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Finaly made the jump to Steam! I love it. PLUS A QUSTION

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Posted by cudaken on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:43 AM

 Runner, thanks for the link for the J1E 4-6-4 Hudson. This one all so got my eye.

 

 Sound, well I am not crazy with the sound quality I have heard at K-10 trains bench. But I have a cheap DCC set up coming so what the heck.

 Thanks for all the help folks, I must say I am hooked. My Gs-4's are running better yet. Little tip, pull the center wheels on the tenders, they rub screw that hold the trucks on.

 

                Cuda Ken

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Posted by 1shado1 on Friday, December 8, 2006 9:55 PM

 Dave Vollmer wrote:
So, for an electric, is a 4-wheel pilot truck called 2 or 4?  I guess I'm confused.  A GG1 has two 4-wheeled pony trucks and two 6-wheeled drive trucks.  Does that make it a 2-C-C-2 or a 4-C-C-4?  Just want to be sure.  If I'm wrong, sorry for correcting you 1shado1!

 

What Nelson said.Big Smile [:D]  And no need to be sorry!  We learn by questioning things, right?  It's all good.Wink [;)]  And besides, I don't get to RIGHT that often, LOL!

 

Jeff

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, December 7, 2006 11:04 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

Well dang, I stand corrected!Blush [:I]

Sorry!Black Eye [B)]

Not a problem, Dave. But I think this may mean some N scale coal in your stocking. Mischief [:-,]

Interesting that they use a letter designation for drive wheels, e.g. A, B, C, intead of 1, 2, 3 (Breaks into Jackson 5 routine...) Whistling [:-^]

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, December 7, 2006 9:56 PM
 SteamFreak wrote:

 Dave Vollmer wrote:
So, for an electric, is a 4-wheel pilot truck called 2 or 4?  I guess I'm confused.  A GG1 has two 4-wheeled pony trucks and two 6-wheeled drive trucks.  Does that make it a 2-C-C-2 or a 4-C-C-4?  Just want to be sure.  If I'm wrong, sorry for correcting you 1shado1!

Dave,

From everything I've read, the electric loco system counts axles, not wheels, making a GG1 a 2-C-C-2. In fact it's described that way in my old Rivarossi GG1 instruction sheet, if that's to be trusted.

Nelson

Well dang, I stand corrected!Blush [:I]

Sorry!Black Eye [B)]

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, December 7, 2006 9:47 PM

 Dave Vollmer wrote:
So, for an electric, is a 4-wheel pilot truck called 2 or 4?  I guess I'm confused.  A GG1 has two 4-wheeled pony trucks and two 6-wheeled drive trucks.  Does that make it a 2-C-C-2 or a 4-C-C-4?  Just want to be sure.  If I'm wrong, sorry for correcting you 1shado1!

Dave,

From everything I've read, the electric loco system counts axles, not wheels, making a GG1 a 2-C-C-2. In fact it's described that way in my old Rivarossi GG1 instruction sheet, if that's to be trusted.

Nelson

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, December 7, 2006 9:41 PM
So, for an electric, is a 4-wheel pilot truck called 2 or 4?  I guess I'm confused.  A GG1 has two 4-wheeled pony trucks and two 6-wheeled drive trucks.  Does that make it a 2-C-C-2 or a 4-C-C-4?  Just want to be sure.  If I'm wrong, sorry for correcting you 1shado1!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by 1shado1 on Thursday, December 7, 2006 9:32 PM
 SteamFreak wrote:

I hope everyone realizes (despite my smilie-free post) that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek when I posted the eBay link.

However, a Whyte system designation for the GG1 might be a Pennsy modeler's best argument for running a Challenger. Wink [;)]

 Nelson

 I was wondering about that, lol!  As your post was smile  free, I wasn't sure how to respond.  A misunderstanding on my part.  Oh well.  Maybe I'll get it right next time!Big Smile [:D]

 

Jeff

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, December 7, 2006 4:20 PM

I hope everyone realizes (despite my smilie-free post) that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek when I posted the eBay link.

However, a Whyte system designation for the GG1 might be a Pennsy modeler's best argument for running a Challenger. Wink [;)]

 Nelson

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Posted by 1shado1 on Thursday, December 7, 2006 12:51 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:
 1shado1 wrote:
 SteamFreak wrote:
 1shado1 wrote:

FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.Big Smile [:D]

It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.

Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/

Actually, if memory serves, the GG1's wheel arrangement is CORRECTLY written as 2-C+C-2.  Electrics and diesels use a different system to designate wheel arrangement than steam locos use.  Steam locos use the 'Whyte' system.  I don't know the name of the system that diesels/electrics use.  In any event, a 4-6-6-4 is commonly known as a Challenger, a GG1 and 2-6-6-2 are not.  Don't believe everything you read on ebay.Big Smile [:D]

Jeff

A GG1 would be a 4-C-C-4. 

Pennsy classified its electrics according to the same system they used for steam.  In other words, a 4-6-0 was classified as a G class (like the G5sa), so a GG1 is two 4-6-0s (Gs) back-to-back.  The same is true for the DD1 jack-shaft driven electrics which were 4-B-B-4, since a Pennsy 4-4-0 was classed D (like the D16sb #1223 at the RR Museum of PA).  It was considered two 4-4-0s back-to-back.  Pennsy 2-6-0s were classed F, so the 2-C-C-2 electrics Pennsy bought from the GN were called FF1s.

P5as were 4-6-4 (or 4-C-4).  The experimental electrics of the 1950s and the wildly-successful E-44s are notable exceptions to this standard.

 Thanks for the info, Dave. Big Smile [:D]  Perhaps I should have made myself more clear.  I was referring to the wheel arrangement as designated by the general standard practice, which would make the GG1 a 2-C+C-2, as I stated.  I was not referring to how a specific railroad (such as Pennsy) chooses to classify it's wheel arrangements using it's own proprietary system.

 Jeff

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 7, 2006 11:15 AM

http://trainworld.com/broadwayltd/

My advice: Go here, Get the J1e 4-6-4 Hudson.  For $50 more than you paid for your first you get amazing sounds and DCC preinstalled for when you convert (you will in time, trust me).  It runs on DC just fine.   You won't believe your ears and it looks great just sitting there and it pulls its fair share of the load.  You won't regret it.

 For the same price you can get an RSD-15 or SD-40 diesel and they sound and look great too.

 

 

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, December 7, 2006 10:08 AM
 1shado1 wrote:
 SteamFreak wrote:
 1shado1 wrote:

FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.Big Smile [:D]

It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.

Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/

Actually, if memory serves, the GG1's wheel arrangement is CORRECTLY written as 2-C+C-2.  Electrics and diesels use a different system to designate wheel arrangement than steam locos use.  Steam locos use the 'Whyte' system.  I don't know the name of the system that diesels/electrics use.  In any event, a 4-6-6-4 is commonly known as a Challenger, a GG1 and 2-6-6-2 are not.  Don't believe everything you read on ebay.Big Smile [:D]

Jeff

A GG1 would be a 4-C-C-4. 

Pennsy classified its electrics according to the same system they used for steam.  In other words, a 4-6-0 was classified as a G class (like the G5sa), so a GG1 is two 4-6-0s (Gs) back-to-back.  The same is true for the DD1 jack-shaft driven electrics which were 4-B-B-4, since a Pennsy 4-4-0 was classed D (like the D16sb #1223 at the RR Museum of PA).  It was considered two 4-4-0s back-to-back.  Pennsy 2-6-0s were classed F, so the 2-C-C-2 electrics Pennsy bought from the GN were called FF1s.

P5as were 4-6-4 (or 4-C-4).  The experimental electrics of the 1950s and the wildly-successful E-44s are notable exceptions to this standard.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Hoople on Thursday, December 7, 2006 9:54 AM
Welcome to where people run real trains!
(I confess, I ran a diesel once, but I drove it off my interchange track and it met the floor with a nice headbutt.)
Your roster of locos is already bigger than mine! (Well, you do have a job... and I am only 12....)
I have a
Bachmann GS4 Daylight #4449
Bachmann Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountain
Thats it. (except that F7... That DIED...)
Mark
Mark.
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Posted by 1shado1 on Thursday, December 7, 2006 6:30 AM
 SteamFreak wrote:
 1shado1 wrote:

FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.Big Smile [:D]

It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.

Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/

Actually, if memory serves, the GG1's wheel arrangement is CORRECTLY written as 2-C+C-2.  Electrics and diesels use a different system to designate wheel arrangement than steam locos use.  Steam locos use the 'Whyte' system.  I don't know the name of the system that diesels/electrics use.  In any event, a 4-6-6-4 is commonly known as a Challenger, a GG1 and 2-6-6-2 are not.  Don't believe everything you read on ebay.Big Smile [:D]

Jeff

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, December 7, 2006 1:28 AM
 1shado1 wrote:

FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.Big Smile [:D]

It ain't necessarily so, Jeff. A 4-6-6-4 can also be a GG1! Check this one out.

