around the room HO layout

[Anonymous]

Greetings all,
I hope I am in the right place to ask questions about the around the room layout I am building.
I need to know if I need more power than the standard power pack unit that came with the Lifelike HO train set to go around the 20 x 20 room.
If so, suggestions of what type, how much power, etc. etc. would be appreciated.
Thanks
sharpe

[Anonymous]

With a 14 gauge copper bus (two wires) and leads to the track every 6 or so feet it will work as well as it does now. MRC makes great aftermarket power packs. FRED.

[Anonymous]

flee307 hit it on the head. The power should be enough for a few locomotives as long as you install feeder wires every several feet.

[BR60103]

To amplify the previous replies, you don't need more power to run the same train around a bigger layout. The problem is resistance in the rails and the rail joiners. When you run to the far side of the layout, you put much more resistance in the circuit and the motor slows down. Adding a pair of thick wires with feeders to the track every so often reduces the amount of resistance in the circuit.
Of course, if you add more trains to this layout, you will need a bigger power pack.

[Anonymous]

OK Guys, I appreciate your comments, but I need more input. You say feeder wires, please explain in more detail. Sorry I am not up to speed on this but am just starting.
Are you saying add more terminal track pieces and run feeder wires to them from the same control unit?
Thanks again

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sharpe

OK Guys, I appreciate your comments, but I need more input. You say feeder wires, please explain in more detail. Sorry I am not up to speed on this but am just starting.
Are you saying add more terminal track pieces and run feeder wires to them from the same control unit?

Basically yes. Get a couple hunderd feet of 12 guage wire from your favorite source (Digi-Key, Home Depot, etc). It does not have to be insulated. Run two pieces under your layout - I suggest using cup hooks to hold it place, staples work too. Connect these to your power pack (or other train control system - like DCC). This is your "bus".

Every six feet or so, run 20 guage feeder wires from this "bus" to the rails. You can use terminal tracks if you want, most use terminal rail joiners, or solder the wires directly to the rails. Keep these feeders short, like less than 2 feet.

[Anonymous]

The feeders (small gauge solid wires) work like the one the terminal track that came with your set.

Bus wire is a large gauge wire (like household wire) that runs around underneath your layout, approximately below the track. Every 3 to 6 feet, you need a feeder going from the bus to the track. You can buy rail joiners that are wired to provide power, or you can solder wire to the outside of the rails. That way you do not need the terminal sections (this approach is also cheaper than terminal sections... ;) ).

Andrew

PS - A 20x20 train room, you are very lucky!

[Anonymous]

First, 14 gauge wire works well in your circumstance. The reason I recommend this is that you can buy the wire contractors use in houses at Home Depot or the like and save some money. You will need to cut the outer protective off to get at the wire underneath it. I have done this - no big deal.

Secondly, you used a dreaded term among some of us and that is - the "train set power pack". These are usually garbage.

Thirdly, you had to know this was coming. If you are like me and your total knowledge of electricity is how to turn the kitchen light on and off, seriously consider going dcc as it will simplify your wiring, ten fold - even an electrically challenged individual such as myself could understand it.

So you run two power buses (2 wires - different colours -14 gauge) under your layout. We will call the two wires - A and B. Now feeders go from your track to power bus wire. We will call each set of feeders - 1 and 2. So feeder 1 goes to bus wire A and feeder 2 goes to bus wire B. See I told you it is easy.

You will come up with many recommendations for the distance between each feeder, but many are beginning to accept that every three feet is best for electrical and signal integrity.

The wiring can get more complicated than what I just described at reversing loops, wye's, turntables, etc. But start out with what you can understand, then go from there.

Buy "The Big Book of DCC". Read the first half of hit several times.

