steve58 wrote:I wanted to bring this old thread back one more time so I could say THANKS to Tom for this review. The info you provided here was enough to help me finally make up my mind on which system I want to get.I will be returning to Model Railroading after having everything packed away for the last 20 years or so. The new stuff I see is amazing! I can't wait to get started again. I am presently in the planning and research mode. Will be another month or so till I actually start benchwork.I've been reading about DCC everywhere I could for the last couple months. I LOVE the internet. Sometimes it seems "the more you learn, the less you know". All of the info was starting to give me a headache. I had "made up my mind" on a system at least 4 times in the last month. But it always kept coming back to the Powercab. I really like what I see. And the review of the Smart Booster now solidifies the decision.
I wanted to bring this old thread back one more time so I could say THANKS to Tom for this review. The info you provided here was enough to help me finally make up my mind on which system I want to get.
I will be returning to Model Railroading after having everything packed away for the last 20 years or so. The new stuff I see is amazing! I can't wait to get started again. I am presently in the planning and research mode. Will be another month or so till I actually start benchwork.
I've been reading about DCC everywhere I could for the last couple months. I LOVE the internet. Sometimes it seems "the more you learn, the less you know". All of the info was starting to give me a headache. I had "made up my mind" on a system at least 4 times in the last month. But it always kept coming back to the Powercab. I really like what I see. And the review of the Smart Booster now solidifies the decision.
Steve,
First off, to the forum! Good to have you aboard!
Secondly, you're very welcome and thanks for the encouragement. I am very pleased that the review helped you in the decision making process. Even if you had decided to go with another DCC system, the review served it's purpose.
FWIW, my plan is to use the Powercab and Smart booster on the layout. I intend to have a programming tack on my workbench. Is there a reason that anyone knows of, why I couldn't use the Powercab and booster on the layout and then just move the Cab to the workbench and plug into the PCP for programming?
Steve, no reason at all. The Smart Booster only needs the UTP panel to operate the Power Cab. You then only need to purchase additional UTP panels and daisy-chain them around your layout fascia, if you are wanting additional plug-ins around your layout.
The Power Cab still needs the PCP panel and the wall transformer to program with the programming track. (Programming on the Main is still accessible through the Smart Booster.) The PCP panel you can just keep at your bench then shuttle the Power Cab between that and your layout.
And just to make sure I really understand, if I ever expand my layout, I can create a seperate "power district" and just add another dumb booster, right?
Yep. The DB3 is connected to the green 3-port Control Bus/GND connector on the backside of the Smart Booster (see picture below)
then the DB3 is connected to your power district. Here's a diagram from pg. 5 of the Smart Booster manual that should clear things up:
Click to enlarge diagram
Although it doesn't show it in the diagram above, additional DB3s can be daisy-chained from one another for additional power districts.
Steve, keep us posted when you get your Power Cab and Smart Booster.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Thanks.
Frank,
Really. Well, that's good news to hear. It still doesn't change anything with the Smart Booster. But it is nice to know that you can still check your CV changes on your program track.
Driline wrote:Yep........so I still have to use the 5 finger method to transfer it to the main line to test the engine
I was wrong. I don't have to use the 5 finger method. When done I simply hit esc. and then check the loco's motor afterwards. Apparently when you switch back to "Main" you get power on both program track and main track.
Made a new discovery late this afternoon. While playing around with the new function options, I found out that when F10 and F20 are ON and displayed in the new viewing mode, they actually come up as a "10" and a "20", rather than just a "0".
Click to enlarge picture
The rest of the two-digit numbers are still displayed by their last number. (See Viewing Function status in original review.)
I'm guessing that the LCD screen that NCE uses doesn't have a fine enough resolution to be able to display both numbers adequately AND make them distinct from one another.
Tom, you are correct in that the main is inoperable while in program mode.
Tim
ereimer wrote:all this talk about the auto-switch makes me wonder if it would work with other DCC systems , say my digitrax zephyr for example . anyone brave enough to try it ?
You don't need it with the Zephyr, the Zephyr has a dedicate program track output that the PowerCab and Super Empire Builder lack.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Tim,
Thanks for your post! I was wondering if that scenario would work or not. Just a note of clarifciation: The main is still inoperable while you are in program mode, yes?
Tom and Driline
I have a PowerCab with the Auto Switch hooked up according to the NCE diagram. I have the program track insulated from the rest of the layout. I can run a loco onto the program track from the main--select "program track" and go about my programing then select "prog/esc" and I can then select the desired direction and speed and drive right off the programing track via a turnout and back onto the mainline. Driline should be able to do this too. The program track functions as part of my mainline when not in "Program Track Mode"
Cheers Tim
I have only a PowerCab, and I wanted to program on a usable spur on my layout. This may not be great, but it's what I did:
The PowerCab Panel Track outputs split and go to an DPST switch to turn the Main on and off and to one throw of a DPDT switch to select the source of power for the progamming track. The other pole of the DPDT connects to the Main. To operate, I select the Main ON and the Programming Track source of Main. To program, I select the Main OFF and the Programming Track source of the booster. To rerail a car, I select the Main OFF and Programming track to Main. Maybe I can make a picture....
