photo contest

[Anonymous]

QUESTION: Who would you have the contest open to? Modelers with Instamatic cameras and flashcubes? How about Polaroid cameras? Now they would produce some memorable photos that a magazine would want to publi***o show of the best of our hobby! ANSWER: Are they (we) not model railroader deserving of respect too? Just because we choose to follow a path where we would rather own another loco rather than buy a Nikon, we are now second class modelers whos attempts to capture our modeling skills with inferior equipment amuse you? You know, other magazines like Hot Rod accept pictures even if taken with shoddy Polaroids and if they think they have merit they send a staff photographer to go shoot some magazine quality photos to print. But not MR, they expect the reader (and purchaser who keep them in business) to do it. In essence this contest causes hurt feeling from modeler who don't have the desire or skill to be a professional ( or amateur have you ) photographer. We then feel like we are being penalized for not fitting a mold that MR has determined we need fit. They then do it again because they tell me in articles that since I don't run my railroad like the real one I'm not an operator. They try and jam opertions down my throat. I'm not in a club and that's wrong too. I don't use floquil paint, how bad am I? I'm sick of being told by a company that I pay money to that I'm not their idea of a model railroader because i don't own a Nikon or a mega computer to create supernatural pixelized image of a digital world. Then you tell me how fair the contest is in one paragraph and then make fun of me in another because I don't own an SLR. Then I get this $%#&^ renewal notice with yet another price increase!!! So you good old boys have your little photo contest and to answer the original question once again, no I think I will save my time and money and not enter the contest. Maybe if enough of us don't enter the price of MR will drop due to a decrease in their trash bill. As to this renewal notice, well, I just don't know. FRED

[Anonymous]

QUESTION: Who would you have the contest open to? Modelers with Instamatic cameras and flashcubes? How about Polaroid cameras? Now they would produce some memorable photos that a magazine would want to publi***o show of the best of our hobby! ANSWER: Are they (we) not model railroader deserving of respect too? Just because we choose to follow a path where we would rather own another loco rather than buy a Nikon, we are now second class modelers whos attempts to capture our modeling skills with inferior equipment amuse you? You know, other magazines like Hot Rod accept pictures even if taken with shoddy Polaroids and if they think they have merit they send a staff photographer to go shoot some magazine quality photos to print. But not MR, they expect the reader (and purchaser who keep them in business) to do it. In essence this contest causes hurt feeling from modeler who don't have the desire or skill to be a professional ( or amateur have you ) photographer. We then feel like we are being penalized for not fitting a mold that MR has determined we need fit. They then do it again because they tell me in articles that since I don't run my railroad like the real one I'm not an operator. They try and jam opertions down my throat. I'm not in a club and that's wrong too. I don't use floquil paint, how bad am I? I'm sick of being told by a company that I pay money to that I'm not their idea of a model railroader because i don't own a Nikon or a mega computer to create supernatural pixelized image of a digital world. Then you tell me how fair the contest is in one paragraph and then make fun of me in another because I don't own an SLR. Then I get this $%#&^ renewal notice with yet another price increase!!! So you good old boys have your little photo contest and to answer the original question once again, no I think I will save my time and money and not enter the contest. Maybe if enough of us don't enter the price of MR will drop due to a decrease in their trash bill. As to this renewal notice, well, I just don't know. FRED

[CNJ831]

FRED - I think that you are missing the point of MR's annual photo contest. This contest is indeed all about producing the best, most realistic, photographic (or digital) image of a model scene. It is most definitely not about imagining the best model. And Bob B. is absolutely correct, it is not the expensive photographic equipment that makes for winners, it is the clever and creative eye behind the camera that does the trick. For the many photos I had published in MR and RMC I used the most basic Pentax SLR on the market, combined with a particular lens that was optimized for model photography. My total outlay of cash was under $300 and I use this same camera for all my other personal photography needs.

For many years MR ran its Model of the Month page, in which reader's modeling handywork was spotlighted. There were no backgrounds, image alterations, etc. Often there wasn't even any track under a locomotive! Only the modeler's skill and the quality of the model counted. Most unfortunately, MR decided to drop a few years ago. I've always considered that a grave mistake on MR's part.

Then, too, if you want to go back further, MR used to occasionally have actual model contests for the readers, often choosing a subject and letting readers go at it. The winning creations would appear in the magazine and there was usually modest prize money.

Both of these latter venues were intended to applaud and recognize strictly modeling ability. The photo contest was aimed at those who excelled in the photographing of miniature scenes. At least in my opinion, this is just as it should be.

CNJ831

[CNJ831]

FRED - I think that you are missing the point of MR's annual photo contest. This contest is indeed all about producing the best, most realistic, photographic (or digital) image of a model scene. It is most definitely not about imagining the best model. And Bob B. is absolutely correct, it is not the expensive photographic equipment that makes for winners, it is the clever and creative eye behind the camera that does the trick. For the many photos I had published in MR and RMC I used the most basic Pentax SLR on the market, combined with a particular lens that was optimized for model photography. My total outlay of cash was under $300 and I use this same camera for all my other personal photography needs.

