Insulated or all metal frogs????

[Anonymous]

In the October issue of MR they made the statement in the feature Track Buyers Guide "veteran modelers preferred all metal frog turnouts" can someone
out there tell me why?????

[AltonFan]

Because metal frogs conduct electricity, and some locomotives tended to stall on long insulated frogs.

I built a small N scale layout in the early 1980s, and I used Atlas #6 switches (which have a long plastic frog) for a crossover. At the time, N scale steam engines often had electrical pickup from one or two drivers, and a lot of diesels had positive pickup on one truck, and negative on the other. Unless the engines were moving fast enough to slide over the frogs, they would stall.

It was very frustrating, and I vowed never again to use insulated frogs.

The downside to using electrically "live" frogs is that they can be complicated to wire, and if one is not careful, one can create a short circuit.

[Anonymous]

I think with longer wheel bases, the frog stall is not as prevalent as in yesteryear. My layout and engines tend to stall on the little stretch of rail between the points and the frog. To avoid stalls, run a jumper wire to those sections, which you CAN'T do with metal frogs, as they will short circut. So, I prefer the plastic, insulated frogs.

I'm not in DCC, but I understand they are essential for that. The one advantage in metal frogs is power routing, although both electro and insulfrog Peco turnouts in N are power routed, for some reason or anohter.....

[dehusman]

Metal frogs aren't required for DCC, but do have the benefits if powered.

Actually the question is worded a little unclearly. Atlas code 83 Mark 3 switches have frogs that are metal AND insulated. If you want to power them you have to connect a wire to the frog and a switch connected to the throwing mechanism.

[IRONROOSTER]

Just to add a couple of thoughts to the info above.

First, not all locos have electrical pickup from all wheels (especially cheaper ones). When the pickup wheel is on the insulated part of the turnout the loco stalls. If the insulated part is long enough, you can have the problem even if two wheels are picking up electricity.

Second, wiring an all metal frog is simplfied if you insulate both rails of both diverging tracks and feed the power to the approach track. This enables the power routing referred to, that is the power is carried through the switch points to the frog. It does mean extra wire connections to the track beyond the turnout. Note that this is not always required, but it never hurts. Also, adding the extra feeder wires will help avoid the voltage drop problem that can occur with every joint you have between a piece of track and the power supply.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I think the author ment to say " I prefer all metal frog turnouts". He didn't poll me. With decent modern all wheel pickup locos it's just one more thing to fix and repair and goes against KISS. I use plastic frog with dcc and dc with Atlas, Athearns, and Walthers locos. They never ever stall in TO due to frogs. With old toy single truck pickup locos they always stall in Plastic TO unless they are going 100 MPH. If I run them anymore they are multied to a good loco and it's no problem, the good one drags them through. The points are the biggest stall problem and can be cleaned or jumpered. Now, just one more point, I have some older toy type stream locos and they derail in TO more than they stall or make it. So that's how I feel. FRED .

[Anonymous]

KISS = Keep it simple stupid. I used to get so frusterated at some of the older units with electro pick up on one truck. Not anymore. All units are required to have flywheels, wheels pickup and deliver electricty and that the tender contributes as well. This is best practice on my collection. I also MU switchers so if one should hesitate on a frog the other will "kick" it thru.

I prefer metal frogs and will run a wire to them. However I do have a few plastic frogs infecting my system and I try to keep em out of really critical track such as a short stub track where speed damage may occur.

I have a feeling that someday the entire train will contribute to electical pickup. I dont know how or when, but with the advent of mooing and squealing cattle and hog cars; one can jerk the throttle too much and produce a sudden burst of protest. (A bit of fantasy but is it possible?)

Good Luck

As always, clean track, clean wheels. Too much oil collects dirt.

Lee

[Anonymous]

A note on oil and Athearn's, if you oil them (the trucks) they quit running. FRED

[wp8thsub]

Even if stalling on dead frogs isn't much of an issue anymore with all-wheel pickup, I still prefer all-metal frogs. Metal is more durable and won't wear as readily. Worn plastic frogs with blunted frog points can lead to rough operation. If metal frogs get worn, they can be re-filled with solder and filed back to a like-new shape.

Note that metal doesn't equal electrically live (as with Atlas). One friend has gapped the frogs on his handlaid turnouts so the turnouts electrically function like plastic frog turnouts, but still have the metal frogs. Some other local modelers have gapped the metal frogs on commercial turnouts like Shinohara for the same reasons.

[preceng]

If you are just staring out, and in the KISS spirit, insulated frogs are fine. Just be careful to buy only locos with all wheel pickups.