BTW, I used identical DPDT switches for both, but I don't use the second throw on the Main On/Off switch. I have insulated rail joiners on both rails between the programming track and the main. I tried installing a bulb for short circuit prevention, but the 1156 bulb takes too much current for the PowerCab. Note that this setup is NOT idiot proof! If you dont flip the switches to turn off the main and try to program, the whole layout becomes programming track. I did this before I learned about the auto-switch, but I think I'll leave it this way until I burn myself :-)
Jim
When you've finished programming in USE PROGRAM TRK mode, press PROG/ESC, then accelerate by using either the speed buttons or the thumbwheel. Your locomotive should move forward or backward - unless the...
You know, Frank, it just occured to me: The Auto Switch is going to prevent you from doing that.
Using the old method, the Power Cab is hooked up to the PCP panel and an SPST switch isolates you from the track so that, when you go from program mode to operation mode, you can still run your locomotive on the programming track. When the Auto Switch is wired between the PCP panel and the track, and you press PROG/ESC to get out of programming mode, the Auto Switch now becomes an "automatic" SPST switch and the command signal is sent to the main. Like the ON/OFF of a light switch, it's an either or situation.
Another way to look at it:
Wiring - Method #1 (w/o Auto Switch) and Method #2 (w/ Auto Switch)
Frank, does that make sense now?
Driline wrote: tstage wrote: Frank,If you're only going to run 2 locomotives at a time on your layout, you don't need the Smart Booster to do that. The Power Cab's 1.7A should handle that just fine.The only advantage(s) to having the SB3 would be if:Your sound locomotives draw an amp each...and you want to run more than one.You really want the freedom of a true walkaround system. For my 4 x 8', the 7' cable that came with the Power Cab was quite adequate for getting around 2 sides of the layout. My recommendation would be:Hook up the Auto Switch to your layout. Buy the CAB-04p or -04e instead - i.e. if you are wanting an extra throttle. Why?Yard mode is way too much fun.The potential of having someone else to operate trains with is even more fun. That can be a friend, a MRR buddy, a child, a relative, a spouse, etc.You get more bang for your buck.Frank, if you hook up the Auto Switch to the PCP panel, let me know how you like it.TomI've hooked the auto switch up and it works just fine. Only thing is when you want to test the loco you have to move it from the program track to the main, as the program track does not allow you to run the engine. Kind of a pain, but thats what the program track is for I guess. To save yourself from blowing up a decoder wired wrong
tstage wrote: Frank,If you're only going to run 2 locomotives at a time on your layout, you don't need the Smart Booster to do that. The Power Cab's 1.7A should handle that just fine.The only advantage(s) to having the SB3 would be if:Your sound locomotives draw an amp each...and you want to run more than one.You really want the freedom of a true walkaround system. For my 4 x 8', the 7' cable that came with the Power Cab was quite adequate for getting around 2 sides of the layout. My recommendation would be:Hook up the Auto Switch to your layout. Buy the CAB-04p or -04e instead - i.e. if you are wanting an extra throttle. Why?Yard mode is way too much fun.The potential of having someone else to operate trains with is even more fun. That can be a friend, a MRR buddy, a child, a relative, a spouse, etc.You get more bang for your buck.Frank, if you hook up the Auto Switch to the PCP panel, let me know how you like it.Tom
If you're only going to run 2 locomotives at a time on your layout, you don't need the Smart Booster to do that. The Power Cab's 1.7A should handle that just fine.
The only advantage(s) to having the SB3 would be if:
My recommendation would be:
Yard mode is way too much fun.The potential of having someone else to operate trains with is even more fun. That can be a friend, a MRR buddy, a child, a relative, a spouse, etc.You get more bang for your buck.
Frank, if you hook up the Auto Switch to the PCP panel, let me know how you like it.
I've hooked the auto switch up and it works just fine. Only thing is when you want to test the loco you have to move it from the program track to the main, as the program track does not allow you to run the engine. Kind of a pain, but thats what the program track is for I guess. To save yourself from blowing up a decoder wired wrong
Huh, well that's interesting. If I use the Power Cab with the PCP panel and hook it up to my program track, I can test the changes right then and there on the program track- without having to move it to the mainline. That was actually one of the advantages to the Power Cab of not having the separate programming terminals, like there is on other DCC systems.
Tom, if I'm only running 2 locomotives on my layout at the same time which may or may not contain a sound decoder, do you think I really need the booster?