For many years MR ran its Model of the Month page, in which reader's modeling handywork was spotlighted. There were no backgrounds, image alterations, etc. Often there wasn't even any track under a locomotive! Only the modeler's skill and the quality of the model counted. Most unfortunately, MR decided to drop a few years ago. I've always considered that a grave mistake on MR's part.

Then, too, if you want to go back further, MR used to occasionally have actual model contests for the readers, often choosing a subject and letting readers go at it. The winning creations would appear in the magazine and there was usually modest prize money.

Both of these latter venues were intended to applaud and recognize strictly modeling ability. The photo contest was aimed at those who excelled in the photographing of miniature scenes. At least in my opinion, this is just as it should be.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

CNJ831 I submit you feel that way because you are a decent photographer and have won the photography contest. You are biased. Or do you feel it's fair because us who don't own a "$300 camera" or a high powered digital camera and graphics power computer with software are not modelers and deserve nothing from a company we also support by buying the magazine and reading and buying items that are paid advertising in the magazine. This contest stinks because it fragments and alienates the readers of model railroader. As you stated above they use to have contests for modelers but gave it up. Why did they give it up? Unless an editor wants to explain why I say the once again the photo contest is being used as a cheap and easy method for the editors to get fill material for the magazine and boost sales for one or two months. You photographer types keep repeating the same theme that it's you photo skills that make you a winner. I have never said it don't. But I challange you to do it with a sub $100 instamatic type camera which most of us modelers probally own. And address why you think it's fair to the non photophile modeler to have a contest that they help pay for but can never hope to reap reward from other than getting to look at other work? Don't tell me you deserve it because it's your skill, the name is model railroader, not model photography. FRED

[Anonymous]

CNJ831 I submit you feel that way because you are a decent photographer and have won the photography contest. You are biased. Or do you feel it's fair because us who don't own a "$300 camera" or a high powered digital camera and graphics power computer with software are not modelers and deserve nothing from a company we also support by buying the magazine and reading and buying items that are paid advertising in the magazine. This contest stinks because it fragments and alienates the readers of model railroader. As you stated above they use to have contests for modelers but gave it up. Why did they give it up? Unless an editor wants to explain why I say the once again the photo contest is being used as a cheap and easy method for the editors to get fill material for the magazine and boost sales for one or two months. You photographer types keep repeating the same theme that it's you photo skills that make you a winner. I have never said it don't. But I challange you to do it with a sub $100 instamatic type camera which most of us modelers probally own. And address why you think it's fair to the non photophile modeler to have a contest that they help pay for but can never hope to reap reward from other than getting to look at other work? Don't tell me you deserve it because it's your skill, the name is model railroader, not model photography. FRED

[dknelson]

Old Aesop had it pretty accurately with his story of the fox and the grapes .....

Seems to me the things said about the photo contest can be said about NMRA modeling contests (or any competition or game for that matter): the people who are better at something than you are tend to win. Shocking development! We Milwaukee Brewers fans have become very used to the application of this principle!

To win you need good modeling, good camera, expensive lighting equipment, and worst of all, artistic skill. That excludes me on each and every front! But that does not make the contest a waste of time for those with some or all of the necessary criteria.
Dave Nelson

[dknelson]

Old Aesop had it pretty accurately with his story of the fox and the grapes .....

Seems to me the things said about the photo contest can be said about NMRA modeling contests (or any competition or game for that matter): the people who are better at something than you are tend to win. Shocking development! We Milwaukee Brewers fans have become very used to the application of this principle!

To win you need good modeling, good camera, expensive lighting equipment, and worst of all, artistic skill. That excludes me on each and every front! But that does not make the contest a waste of time for those with some or all of the necessary criteria.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Dave, you are right. For an estimated 90% or more or the faithful readers of MR this photo contest is a total waste of time. I think I'll enter a Polaroid of $29.99 christmas train going around my xmas tree as a protest. Who knows, I may win! FRED

[Anonymous]

Dave, you are right. For an estimated 90% or more or the faithful readers of MR this photo contest is a total waste of time. I think I'll enter a Polaroid of $29.99 christmas train going around my xmas tree as a protest. Who knows, I may win! FRED

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

For an estimated 90% or more or the faithful readers of MR this photo contest is a total waste of time.

I wonder if you could share with us the very extensive survey carried out of the 200K or so MR readers that says 90% of them think the photo contest is a waste of time?

I guess it all boils down to "Those who can, do. Those who can't, don't."

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

For an estimated 90% or more or the faithful readers of MR this photo contest is a total waste of time.

