEW rail under a 60x microscope, and I was amazed at the amount of ridges and gaps and stratification there was on the rail head. You might think that the surface of brand new rail would be nice and perfectly smooth, but you'd be wrong.
The problem of all that texture is twofold. First off, you get less total contact area between the wheel tread and rail, limiting traction and conductivity. Secondly, those ridges are perfect for catching dirt and grease and gum, which of course builds up and leads to even more problems.
One issue affecting both conduction and traction is weight. Smaller model trains (HO and under) really don't have the weight necissary to press the wheels firmly into the surface layer of oxid and dust on the rails to contact the cunductive metal underneith. And yes, I said oxide. You may not realize it, but virtually all metal surfaces are covered in a thin layer of oxidized material. Even right after you clean it, the air instantly oxidizes the exposed surfaces of metal as soon as you lift the cloth away. Generally the oxide is not an issue, it is semi-conductive and so thin that offers very little resistance, but if it builds up or becomes a solid coat on the rail, you won't get very much power through it. Oxide is also the agent which actually attracts and bonds the dirt to the rails, requiring you to apply at least some mechanical effort, be it with a bright boy or the cloth roller used with chemical cleaners, to break it up.
So, my experiment focused on treating the texture of rails, smoothing them out to reduce the total surface area that dirt and increase the actual contact area between the wheel and rail. Basically it's a polishing job, but one with a twist.
I first cleaned the track to be treated to remove any existing gunk. Then I dressed the top of my rails by drawing a lead block across the rails many times until they had a nice light grey shine. Lead has many interesting properties that make it an ideal finishing agent. Lead is soft, you can shape it with your hands (wearing gloves mind you!). Because it is so soft and ductile, it will fill in the ridges and gaps in the rail as you rub it in, to leave a perfectly smooth surface. It conducts electricity very well, and even it's oxide has little resistance to voltage. Also because it is so soft, it will be molded by the train wheels as the pass over to make a perfect match to their shape. Any dirt that does collect on it would either be broken up and brushed off the side of the rail, or pressed below the surface of the lead by the action of the wheels. At any rate, it can stave off cleaning for a bit longer than normal track alone.
It does have a few drawbacks though, and they are important ones. Lead is poisoness, so it must be handled carefully, preferably with gloves. That means you also should not run your finger along the rails once you have treated them, and you should advise any guest operators against doing so as well. The same goes for car wheels that have run a while on treated rails, as they will collect a little bit of lead from the track head. When it comes time to do a thorough cleaning on the track, it may take a little more effort as you will need to remove the lead to remove the dirt that has been crushed into it. You'd also have to redress the track afterwards. Finally, lead is a little more slippery than nickel or brass, and you may find yourself with a motive power shortage as your engines won't pull quite as much as they did before. Then again, what's a better excuse than that to go out and buy more?!
Well, that's about it. I hope you found as interesting as I did. If you'd like to use it, go right ahead. Just be carefull with that stuff, and don't blame me if you should get yourself sick. It does take a bit more effort in maintaning, but the time between maintance sessions is longer, so it kinda balances out. Oh, did I mention that it has a great way of smoothing out rail joints and gaps? I can't say whether it reduces derailments, but it does cut down on the noise level a little bit. Just watch out for block insulations, as you could short those out if you're not carefull.
Have fun!!Matthew ImbrognoMechanical Vollenteer, Arizona Railway Museumwww.azrymuseum.org
PS: How come nobody's though of making a track cleaning trainset out of a railgrinding train?! I think that would look a heck of a lot better than a bright boy stuck under a boxcar! It would have operational aspects as well!