Battery Mess

[Anonymous]

After my father's death, I inherited his collection of 1950s model railroading trains and equipment.  One of his prized possessions was a Santa Fe passenger train set by Lionel.  It has the 2343P, 2343T and 2343C engine combination and five passenger cars.  After being boxed and unused for more than 40 years, I recently opened this set and the other trains I inherited.  The Santa Fe set was just as I remembered and is in great condition, EXCEPT, my father forgot to remove the battery from the 2343P engine when he last packed the trains away.  Needless to say, the 2343P is a mess where the battery compartment is.  Does anyone out there know if this unit is salvageable?  Is there anyway I can remove the battery (which is now unrecognizable) and restore the unit or is this just a permanently ruined engine that I should throw away?

Help!

[simon1966]

I just tried to resurect an electronic chess game that had been stored with batteries in for about 5 years so I can not imagine how bad a mess you face.  I would post the question on the Classic Toy Trains forum section as well as you will get more hits from Lionel users there and perhaps someone has had the same experience.

Remove battery, clean terminals with wirebrush to remove as much of the solid crystaline stuff as possible would be my approach but I suspect you are looking at a far worse mess and probably quite a bit of corrosion.

[Eriediamond]

After removing  whats left of the battery, you may try using a mixture of hot water and bakeing soda. this will neutralize the acid from the battery, and do a pretty good job of cleaning as well. Ken

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Unbelievably, for me at least, the engine still works - forward and reverse.  I was able to get the battery out and much of the corrosion.  The fine cleaning will be very time consuming.  Thanks again!

[MisterBeasley]

Assuming that the battery is inside and hidden from view, you might want to replace the whole battery enclosure with a new one from Radio $hack.  In the long run, it will work better for you.

[selector]

After removing  whats left of the battery, you may try using a mixture of hot water and bakeing soda. this will neutralize the acid from the battery, and do a pretty good job of cleaning as well. Ken

This is excellent advice.  All I would add is that, to the extent possible, work with the locomotive righted, not on its back.  Use a brush to wipe the corroded parts, and keep paper toweling below where you work.  Probably smart to wear rubber gloves since some non-neutral acid debris may fall on you.  But, you should avoid letting fluids drip down inside what appears to be a fortunately still-working relic of the past.   Your good luck, but you could undo it all with one swipe of a wet brush if what you loosen falls further into the works.

[ben10ben]

Carbon-Zinc and Alkaline-Manganes batteries have a basic electrolyte(hence the name "alkaline"), so washing with baking soda won't really do much good.

 

I'd suggest cleaning up as much as you can with distilled white vinegar. This will neutralize  what's left of the old electrolyte, and stop any further corrosion. After that, I'd suggest buying a new battery box from one of the  Lionel parts dealers. They're not too terribly expensive, and will really help things along. In Lionel engines, the battery box is just a stamped piece of sheet metal that screws into the relay-there aren't even any wires to splice or solder. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all of the suggestions.  I think I have my work cut out for me over the next few weekends.

[selector]

Carbon-Zinc and Alkaline-Manganes batteries have a basic electrolyte(hence the name "alkaline"), so washing with baking soda won't really do much good.

 

I'd suggest cleaning up as much as you can with distilled white vinegar. This will neutralize  what's left of the old electrolyte, and stop any further corrosion. After that, I'd suggest buying a new battery box from one of the  Lionel parts dealers. They're not too terribly expensive, and will really help things along. In Lionel engines, the battery box is just a stamped piece of sheet metal that screws into the relay-there aren't even any wires to splice or solder. 

Yes, you are quite right.  I assumed that the old batteries were the acid type, but I guess our friend can sort that out and do as seems appropriate.

[miniwyo]

I would go to the store and buy a small can of Lectra motive, and just spray it into a rag and wipe everything down, that stuff owrs wonders with corrosion on electrial parts.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Carbon-Zinc and Alkaline-Manganes batteries have a basic electrolyte(hence the name "alkaline"), so washing with baking soda won't really do much good.