I wonder if you could share with us the very extensive survey carried out of the 200K or so MR readers that says 90% of them think the photo contest is a waste of time?

I guess it all boils down to "Those who can, do. Those who can't, don't."

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

That's would be easy if you could get the actual number of entries from MR. You would then divide it the average numbers of monthy sales for the year and multiply by 100. But they will most likely not supply this data so i took it upon myself to make a best guess estimate from the % of US citizens who stated they pratice hobby photography in the last census and multiplied it by 10 as a fudge factor as maybe more model railroaders practice hobby photography as a sideline. Prove me wrong. BTW, where did you get the 200K figure? FRED

[Anonymous]

That's would be easy if you could get the actual number of entries from MR. You would then divide it the average numbers of monthy sales for the year and multiply by 100. But they will most likely not supply this data so i took it upon myself to make a best guess estimate from the % of US citizens who stated they pratice hobby photography in the last census and multiplied it by 10 as a fudge factor as maybe more model railroaders practice hobby photography as a sideline. Prove me wrong. BTW, where did you get the 200K figure? FRED

[Anonymous]

Guys,

I think the idea of the MR photo contest is to get some people off of their duffs to take some photos of their great modeling and SHARE it with the rest of us. Photos are the only way for everyone to see your work (unless you are going to personally invite us all to your layout). They have to hang a carrot out there (contest prizes) because, as many of you have said, it is not easy to get good modeling photos. The main reason I buy MR and other mags is for the photos of other people's modeling.

Who wins the contest? Everyone who enters because they all end up with some decent photos of their work which they can share with others. Who actually wins the prizes is an asthetic judgement. These types of decisions are always subjective and therefore open to legitimate debate.

There is a part of the NMRA (I don't want to hear trash about them, lets just say we disagree) modeling philosophy that says that part of the hobby is sharing and promoting the hobby with others for the greater good of all of us modelers. I say having good photos of good modeling is one of these aspects. How many of you saw John Allen's railroad in person? I was 14 when he died. Never made it to Monterey to see the layout. Through photos that he took of his layout, I have been deeply influenced by his work (yes, I know he was a professional photographer). I think most of us could cite some influences that have come through seeing photographs of work that would be impossible for us to view in person.

Is there bias sometimes when deciding what photos get printed? Who knows? I would postulate that because photography is very technical, the reason most photos don't end up in MR is due to some technical flaw (too dark, out of focus, bad color shift, poor depth of field, poor lighting etc.) rather than some great conspiracy. Read the section on taking photos on the MR site. There are a lot of factors.

I am sending some photos in to the contest. I don't care if I win. I still have some good shots of a layout that is now history. Years from now when I am gone my grandkids (I hope I have some some day) can look at the slides and see what I did back in the old days. I can also show the slides to others who might be interested in model Railroading.

Photography is one of the most effective means of communication we modelers have. There are lots of ways to get photos of your work. Yes, it is a lot of extra time and can cost money. In the end you might find it to be worth it.

Just my two cents worth.

Guy

[Anonymous]

Guys,

I think the idea of the MR photo contest is to get some people off of their duffs to take some photos of their great modeling and SHARE it with the rest of us. Photos are the only way for everyone to see your work (unless you are going to personally invite us all to your layout). They have to hang a carrot out there (contest prizes) because, as many of you have said, it is not easy to get good modeling photos. The main reason I buy MR and other mags is for the photos of other people's modeling.

Who wins the contest? Everyone who enters because they all end up with some decent photos of their work which they can share with others. Who actually wins the prizes is an asthetic judgement. These types of decisions are always subjective and therefore open to legitimate debate.

There is a part of the NMRA (I don't want to hear trash about them, lets just say we disagree) modeling philosophy that says that part of the hobby is sharing and promoting the hobby with others for the greater good of all of us modelers. I say having good photos of good modeling is one of these aspects. How many of you saw John Allen's railroad in person? I was 14 when he died. Never made it to Monterey to see the layout. Through photos that he took of his layout, I have been deeply influenced by his work (yes, I know he was a professional photographer). I think most of us could cite some influences that have come through seeing photographs of work that would be impossible for us to view in person.

Is there bias sometimes when deciding what photos get printed? Who knows? I would postulate that because photography is very technical, the reason most photos don't end up in MR is due to some technical flaw (too dark, out of focus, bad color shift, poor depth of field, poor lighting etc.) rather than some great conspiracy. Read the section on taking photos on the MR site. There are a lot of factors.

I am sending some photos in to the contest. I don't care if I win. I still have some good shots of a layout that is now history. Years from now when I am gone my grandkids (I hope I have some some day) can look at the slides and see what I did back in the old days. I can also show the slides to others who might be interested in model Railroading.

Photography is one of the most effective means of communication we modelers have. There are lots of ways to get photos of your work. Yes, it is a lot of extra time and can cost money. In the end you might find it to be worth it.

Just my two cents worth.

Guy