Runner, thanks for the link for the J1E 4-6-4 Hudson. This one all so got my eye.
Sound, well I am not crazy with the sound quality I have heard at K-10 trains bench. But I have a cheap DCC set up coming so what the heck.
Thanks for all the help folks, I must say I am hooked. My Gs-4's are running better yet. Little tip, pull the center wheels on the tenders, they rub screw that hold the trucks on.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Dave Vollmer wrote:So, for an electric, is a 4-wheel pilot truck called 2 or 4? I guess I'm confused. A GG1 has two 4-wheeled pony trucks and two 6-wheeled drive trucks. Does that make it a 2-C-C-2 or a 4-C-C-4? Just want to be sure. If I'm wrong, sorry for correcting you 1shado1!
What Nelson said. And no need to be sorry! We learn by questioning things, right? It's all good. And besides, I don't get to RIGHT that often, LOL!
Jeff
Dave Vollmer wrote: Well dang, I stand corrected!Sorry!
Well dang, I stand corrected!
Sorry!
Not a problem, Dave. But I think this may mean some N scale coal in your stocking.
Interesting that they use a letter designation for drive wheels, e.g. A, B, C, intead of 1, 2, 3 (Breaks into Jackson 5 routine...)
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
SteamFreak wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote:So, for an electric, is a 4-wheel pilot truck called 2 or 4? I guess I'm confused. A GG1 has two 4-wheeled pony trucks and two 6-wheeled drive trucks. Does that make it a 2-C-C-2 or a 4-C-C-4? Just want to be sure. If I'm wrong, sorry for correcting you 1shado1!Dave,From everything I've read, the electric loco system counts axles, not wheels, making a GG1 a 2-C-C-2. In fact it's described that way in my old Rivarossi GG1 instruction sheet, if that's to be trusted.Nelson
Dave,
From everything I've read, the electric loco system counts axles, not wheels, making a GG1 a 2-C-C-2. In fact it's described that way in my old Rivarossi GG1 instruction sheet, if that's to be trusted.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
SteamFreak wrote: I hope everyone realizes (despite my smilie-free post) that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek when I posted the eBay link.However, a Whyte system designation for the GG1 might be a Pennsy modeler's best argument for running a Challenger. Nelson
I hope everyone realizes (despite my smilie-free post) that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek when I posted the eBay link.
However, a Whyte system designation for the GG1 might be a Pennsy modeler's best argument for running a Challenger.
I was wondering about that, lol! As your post was smile free, I wasn't sure how to respond. A misunderstanding on my part. Oh well. Maybe I'll get it right next time!
Dave Vollmer wrote: 1shado1 wrote: SteamFreak wrote: 1shado1 wrote: FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/Actually, if memory serves, the GG1's wheel arrangement is CORRECTLY written as 2-C+C-2. Electrics and diesels use a different system to designate wheel arrangement than steam locos use. Steam locos use the 'Whyte' system. I don't know the name of the system that diesels/electrics use. In any event, a 4-6-6-4 is commonly known as a Challenger, a GG1 and 2-6-6-2 are not. Don't believe everything you read on ebay.JeffA GG1 would be a 4-C-C-4. Pennsy classified its electrics according to the same system they used for steam. In other words, a 4-6-0 was classified as a G class (like the G5sa), so a GG1 is two 4-6-0s (Gs) back-to-back. The same is true for the DD1 jack-shaft driven electrics which were 4-B-B-4, since a Pennsy 4-4-0 was classed D (like the D16sb #1223 at the RR Museum of PA). It was considered two 4-4-0s back-to-back. Pennsy 2-6-0s were classed F, so the 2-C-C-2 electrics Pennsy bought from the GN were called FF1s.P5as were 4-6-4 (or 4-C-4). The experimental electrics of the 1950s and the wildly-successful E-44s are notable exceptions to this standard.
1shado1 wrote: SteamFreak wrote: 1shado1 wrote: FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/Actually, if memory serves, the GG1's wheel arrangement is CORRECTLY written as 2-C+C-2. Electrics and diesels use a different system to designate wheel arrangement than steam locos use. Steam locos use the 'Whyte' system. I don't know the name of the system that diesels/electrics use. In any event, a 4-6-6-4 is commonly known as a Challenger, a GG1 and 2-6-6-2 are not. Don't believe everything you read on ebay.Jeff
SteamFreak wrote: 1shado1 wrote: FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/
1shado1 wrote: FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.
FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.
It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.
Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/
Actually, if memory serves, the GG1's wheel arrangement is CORRECTLY written as 2-C+C-2. Electrics and diesels use a different system to designate wheel arrangement than steam locos use. Steam locos use the 'Whyte' system. I don't know the name of the system that diesels/electrics use. In any event, a 4-6-6-4 is commonly known as a Challenger, a GG1 and 2-6-6-2 are not. Don't believe everything you read on ebay.
A GG1 would be a 4-C-C-4.
Pennsy classified its electrics according to the same system they used for steam. In other words, a 4-6-0 was classified as a G class (like the G5sa), so a GG1 is two 4-6-0s (Gs) back-to-back. The same is true for the DD1 jack-shaft driven electrics which were 4-B-B-4, since a Pennsy 4-4-0 was classed D (like the D16sb #1223 at the RR Museum of PA). It was considered two 4-4-0s back-to-back. Pennsy 2-6-0s were classed F, so the 2-C-C-2 electrics Pennsy bought from the GN were called FF1s.
P5as were 4-6-4 (or 4-C-4). The experimental electrics of the 1950s and the wildly-successful E-44s are notable exceptions to this standard.
Thanks for the info, Dave. Perhaps I should have made myself more clear. I was referring to the wheel arrangement as designated by the general standard practice, which would make the GG1 a 2-C+C-2, as I stated. I was not referring to how a specific railroad (such as Pennsy) chooses to classify it's wheel arrangements using it's own proprietary system.
http://trainworld.com/broadwayltd/
My advice: Go here, Get the J1e 4-6-4 Hudson. For $50 more than you paid for your first you get amazing sounds and DCC preinstalled for when you convert (you will in time, trust me). It runs on DC just fine. You won't believe your ears and it looks great just sitting there and it pulls its fair share of the load. You won't regret it.
For the same price you can get an RSD-15 or SD-40 diesel and they sound and look great too.
ac4400fan wrote: Congradulations Ken! Now Your in Trobble! Your Hooked haha, I did the same about 6 months ago ,Picked up my 1st steam engine 2-6-6-2 Challenger now just picked up a 4-6-6-4 , so im getting hooked as well ,not to menchen, i started with 3 engines ,now ,im looking and need to get a cabinet built for the many im equmeulating. Carl..
Congradulations Ken! Now Your in Trobble! Your Hooked haha, I did the same about 6 months ago ,Picked up my 1st steam engine 2-6-6-2 Challenger now just picked up a 4-6-6-4 , so im getting hooked as well ,not to menchen, i started with 3 engines ,now ,im looking and need to get a cabinet built for the many im equmeulating.
Carl..
cudaken wrote: Spell Check cannot help stupid.
Spell Check cannot help stupid.
You are not stupid! But spell check can't help if you don't use it. Congrats on your growing steam roster! 'Bout time you started getting some 'real' (as in steam) locos. Real men run steam.
Nelson, do you have a link for the Kadde site.
As far as the Day Light Speical, I am tickled with it. Got to run it at K-10 Train today, track is 60' X 80'. Dragged 24 cars up a 1.5 % grade. Yep there was some spinning of the wheels but she hauled the load.
Ill fated Nigara on the other hand is another posting.
cudaken wrote: I would buy more but yet to figuer out how to doubled head them? Seems the front coupler is a fake, no pocket for a Kadee and is glued in. I have a total of 2.5 OZ in the Day Light and has helped alot! With the extra weight I sure it will pull 18 cars. They will be added Wensday and see what happen's. For only $79.99 I am pretty happy still with the cheap Bachman's. Have around 30 hours on the bench and neither one as derailed. Cuda Ken
I would buy more but yet to figuer out how to doubled head them? Seems the front coupler is a fake, no pocket for a Kadee and is glued in.
I have a total of 2.5 OZ in the Day Light and has helped alot! With the extra weight I sure it will pull 18 cars. They will be added Wensday and see what happen's.
For only $79.99 I am pretty happy still with the cheap Bachman's. Have around 30 hours on the bench and neither one as derailed.
Ken I just checked Kadee's site for the GS4 coupler conversion, but they only show it for the tender. Installation in the pilot of plastic steam generally involves a good bit of filing to open up room for a coupler pocket, as they show with Rivarossi. If I remember correctly, the pilot on my Bachmann Northern isn't real stable -- it flexes.
If it won't pull, just go buy some more.
MU rulz. FEEL the power.
Tweet I added 1 OZ today to the Daylight speical. It has helped a lot, dragging 15 car now and there is more room for weight. It will still spin the wheels when I nail it so I should not be over loading the engine.
