richhotrain Wow, the little thread that could. This old thread will never die. Too funny.
Wow, the little thread that could.
This old thread will never die. Too funny.
Just curious, but has ANYBODY noticed that this thread dates back to 2006??? Comon' guys snap out of the anesthesia.
This is the second post, in as many weeks that has been dated from years earlier and popped up on the forum again - this seems to have occurred right after the website overhaul ...what gives, moderator?
Moderators are quick on the trigger when wanting to lock a discussion disliked, so how bout' locking this one out, since its 4 YEARS OLD -this is old news...trash it.
HeritageFleet1
Alton Junction
I don't trust MTH and I don't buy MTH and nothing will change in that respect. I am sure he had HIS agenda in pursuing it and I also have a feeling it will turn out to be a "tempest in a teapot" when all the dust settles.
Bob
Railcon44 I'm a Milw Road guy and and you know what? I quit buy from all of them. I got 43 engines most are Milw road except the Steamers. I have decided that I'm not buying anymore from none of them until they can build a nice Milw road streamer like the Milw 261. I wish Mth would build the 261. I like Mth i think they do a very good job with there steamers, Their just not making anything i want.
On the other hand, MTH did build the "Little Joe" EF-3 / EP-3 locomotive for the Milwaukee. If I had all the time, money and space I wanted, I'd love to have some electrified trackage so I could run one of these, but I don't, so I personally won't be buying one.
I give them a lot of points for making this engine. First, I suspect most manufacturers would do the "advance order" thing, and, finding little market, would drop the project and refund the money. MTH has built them, and I hope a lot of people buy them and get to enjoy a really unique engine. If this venture is a success for MTH, they may make some more "niche market" engines, which would be a good thing for the hobby.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
If I lock the topic and it fades to the second or third page, the person who resurrected it won't know what came of his comment if he is unable to return for a couple of days. There is no rush....I posted my caveat early...let's let this fade naturally or let people add new thoughts as they wish...it's no big deal either way. It would be different if it had been contentious and threats to lock it were left as part of the record, but this thread dropped off naturally once, and I feel it should be given a chance to do so once more.
-Crandell
I'm a Milw Road guy and and you know what? I quit buy from all of them. I got 43 engines most are Milw road except the Steamers. I have decided that I'm not buying anymore from none of them until they can build a nice Milw road streamer like the Milw 261. I wish Mth would build the 261. I like Mth i think they do a very good job with there steamers, Their just not making anything i want.
jasperofzeal selector This is a highly stale-dated thread. Old news. -Crandell So why not lock the thread and make it "read only"...help keep things fresh. Same goes for other threads that are older than a year (maybe)...
selector This is a highly stale-dated thread. Old news. -Crandell
This is a highly stale-dated thread. Old news.
So why not lock the thread and make it "read only"...help keep things fresh. Same goes for other threads that are older than a year (maybe)...
OK--so why is this thin still up and going?
There was nothng to this that was new so----lock it---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
IRONROOSTER jasperofzeal selector This is a highly stale-dated thread. Old news. -Crandell So why not lock the thread and make it "read only"...help keep things fresh. Same goes for other threads that are older than a year (maybe)... Sometimes there is a genuine update that's interesting. Enjoy Paul
Sometimes there is a genuine update that's interesting.
Enjoy
Paul
With all due respect to the author of the post that resurrected this thread, this update is not interesting and adds nothing to the previous discussion back in 2006. I, too, am surprised that Crandell didn't lock it.
Rich
jasperofzealselectorThis is a highly stale-dated thread. Old news.-Crandell So why not lock the thread and make it "read only"...help keep things fresh. Same goes for other threads that are older than a year (maybe)...
selectorThis is a highly stale-dated thread. Old news.-Crandell
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
So old its pages is yellow and moldy from age..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Whew! thanks Crandell I thought I was having a flashback...........lol
Okay,while I can see paying Royalties to the 5000 Pound Canary That Ate The Cat for items that are Union PacificProper,it doesn't make sense for manufacturers to have to pay UP royalties for the lost roads that were mergered into the UP:MP/T&P;CNW/M&StL/CGW;WP;MKT;D&RGW;SP/T&NO/SSW!!!
"Never Ever Say'Never Ever'!!!"-Magruber.
Joe, BlueSky.