I guess the worst case scenario would be 4 locomotives sitting on the track WITH sound, but only running 2 at a time.
I don't want to buy the smart booster if I really don' t need it.
FT,
I was initially confused by Tony's answer myself. But after experiencing what Chuck is referring to with the programming mode being taken out of (overrided on) the Power Cab when used in conjunction with the SB3, I suspect that Tony was confirming my last conclusion.
I agree with Chuck in that I hope that NCE will decide at some point to address the inability to program with the Power Cab while using the SB3. I am disappointed to find that out. I can only assume that there were legitimate reasons why NCE chose to omit that with this new release.
Hi Dan,
The reason you can not use the autoswitch (at least not on this software version) with the SB-3 is they have taken that function out of the cab.....at least this is what I'm seeing on my layout. I'm just using the PCP for my program track only. We can hope maybe NCE will add the functionallity of entering the program mode from the cab while using the SB=3 back in, otherwise we have an autoswitch collecting dust! Hope this helps?!??!
Chuck
Ok, wait.... it "knows" when you are or are not in "Programming" mode, right?
so then you feed the autoswitch your DCC bus it then deals with the "OK, the user wants to use <track>" and switches you over to the right trackage.... (with PCP only)
why wouldn't this work if you were using the SB3 and the PCP connected to the smart switch? I mean, if the thing allows you to choose the track you're going to be using, it should sense when you swap over to programming mode no matter what....
(this is assuming, of course, that I didn't miss something earlier about the SB3 killing the programming track fucntionality of the throttle...)
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Well, that is certainly a confusing answer. If I read your post right, Tom, you asked two opposite questions, and got one yes answer. So, which question is he saying yes to, the first or second?
I have a hard time following this.
FT
UPDATE:
No word from Larry @ NCE but I did hear from Tony @ TTE this afternoon. Here's the e-mail that I sent him and Tony's response:
Tom's e-mail
So, unless Larry has anything contrary to what Tony has stated, it looks like the Auto Switch will NOT work with the Power Cab hooked up to the Smart Booster. That's disappointing news to hear.
tstage wrote:One note. I did receive a response from Larry this afternoon saying that he was printing out my inquiry and would look at it when he got to work tomorrow. I'll keep you posted...
One note. I did receive a response from Larry this afternoon saying that he was printing out my inquiry and would look at it when he got to work tomorrow. I'll keep you posted...
Still no word yet from Larry @ NCE. I also e-mailed Tony @ Tony's Train Exchange to get his input. I'll let you know what I find out.
See Joe Fugate's thread on using the taillight bulbs for an explanation of why they work with the SB3 bu not basic PowerCab - the bulbs are good for a bit over 2 amps, so they will work fine with the 3A output over the SB3, but draw too much current to work with the 1.7A of the PowerCab.
There are likely other bulbs (Mouser catalog for one has some that list the actual bulb ratings, but I haven't looked for a suitable one) that run at between 1 and 1.5 amps, these would work with the powerCab but limiting a district to 1 amp might not be enough to run what you want. It could be that the two locos you want to doublehead draw a combine 1.5 amps - the PowerCab can run this, but if the district has a 1 amp bulb - no good.
Jim,
I would agree with you on your point about the software. When I first got my Power Cab I ran into a couple of funky issues when using it with my BLI 2-8-2 Mike (with QSI sound). When I inquired into Larry @ NCE about it, he said that they couldn't replicate the same things with their setup. (I suspected that there might be some possible conflicts between the Power Cab software and the QSI chip.)
Actually, I probably wouldn't be a bad idea to try the BLI Mike out again and see if those anomalies resurface again. A couple of the fellas on the forum ran into the same issues.
You know, I didn't notice the backwards thing the first time I went into Yard Mode. I didn't switch any wires around, but the second time I got into yard mode, the backwards thing was obvious. I actually tried getting the engine to go forward in normal mode , then switching to yard mode to try to get it to go the correct direction with no success. Yard mode also seemed to have different speed scaling going on. The engine seemed to be working in a much slower range of speeds. I thought that might just be as designed, and maybe could be tailored by changing some CV settings. I'm not sure I could explain why wiring polarity for DCC should affect engine direction. I would have assummed the encoder power supply would make DC of only one polarity regardless of which way the engine was headed, and forward/reverse as selected by the direction button should be applicable to yard mode too. I think there's a cab software issue in there someplace.
Jim (I write aerospace software, including a brushless DC motor control on the Airbus A380 , so this is NOT a slam on NCE :-)
Good Morning Tom,
Thanks for e-mailing Larry, I'll wait to see what he has to say. Meanwhile, maybe it is just me, but my engines seem to run better with the SB-3 also. I've put an EB-3 (3 block circuit breaker) between the output of the SB-3 and my track and all is fine. I left the PCP dedicated to the seperate program track. Thanks for your help,