Ken, Kadee's site is very straightforward: http://www.kadee.com/

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Posted by 1shado1 on Thursday, December 7, 2006 12:59 AM
 ac4400fan wrote:

Congradulations Ken! Now Your in Trobble! Your Hooked haha, I did the same about 6 months ago ,Picked up my 1st steam engine 2-6-6-2 Challenger now just picked up a 4-6-6-4 , so im getting hooked as well ,not to menchen, i started with 3 engines ,now ,im looking and need to get a cabinet built for the many im equmeulating.

Carl..

FWIW, the 4-6-6-4 is a Challenger, not the 2-6-6-2.Big Smile [:D]

 

Jeff

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Posted by 1shado1 on Thursday, December 7, 2006 12:54 AM
 cudaken wrote:

 Spell Check cannot help stupid.

 

You are not stupid!  But spell check can't help if you don't use it.Big Smile [:D]  Congrats on your growing steam roster!  'Bout time you started getting some 'real' (as in steam) locos.Big Smile [:D]   Real men run steam.

 

Jeff

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Posted by cudaken on Wednesday, December 6, 2006 11:37 PM

 Nelson, do you have a link for the Kadde site.

 As far as the Day Light Speical, I am tickled with it. Got to run it at K-10 Train today, track is 60' X 80'. Dragged 24 cars up a 1.5 % grade. Yep there was some spinning of the wheels but she hauled the load.

 Ill fated Nigara on the other hand is another posting.

              Cuda Ken 

I hate Rust

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Posted by SteamFreak on Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:06 PM
 cudaken wrote:

 I would buy more but yet to figuer out how to doubled head them? Seems the front coupler is a fake, no pocket for a Kadee and is glued in.

 I have a total of 2.5 OZ in the Day Light and has helped alot!  With the extra weight I sure it will pull 18 cars. They will be added Wensday and see what happen's.

 For only $79.99 I am pretty happy still with the cheap Bachman's. Have around 30 hours on the bench and neither one as derailed.

 

            Cuda Ken 

Ken I just checked Kadee's site for the GS4 coupler conversion, but they only show it for the tender. Installation in the pilot of plastic steam generally involves a good bit of filing to open up room for a coupler pocket, as they show with Rivarossi. If I remember correctly, the pilot on my Bachmann Northern isn't real stable -- it flexes.

Nelson

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Posted by cudaken on Tuesday, December 5, 2006 9:45 PM

 I would buy more but yet to figuer out how to doubled head them? Seems the front coupler is a fake, no pocket for a Kadee and is glued in.

 I have a total of 2.5 OZ in the Day Light and has helped alot!  With the extra weight I sure it will pull 18 cars. They will be added Wensday and see what happen's.

 For only $79.99 I am pretty happy still with the cheap Bachman's. Have around 30 hours on the bench and neither one as derailed.

 

            Cuda Ken 

I hate Rust

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Posted by jeffers_mz on Tuesday, December 5, 2006 2:35 AM

If it won't pull, just go buy some more.

 

MU rulz. FEEL the power.

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Posted by cudaken on Tuesday, December 5, 2006 1:09 AM

 Tweet I added 1 OZ today to the Daylight speical. It has helped a lot, dragging 15 car now and there is more room for weight. It will still spin the wheels when I nail it so I should not be over loading the engine.

 I might added .25 more and that will be it. I am not going to kill the GS-4's, if I can make it to 20 cars and spin the weels great.  But I am not going to push it either. BL-2 will be used as a helper if needed.

 

 

             Cuda Ken

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 4, 2006 1:09 AM
I don't think adding weight will void your warranty, especially if you can remove it if a problem arises & you have to snd it back.  For the motor's sake, I would check the stall current of the loco & then check the amp draw with the added weight.  To check the stall current you need an amp meter connected between the rail pickups and the motor, then  apply enough downward pressure to  make the drivers & motor stall, then take the reading on the amp meter.  After adding the weight open the throttle up to about maximum speed and see what the amp draw is.  It should be less than the stall current.  It is highly recommended to check the stall current on a loco when installing a DCC decoder to make sure the decoder can handle the load the loco's electric motor needs & not overwork or overheat the decoder.  Some of my older Athearn diesels pull over 2 amps when stalled, compared to 1 amp on a LL P2K or Kato.  Tweet.
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Posted by cudaken on Monday, December 4, 2006 12:02 AM

 Spell Check cannot help stupid. Yes Dan you are right, they are Niagara's not the other word I missed spelled.

 As far as impressive (spell check) thank you and by most standreds still in the child like stage. My roster of engines will be getting better a long with my bench.  Seems I am either getting real lucky at my new job or getting better at it. My store was Store of the Month, Added Value Store of the Month and I was Sales Person's of the month with $70,000.00 in sales. That is $300.00 plus I won $100.00 at a sales meeting today as well! Smile [:)] OH, I forgot Kingsdowns Sales person and Kingsdown store of the month as well, so there is another $100.00. (Kingsdown is a vendor we sell for).