As I infer above did he really win or did UP's new boss decide to go ahead, do the right thing and concentrate on cleaning up UP's problems?
Again, I don't wish to take away from Mr. Wolf's efforts but realistically if Davidson were still at UP's helm and decided to "dig in" and battle out the trademark issue it could have easily been tied up in court for several years.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
andrechapelon wrote: I wonder if those who consider Mike Wolf to be the hobby's very own Antichrist will now modify their opinion somewhat.
I wonder if those who consider Mike Wolf to be the hobby's very own Antichrist will now modify their opinion somewhat.
Nope.
Sorry, but I just can't see Mike Wolf as "Mr. Philanthropy" on behalf of all model train manufacturers. This feel-good story is, frankly, too good to be true.
His track record and his litigation record makes me believe there's a hidden agenda here. I challenge anyone to make me think otherwise.
Waiting for the other shoe,
PZ
O.K,
So now this makes more sense. A change in UP's management!
It seemed strange that a billion dollar coorperation that has often defied government agencies would have "buckled under" to a comparitively small potatoes maufacturer like MTH. Apparently the new head is concerned about positve Public Relations and trying to clean up some of the problems that Union Pacific has been plagued with. We can't expect all of UP's problems to vaporize, but it's good to see that the top brass is making the effort. Mr. Davidson won't likely be missed much.
As for Mr. Wolf, it is still a good thing that this sitution is benefiting him. Mainly for the simple reason, as stated before, that he'll hopefully get smart and quickly work to mend that burned bridge between him and the smaller scale arenas. But he should start soon before this licensing victory becomes old news and everything returns to "business as usual".
Peace
Right about the CEO change at UP, drgw/wpfan. It didn't really take long for Jim Young to turn this situation around and get back to his bigger job. By the way, he even showed up in person at the recent annual convention of the UP Historical Society.
Davidson really left a mess behind (not to mention a few small problems like a 2004 operating ratio near 90%, etc.). In settling this trademark/royalty issue, Mike Wolf gets some of the credit, but it really took a responsible adult on the other side. If Union Pacific had chosen to do so (however misguidedly), it could have litigated MTH and the rest of the model and railfan industry to death for years to come. I'm very glad that, with new leadership, Uncle Pete is now undoing the p.r. damage and focusing completely on getting the rail business back in order.
Who knows? Next, UP might become a cooperative operator for Amtrak. THAT would be even bigger and, based on Mr. Young's performance so far, really could happen. It can be downright amazing what occurs when the right guy's in charge.
SpaceMouse wrote:Maybe it's just me, but something just doesn't smell right. I admit I don't know any of the details, but this smells of spin doctoring. Like maybe UP was looking for a way out of the bad PR and Mike gets the benefit of being in the right place at the right time. Anyone else picking up that scent? We are talking about the guy that refused to work with the NMRA on DCC and wants nothing to do with any other manufacturer.
Maybe it's just me, but something just doesn't smell right.
I admit I don't know any of the details, but this smells of spin doctoring. Like maybe UP was looking for a way out of the bad PR and Mike gets the benefit of being in the right place at the right time.
Anyone else picking up that scent?
We are talking about the guy that refused to work with the NMRA on DCC and wants nothing to do with any other manufacturer.
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
My
Space mouse it does smell a bit. I just paid a ton of money to get some units with updated to Back EMF thanks to the ????? from MTH. This had effected us for longer than the UP problem. It is a GLOBAL problem in the hobby not just the few who model UP. Well one tree has been cut but the balance of the trees are still hiding the forest from view.
An Atta boy for this is OK but remember that all tthe Atta-boys get wiped out by one Ah-S___T.
selector wrote: cefinkjr wrote: ...As I indicated in an earlier post, I think we all owe Mike Wolf a "Thank You" for negotiating this licensing contract regardless of what else he might have done.... Chuck It would appear that he was not so much championing the rest of us, but doing what he had been known to do consistently and aggressively....serve his-self. He lowers prices, the rest of us can buy maybe a few more of whatever. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
cefinkjr wrote: ...As I indicated in an earlier post, I think we all owe Mike Wolf a "Thank You" for negotiating this licensing contract regardless of what else he might have done.... Chuck
...As I indicated in an earlier post, I think we all owe Mike Wolf a "Thank You" for negotiating this licensing contract regardless of what else he might have done.... Chuck
It would appear that he was not so much championing the rest of us, but doing what he had been known to do consistently and aggressively....serve his-self. He lowers prices, the rest of us can buy maybe a few more of whatever.