[Anonymous]

OK, it is starting to sink in. Sounds simple enough. Running the 14 gauge (bus) will be no problem, however connecting the feeder wires, both to track and to the bus will be tricky. The layout shelf is only 6 inches wide so feeder wires will be quite short, maybe 2 inches. I assume soldering feeder wires to the bus would be best, but time consuming. Looking at a piece of Lifelike Power Loc track, soldering to it would be next to impossible. Maybe the rail jointers is the answer. So, my work is cut out for me.
Thank you all for your comments and I will keep you posted.
sharpe

[Anonymous]

If you are like I was about three months ago, I was a "soldering" virgin - never really soldered before. A short cut you can try is soldering feeders to the bottom of wire joiners. But my recommendation is to use insulated joiners every where and make each piece of track its own block (its own little layout). This may sound like a lot of work, but if you solder every three feet you are almost doing that anyway.

Why should you create so many blocks? Well eventually if you signal or use a computer to run trains, even if just out of staging you won't regret small blocks (remember flex track is three feet long - so feeders to each flex track; then feeders to each turnout). Also when I do have an electrical problem, it will be isolated to the one block it is occurring in - and this I really like - instead of playing detective and trying to find the short "somewhere" on the layout.

In hooking up feeders to the bus wire, consider using "suitcase connectors." You won't find one that hooks up 22 gauge wire to 14 gauge wire, but my buddy discovered a technique where he hooked up two 22 guage feeder wires to one suit case connector, hooked up to 14 gauge. This short cut will save you lots of time.

As a friend of mine likes to say - "You can't be too thin, too rich, or have too much wiring."

[Anonymous]

One thing to note: Use multi-strand wire for your buss wire. Single strand wire like
that used in house wiring is to be avoided. This is because electricity flows on the
surface of the conductor. Multi-strand wire has more surface area and offers less
resistance to electricity. The whole purpose of your buss/feeder system is to
reduce the resistive load between your locomotive and the power pack.

Have fun!

[Anonymous]

OK guys which is it? Solid 14 guage bus wire or stranded?????
What are your thoughts about connecting feeder wires to the buss wires with small alligator clips?
I was successful in soldering the feeder wires to the track rails, but soldering would be quite difficult up on the shelf layout.
Thanks for your comments
sharpe

[Anonymous]

Multi-strand wire will offer much less resistance than single-strand in any electrical application.

[nfmisso]

Hi Sharpe;

For model railroad applications, solid vs stranded makes no difference (see fyi below). The DC resistance of 12 guage (solid or stranded) is 1.65 ohms per thousand feet, for 14 guage it is 2.68.

The difference between solid and stranded is capacitance, and the current flow at higher frequencies tends closer to the surface. Even DCC is low frequency.

Home Depot, and similar, have 12 guage and 14 guage in stock, very little price difference. Most new homes are wired with 12 guage, because the current electrical code requires 12 guage to most of the kitchen outlets, and stocking just one size on the electrician's truck is easier.

Connections: 3M suitcase connectors (or similar) also typically available at Home Depot provide a solder free connections. These are the same connections that are often used for trailer wiring, to tap into the turn signal and brake light wires. Many autoparts stores also have them.

I prefer the bare wire approach, and wrapping the feeder around the bus wire, then solder. Give your self 3" to 4" min extra feeder wire length to make handling easier.

FYI: I am a design engineer and audio enthusiast, with the technical back ground to make this statement.

[trollw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sharpe

What are your thoughts about connecting feeder wires to the buss wires with small alligator clips?

Using alligator clips would wind up being pretty expensive. They also have the problem that they only make contact with the wire they are clipped on to at a few pinpoints (tooth to wire). If you don't move the alligatior clip periodically, you will start to build up corrosion (which is very resistive) between the clip and the wire. If you are trying to keep from soldering under the layout: (1) put short feeder wires on the buss before you put the buss under the layout, (2) attach short feeders to the tracks, then (3) use twist-lock connectors to connect the appropriate feeder sets together.

John

[Anonymous]

Phew. My head spins. We used stranded wire. I am contemplating placing a similar bus under my 2x8 shelf and this has answered many questions.

I had a chill down my spine on the words "Cheap trainset power pack" ((Shudder))

That is usually a kiss of death to some very fine engines out there. Sometimes if the moter needs over an amp to stall out the power pack may even burn out before it stalls.

Good Luck.

Lee