 

I'd suggest cleaning up as much as you can with distilled white vinegar. This will neutralize  what's left of the old electrolyte, and stop any further corrosion. After that, I'd suggest buying a new battery box from one of the  Lionel parts dealers. They're not too terribly expensive, and will really help things along. In Lionel engines, the battery box is just a stamped piece of sheet metal that screws into the relay-there aren't even any wires to splice or solder. 

The white vinegar is exactly the agent to use. All the baking soda will do is push the mess around and possibly make it worse.

[Eriediamond]

Carbon-Zinc and Alkaline-Manganes batteries have a basic electrolyte(hence the name "alkaline"), so washing with baking soda won't really do much good.

 

I'd suggest cleaning up as much as you can with distilled white vinegar. This will neutralize  what's left of the old electrolyte, and stop any further corrosion. After that, I'd suggest buying a new battery box from one of the  Lionel parts dealers. They're not too terribly expensive, and will really help things along. In Lionel engines, the battery box is just a stamped piece of sheet metal that screws into the relay-there aren't even any wires to splice or solder. 

Thanks for the correction on my advice. I offer my appologies for this. I just naturely thought of the procedure we use on lead acid automotive batteries. What was the pupose of the batteries anyway? I've had a few lionel trains back in the 40's-50's but none had baterries in them, but then they were all steam engines. Ken

[ben10ben]

Lionel diesels of the '50s and '60s had buzzers in them that provided a very poor imitation of a diesel horn. Unlike air whistles, which ran off of the 12-20 volt AC track power, the diesel buzzers depended on low voltage DC.

When the horn relay closed, by seeing a slight DC offset on the track voltage, it gives the buzzer 1.5 volts of nice, clean DC from a D cell battery. It also had a big advantage in that it put some weight right on the frame, thus allowing for a little more traction.

Unfortunately, because the battery could easily last for 5 years, it was easy to forget it and let it corrode.

Some engines were even shipped from the factory with a battery installed. Some collectors will even have mint-in-box sealed diesels X-rayed to find out whether or not there's a battery installed. 

[Eriediamond]

 

 

Thanks ben10ben. I had Lionel as a kid but never  diesels. The Lionel I had had shoes on the trucks to operate the couplers and some of the operating cars would uncouple whenyou operated them. Ken

Lionel diesels of the '50s and '60s had buzzers in them that provided a very poor imitation of a diesel horn. Unlike air whistles, which ran off of the 12-20 volt AC track power, the diesel buzzers depended on low voltage DC.

When the horn relay closed, by seeing a slight DC offset on the track voltage, it gives the buzzer 1.5 volts of nice, clean DC from a D cell battery. It also had a big advantage in that it put some weight right on the frame, thus allowing for a little more traction.

Unfortunately, because the battery could easily last for 5 years, it was easy to forget it and let it corrode.

Some engines were even shipped from the factory with a battery installed. Some collectors will even have mint-in-box sealed diesels X-rayed to find out whether or not there's a battery installed. 

[claymore1977]

I worked with lead-acid battery arrays in depth and in addition to the excellent advice posted thus far, I would like to add this:

Basic or acidic, for the love of all thats holy, wash your hands BEFORE using the bathroom else you discover a new level of pain unlike any other.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I worked with lead-acid battery arrays in depth and in addition to the excellent advice posted thus far, I would like to add this:

Basic or acidic, for the love of all thats holy, wash your hands BEFORE using the bathroom else you discover a new level of pain unlike any other.

How well I know about that! Having been an auto mechanic early in my life, I frequently had battery acid residue on my hands. It didn't take me long to learn to wash my hands before taking care of business.

[Soo Line fan]

I would go to the parts store and get some electrical contact cleaner. Remove the holder, if possible and spray it out. A Dremel will work great to clean up the contacts. You will need a couple of the wire wheel attachments.

 

Jim