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
Selector,
You hit a homerun with that statement.
But consider that while this action benefited him, he's not stupid. He had to realize that this would benefit the entire model/toy train industry and as a big side benefit make him the so called "hero". Those of you who insist that we should thank Mike ........ok,
"Good going Mr. Wolf "...........
So now what would you like next? THE SAME OLD reputations haven't gone anywhere, have they?
As I stated earlier, he could extend an olive branch to HO and N modelers by deciding to take that "first step" and hook-up with the NMRA. Another step that he can easily take, and I think he likely will, would be to rephrase the wording in his advertisements. Some have stated on other threads that the reactions to the advertisements were "petty". But as Paul3 stated, that style of advertising is not typically seen in our hobby.
The past lawsuits and the advertisement flame fest helped further deteriorate MTH's image with many of us. As mentioned above, this thread is about the licensing victory but whether we like it or not MTH has had a PR/Image problem and that in itself will continue to pop up on MTH related topics until we see the changes. That's reality. Positive changes are very possible. The ball is in Mike's court and has been for a while.
I'm glad for this situation but I hope the bigger issue with MTH is resolved as well in the future so that MTH bashing becomes a thing of the past. Well, nuff said from me unless you guys ask me something. I'm too busy looking forward to getting Lok Sound systems installed in my HO diesels. 10-4, friends
This topic has turned from comments on the UP/MRI licensing contract negotiated by MTH to an exercise in pillorying MTH for earlier offenses. I'm not trying to defend MTH but I think we ought to be keeping an open mind. Mine is completely open since, having no practical use for any MTH product, I probably skipped over the nasty ad you folks are talking about and I have only been slightly aware of MTH's other business practices. As I indicated in an earlier post, I think we all owe Mike Wolf a "Thank You" for negotiating this licensing contract regardless of what else he might have done. I kind of doubt that other MRR manufacturers are going to say "No, we don't like Mike Wolf so we'll insist on paying UP 3% of our gross" and I'm sure that none of you are going to insist on paying more for UP-lettered models..
On the other hand, does anyone else remember when UPS refused to permit models of its custom built, distinctively shaped delivery trucks to be decorated as UPS delivery trucks? They could be painted brown but the manufacturer could not letter them for UPS or include UPS decals in the package. That must have been 10 years ago and UPS models may now be "legal" but I still avoid doing business with UPS whenever I can. My point here -- for UP, MTH, UPS, and anyone else contemplating similar agressive protection of their copyrights -- is that you really ought to consider the negative publicity you're going to generate. It takes an awfully long time as a corporate "good citizen" to overcome a moment's bad publicity.
Chuck
ChuckAllen, TX
Paul,
I have MRR issues dating back to 1979. I must admit that I can't recall seeing manufacturers slamming each other in those issues ( except for a few light jabs from MRC against the other powerpack manufacturers.)
I agree with you that competition over the years has been cordial in our scales. However, my point was simply that MTH had already soured so many of us with its harsh reputation. So the reaction was much, much hotter than it would have been if, let's say, Athearn had taken that same heavy handed shot at Life Like's P2K line. Yes, we would have been upset, many of us would have likely chewed out Athearn with e-mails and letters. But Athearn would have likely issued an apology for that action. Most of us would have forgiven Athearn and forgotten about it in the months that followed.
What an ideal situation it would have been had MTH & Lionel cooperated as you mention. Of course, in reading the history, Mike Wolf's roots were in Lionel. The battles that ensued seemed to resemble a soap opera story line of a step son battling with the "well known" family he left in his younger years. Then, throw in the battles with his former family's competitors as well. Even as his previous family members leave or grow old, the business battles continue and become a normal way of life by the time he's 30. He's determined that he would challenge any scenario that he perceives as a threat to his business and does not hesistate to be ruthless.
Unfortunately he's too ignorant, arrogant, or oblivious to the fact that some of his actions are on the "OVERKILL" side. As a result this costs him quite a bit as far as potential customers in the new market that he's trying to enter. Though many of his products feature quality construction, his reputation has still suffered a great deal.
I know................. it's simplistic but it seems to be the case here.