 Sorry I am bragging, but been a great day all around. Just had to bost a little.  Guessing there will be a few more engines on the board Wendesday.

 

          Cuda Ken

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Posted by NeO6874 on Sunday, December 3, 2006 12:15 AM
 cudaken wrote:

All so have a Nigeria coming as well, hope to have this coming Wednesday.

 

A "Nigeria"?  do you mean a "Niagara"?

 

either way, sounds like you're starting an impressive steam roster Approve [^]

 

 

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by cudaken on Sunday, December 3, 2006 12:06 AM

 Hum, seems I have two now a 3rd on the way and 4th in layaway! Pick up another GS-4 this time a War Baby paint. All so have a Nigeria coming as well, hope to have this coming Wednesday.

 Now for you Boradway fans, layway is a all so a Nigeria . It is the the one that does not have sound. Can't not tell you what I am getting for, but is under $210.00. Reason it is not here at the houes, seems I need at lese a 21.5 radius turn. 

 Till the new bench is ready I willl still have a 18" turn. But that may only take a few months.

       Cuda Ken, happy again.

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Posted by Virginian on Friday, December 1, 2006 8:21 AM

Okay, so now you have one REAL locomotive.  You can check to see if adding a little weight will help enough to make it worth your while by just draping some weight on top of the engine and running it that way a little bit.  Remember, you can't fit but so much weicht inside.  Also, stick on golf club weights are easier to find than model weights locally, and the thin ones can sometimes even fit on the bottom of the engine.  A good thing for trying the weights is a little piece of scap pantyhose and some BBs.

Unless an engine came with traction tires, or you have and know how to operate a mini lathe, you basically are out of luck.  I really like traction tires, personally.  I have never had electrical issues and I do not have derailments unless a track glitch develops.  BLI and the later P2K stuff have two pairs of main engine drivers so you can have traction tires or not as you wish.

Oftentimes just wearing the "new" surface off drivers will help traction quite a bit.  You will find with steam locomotives there are few genuine bargains.  Stay away from older Bachmann, Lifelike, Tyco, and the Rivarossi with the pizza cutter wheels.  They are NOT fixable.  Mantua don't have the detail of some, but some of them may not be breakable, I am not sure.

Good luck.  As a car tinkerer you will now get to hone your skills on itty bitty stuff, too.

What could have happened.... did.
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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, December 1, 2006 7:43 AM

 Don Gibson wrote:

BOWSER  has a chassis Kit for the GS-4 that has weight + a bigger motor, so pulls more cars, but it's not for those that want to play trains - it's a kit.

That is what I did to my GS-4. The drive was terrible so I bought the Bowser kit. It took some time to assemble but I enjoyed building it. The pulling power is outstanding and best of all no "mailbox shuffle" with Bachmann Service.  As Don says it is not for the RTR crowd but if you want a good quality drive it is the way to go.

 

Jim

Jim

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Posted by EL PARRo on Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:45 PM
Personally, I don't recommend traction trires. I find that they reduce overall electrical pickup, they get dirtier faster than normal metal wheels, and they derail more easily.
huh?
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Posted by Don Gibson on Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:37 PM

 SteamFreak wrote:
I have two Plus series Bachmanns -- a K4 and a SF 4-8-4, and neither one is much of a puller. Adding weight doesn't do much for traction, and overheats the motor. They couldn't have used a slipperier metal for the wheels. However yours may be from  their retooled basic line that use Mabuchi motors, which are more durable. If you try extra weight, do it a little at a time and make sure the engine stays balanced. -  Nelson

It used to be if you added weight to Bachmann Steam the axles turnes inside the pressed-on wheels - rendering it useless.  NOW if you add weight you can overheat the motor and  render it useless Rubber tires add friction to the track until they break - or decompose - again, rendering the engine useless. There needs to be  a CHANNEL cut into the metal wheel for the tire to stay aligned. Trying to run on a empty grooved metal wheel is guaranteed to lose traction.

BOWSER  has a chassis Kit for the GS-4 that has weight + a bigger motor, so pulls more cars, but it's not for those that want to play trains - it's a kit.

Bachmann's SPECTRUM engines are more expensive with more detail, but have not been considered 'puller's, so those who want RTR can buy Brass - or wait for a higher priced Bachmann.  Frankly, Broadway's future GS-4 looks more PROMISING. It won't be built for the toy market.

 

 

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################

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