Hello everyone... I have a train dilemma...

[Anonymous]

I am an avid miniatures wargamer, playing many genres including WWII in 20mm scale. I am a hardcore terrain builder, not unlike most model railroaders...

At any rate, I want to build a game table for gaming conventions that includes a railway, possibly as an objective, set in WWII Europe on or around 1943-44.
I wonder if any of you Train afficcianados could point me to HO scale train sets (cars, engines, or even entire trains) that would've been found in the period mentioned above? Not so much train sets that were made in '44, but current models of real trains from WWII Europe...

I have searched the net and come up empty, or I found something and didn't know due to my lack of knowledge regarding all things trains...

Thanks in advance for any information, suppliers, dealers, freinds, etc. that could help me out...

The Chaptermaster

[Anonymous]

I hope this helps. The Bachman Spectrum 2-10 Deacapod would be correct for WW II Europe. get the painted unlettered version. A model of the English Flying Scottsman has that Europeon look if painted black. 36' or 40' boxcars or stockcars might do for Europeon types. flatcars some model companies offer the German Krupp railway gun in HO scale. Keep in mind that German rail was being strafed bombed sabotaged day and night by allied forces. so it might be a good idea to find junk or broken steamers for track side wrecks.remember broken track bombed out building ect. The allies namely the US brought their own rail equipment with them so small to medium sized American equipment along with repaired Europeon would be correct for the Allied forces .

[AltonFan]

You might want to look at the Walther's HO catalog, which contains a large number of European prototype equipment. You might also look at products offered by Marklin.

www.walthers.com

[ndbprr]

also check out Triang Hornby as they offer european equipment also.

[Anonymous]

Companies like Marklin, Piko, Bachmann Lilliput and others that I can't think of off the top of my head right now make German trains that could have run during WWII. They can get pricey, though.

If you want to get something cheaper, here's an idea. Model Power makes a 2-6-0 that is actually a German Class 24 steam locmotive that has a North American style tender with it and is available in several US roadnames. They are a lower quality engine, but with a new paint job and some minor modifications, it could look good as a German locomotive (like it's supposed to).

[Anonymous]

I suspect that you might really be interested in the "Anzio" or the "Karl" rail gun. I dont know of any offered in HO, however I am preparing a parts list to build a military railgun based on the "Anzio Annie" now on display at the Aberdeen Ordinance Museum in Aberdeen, Maryland

The Germans used Armoured Trains to transport thier generals and commands. They simply used Boxcars to haul troops with "Low Side" gondolas equipped with a Flack gun on each end with rifle men in between.

The Steam engines used had extensive armour. Almost as much as one could put on. However it was a favorite target of US and Briti***atical Airforces using Hurricanes, Typhoons etc. There is almost a primitive instinct to peel off and dive down onto a running steam troop train to blow the engine up. It was very overriding.

One may look back into history and learn that Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee was the first to use such trains in wartime.

I hope this helps.

Lee

[Anonymous]

Try Fleischmann for a large range of German steamers in "Epoch 2" liveries (this is the time period that you are interested in). You might also want to take a look at www.kittlehobby.com - look under the "Lima" link on the page for item number 149985, which consists of a WW2 German diesel loco, a hefty railway gun, a crew coach and 3 flatcars. This should be ideal! Just be quick as Lima are currently facing an uncertain future due to financial problems.

[Anonymous]

roco also makes some pretty nifty german steamers... now if you can afford something of a much higher level (high $1000's that is) try this:

http://www.reynaulds.com/micrometakit/newmicrometakit1.html

(those are really amazing!)

[Anonymous]

Well, I must say I'm delighted with the wealth of info you guys have heaped upon me. Thanks! [:D]

I am familiar with the German army trains, the monstrous rail guns, etc. I have found them already but they aren't what I had in mind. Thanks for the tips though!

The model kits (tanks, trucks, etc.) that are used with the 20mm miniatures are 1/72 scale, of which HO is the closest in the train scales. My basic layout won't need more than an Engine and a handful of cars.
The game table will be 4' x 8' with two opposing large-ish rises (non-mountainous) on either short board edge, and a valley (chasm) in between, probably a river at the bottom. The tracks will enter from the right side of one 4' edge, cross the chasm via a bridge, and exit in a curve to the left, about 6" from the opposite 4' edge.

I thought I could make an 'impromptu' German checkpoint at the exiting side of the bridge with a couple of sandbag MMG pits and the opposing force (probably US, maybe Russian) assault through the woods from the train-entering side.
I'm thinking that maybe the Germans are ambushing supply trains and the US forces are trying to drive them out. Obviously a completely 'what-if' scenario...
I had been thinking that maybe a 'local' train line had been commandeered for military use...

Thanks again for all the great tips and the help offered. I'm liking the sound of the Lima and Roco suggestions. I will have to investigate them further for sure!

Regards,
The Chaptermaster

[Anonymous]

One thing that was not mentioned about the Walthers catalog is that most of the European models are (or at least were) classified into eras (Era I, II, III, IV, and V). I don't remember the divisions exactly, but the Walthers book does mention the time period covered by each era. All you have to figure out which era you want, and select only models that are listed from that era.

Josh Ziegler
Spokane, WA

[Anonymous]

The era system is still in use, sometime's they're called epochs but it's the same thing. I'm not sure about the suggestion that you use a model of "Flying Scotsman" painted black - this would look nothing like a European steamer as British models are to 4mm/1ft OO scale rather than the 3.5mm/1ft HO scale that the rest of the world uses (the track gauge is the same however, though there are people who handlay track and modify their stock to the correct gauge - should be 18.83mm rather than 16.5mm). Triang Hornby are now called simply Hornby, and they only offer British-outline models.

[ndbprr]

It just dawned on me one of the great sources of German equipment ina larger scale would be LGB in 1:20 or 27 scale. Lots of German equipment there.

[StillGrande]

Since you don't need them to run, a cheaper source for German WW2 era locomotives is a plastic models. I have a catalog that was sent to me a few months ago around here somewhere and the whole back page was WW2 era locos in HO scale (if I find it, I will let you know). Some were snap together models which would work for wargaming. Railcars are another issue, but if you check some of the plastic model websites, they may have some railcars to go with them that will be a little bit cheaper than the model railroad ones available.
I have been looking at train shows for some cheap Euro cars, but the ones I have found have not been worth it to aquire just for the few times I will use them in a game.

[Anonymous]

Hmm, are you in south Florida, recently moved from Alaska? I know of a miniatures enthusiast now painting up his WW2 armies, I think 20mm also. if not, I'll have to talk to him this Friday (miniatures/board game night). He might be interested in doing something similar, and I have HO (Atlas) track I can give him (since I'm turning N-scale :) ).

No running train? No Von Ryan's Express scenario? :D


Glen

Dragon's Lair Games
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by StillGrande

Since you don't need them to run, a cheaper source for German WW2 era locomotives is plastic models.

Hi, Chaptermaster
If you don't need them to run, I know for sure that Revell and Monogram produced some (static) plastic models of steam locomotives. You could also check out some other manufacturers of plastic models (Esci, Airfix,...) which are mainly known by their models of aircraft, but also produce automobiles, soldiers, trucks, ships, because it seems that the molds for these loco models (just like among manufacturers of "electric" model trains) are going from one company to another.
Good luck,
Oliver