I might added .25 more and that will be it. I am not going to kill the GS-4's, if I can make it to 20 cars and spin the weels great. But I am not going to push it either. BL-2 will be used as a helper if needed.
Spell Check cannot help stupid. Yes Dan you are right, they are Niagara's not the other word I missed spelled.
As far as impressive (spell check) thank you and by most standreds still in the child like stage. My roster of engines will be getting better a long with my bench. Seems I am either getting real lucky at my new job or getting better at it. My store was Store of the Month, Added Value Store of the Month and I was Sales Person's of the month with $70,000.00 in sales. That is $300.00 plus I won $100.00 at a sales meeting today as well! OH, I forgot Kingsdowns Sales person and Kingsdown store of the month as well, so there is another $100.00. (Kingsdown is a vendor we sell for).
Sorry I am bragging, but been a great day all around. Just had to bost a little. Guessing there will be a few more engines on the board Wendesday.
cudaken wrote: All so have a Nigeria coming as well, hope to have this coming Wednesday.
All so have a Nigeria coming as well, hope to have this coming Wednesday.
A "Nigeria"? do you mean a "Niagara"?
either way, sounds like you're starting an impressive steam roster
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Hum, seems I have two now a 3rd on the way and 4th in layaway! Pick up another GS-4 this time a War Baby paint. All so have a Nigeria coming as well, hope to have this coming Wednesday.
Now for you Boradway fans, layway is a all so a Nigeria . It is the the one that does not have sound. Can't not tell you what I am getting for, but is under $210.00. Reason it is not here at the houes, seems I need at lese a 21.5 radius turn.
Till the new bench is ready I willl still have a 18" turn. But that may only take a few months.
Cuda Ken, happy again.
Okay, so now you have one REAL locomotive. You can check to see if adding a little weight will help enough to make it worth your while by just draping some weight on top of the engine and running it that way a little bit. Remember, you can't fit but so much weicht inside. Also, stick on golf club weights are easier to find than model weights locally, and the thin ones can sometimes even fit on the bottom of the engine. A good thing for trying the weights is a little piece of scap pantyhose and some BBs.
Unless an engine came with traction tires, or you have and know how to operate a mini lathe, you basically are out of luck. I really like traction tires, personally. I have never had electrical issues and I do not have derailments unless a track glitch develops. BLI and the later P2K stuff have two pairs of main engine drivers so you can have traction tires or not as you wish.
Oftentimes just wearing the "new" surface off drivers will help traction quite a bit. You will find with steam locomotives there are few genuine bargains. Stay away from older Bachmann, Lifelike, Tyco, and the Rivarossi with the pizza cutter wheels. They are NOT fixable. Mantua don't have the detail of some, but some of them may not be breakable, I am not sure.
Good luck. As a car tinkerer you will now get to hone your skills on itty bitty stuff, too.
Don Gibson wrote: BOWSER has a chassis Kit for the GS-4 that has weight + a bigger motor, so pulls more cars, but it's not for those that want to play trains - it's a kit.
BOWSER has a chassis Kit for the GS-4 that has weight + a bigger motor, so pulls more cars, but it's not for those that want to play trains - it's a kit.
That is what I did to my GS-4. The drive was terrible so I bought the Bowser kit. It took some time to assemble but I enjoyed building it. The pulling power is outstanding and best of all no "mailbox shuffle" with Bachmann Service. As Don says it is not for the RTR crowd but if you want a good quality drive it is the way to go.
Jim
SteamFreak wrote: I have two Plus series Bachmanns -- a K4 and a SF 4-8-4, and neither one is much of a puller. Adding weight doesn't do much for traction, and overheats the motor. They couldn't have used a slipperier metal for the wheels. However yours may be from their retooled basic line that use Mabuchi motors, which are more durable. If you try extra weight, do it a little at a time and make sure the engine stays balanced. - Nelson
It used to be if you added weight to Bachmann Steam the axles turnes inside the pressed-on wheels - rendering it useless. NOW if you add weight you can overheat the motor and render it useless Rubber tires add friction to the track until they break - or decompose - again, rendering the engine useless. There needs to be a CHANNEL cut into the metal wheel for the tire to stay aligned. Trying to run on a empty grooved metal wheel is guaranteed to lose traction.
Bachmann's SPECTRUM engines are more expensive with more detail, but have not been considered 'puller's, so those who want RTR can buy Brass - or wait for a higher priced Bachmann. Frankly, Broadway's future GS-4 looks more PROMISING. It won't be built for the toy market.