Branchline Passenger Cars

[claycts]

Glad it is NOT the track

[tcf511]

Thanks for the advice Randy. I've run over 50 different cars and 4 locomotives around my track multiple times now and the only thing that keeps having a problem are three of the Bachmann Spectrum passenger cars. I'm going to fool around this weekend some and look at all of the various things that people have told me to check on the cars.

[rghammill]

I agree, I would look at the trackwork. The Bachmann cars will navigate smaller radius turns better than the Branchline or Walthers RTR without modifications.

The Bachmann cars have no center sill (that extends under the car and between the trucks). The Branchline and Walthers cars both have the sills and this limits the amount they can turn. There are other parts (especially the hoses and other details around the coupler) on the Branchline car that may also interfere, but the sills create the absolute limit. I believe that the Bachmann ones should work on 18" curves, the Branchline indicate 22" and the Walthers require 24" radius curves.

Also, if there is a problem with the cars derailing, there are a couple of other things you can try to identify the issue. If you slowly push the car by hand, you'll feel the car "stick" before the wheels jump the track if the radius is too tight.

If the cars are close-coupled, then run a couple by hand to make sure the car ends themselves aren't coming in contact with each other. This would also be a problem.

Another option (similar msowsun's post about removing the middle wheelset) is to replace the 6-wheel trucks with 4-wheel trucks. I believe a lot of prototypes did this when better trucks were available at the time they got around to rebuilding the cars.

If you are unsure that your trackwork is accurate, you could get one of the ribbonrail track guages. You can get them in various radii, they are a metal guage that fits between the rails.

I don't really think you'll need to do much modification on those cars, they should work on your curves without a problem. You may just have a little fine-tuning to do.

Randy

 

 

 

[claycts]

Thank you oh Guru if the DCC world!

Got an Atlas RS3 and a Mantua Camelback in CNJ. Will put sound in both.

I am going to rework that Hudson, I like it and the Mike is so good that I feel I can cure th Hudson also.

Is that old post serachable or History?

Oh yes this thread cost me $17.99 got Branchline 50ft undecorated Express Reefer. Had to see what this was all about!

[rrinker]

 That can keep them from programming on the program track, but that's all QSI decoders, not jus tht Hudson. The biggest problem with the Hudson first generation is poor power pickup, between the sintered iron wheels and the lack of all-wheel pickup like later models (the newer ones pick up with all loco drivers, and split the tender), and the odd type of wipers used, they are very picky about the track. As for programming it - my Zephyr programs them all, it seems just the DCS100 doesn't put ut enough power on the program track for whatever reason. You should be able to change the address just fine on the main though. You actually have to used a couple of the indexed CVs to set the values for CV17 and CV18, it won't let you program directly to those, and then set CV29 and off you go. A long time ago I posted exact steps for doing so from a DT400, although the address example I used was probably for the cab number to a different loco.

                                       --Randy

[claycts]

 The capacitor circuit would be instead of a decoder. The idea is to keep the light from flickering if there is any contact issue - lights may flicker over poor contact area where you otherwise don't even notice it with a powered loco (the loco doesn;t hesitate, but the lights flicker).
 The issue with QSI decoders is they have a rather large capacitor in them to keep the sound alive through these momentary glitches. Good thing, yes, but since it is connected directly across the decoder's power supply, on initial startup the capacitor appears as a dead short until it charges, This is long enough to trip some boosters, and partially a cause of the inablity to program them on the program track of some system. A proper capacitor circuit adds a diode and resitor to the mix, the resistor limits the instantaneous current through the capacitor while it charges, at the expense of slightly extending the charge time. The diode allows the capacitor to discharge and provide the 'backup power' function without being limited by the resistor.

                                     --Randy

Randy, is this the problem with the 1st generation Hudson from BLI? I asked on their forum and never got an answer. Still running it with the short address.

P.S. 100% of tracks is in and (2) of the three TT's are in and working. Looks like we may add up to Wilkes Barrie to the plan (Phase 1a) Phase 2 is still on hold. Posted some pics on my website.

[tcf511]

Thanks for all of the replies. I see that I should have supplied more specifics in the first place. I don't think it is the track for the following reasons:

1. The derailments were not in the same place and didn't occur on the same curves.
2. All of my freight cars run fine and I have a complete set of the Walther's Circus Train cars that are fairly long and they run just fine.

It could have something to do with the electrical pickups interfering with the wheels as suggested because not all six cars derailed now that I think about it, only 3 of the 6. These cars have trucks that move in tandem with the couplers. Is it possible that different couplers (possibly longer or shorter shanks) might improve the performance?

Thanks for all of the advice and information.

[rrinker]

 The capacitor circuit would be instead of a decoder. The idea is to keep the light from flickering if there is any contact issue - lights may flicker over poor contact area where you otherwise don't even notice it with a powered loco (the loco doesn;t hesitate, but the lights flicker).
 The issue with QSI decoders is they have a rather large capacitor in them to keep the sound alive through these momentary glitches. Good thing, yes, but since it is connected directly across the decoder's power supply, on initial startup the capacitor appears as a dead short until it charges, This is long enough to trip some boosters, and partially a cause of the inablity to program them on the program track of some system. A proper capacitor circuit adds a diode and resitor to the mix, the resistor limits the instantaneous current through the capacitor while it charges, at the expense of slightly extending the charge time. The diode allows the capacitor to discharge and provide the 'backup power' function without being limited by the resistor.

                                     --Randy

[Shilshole]

That's true about the multi-wheel pickup.  I've just found axle wipers easier to install and maintain, but I have nine thumbs.  Plus it's a good excuse to use narrower tread wheels...

I'm not familiar with the QSI surge problem.  Doesn't the capacitor circuit kinda negate the advantage of decoder controlled lighting?  Or maybe I'm confused.

[rrinker]

 Since they are metal wheels you could rig wheel wipers to the existing wheels and get 8 (or 12) wheel pickup. For flicker free lighting - on one of the Yahoo DCC groups, Mark Gurries posted a schematic of a circuit that provides 5V DC from DCC track with a keep-alive capacitor that is properly charged via a resistor to prevent current surges (the problem with QSI sound decoders). If you don't mind the lights being on anytime the cars are on powered track, this is the way to go.

                                                --Randy

[Shilshole]

Re: DCC-controlled lights

It should be possible to fit a smallish decoder under the roof, although it's not a hollow clerestory, or in a lavatory (frost the outside of the window to hide it).  The kit comes with metal wheels on plastic axles, so you'd have to replace the wheelsets (ReBoxx 36-inch with 0.90-inch axles are a match) and rig some wipers to them, or just install some track wipers.  In either case, it's probably better to use LEDs to avoid the heat generated by bulbs.

edit:  Note that the ReBoxx wheels have an .088 tread rather than the standard .110 tread.  While they look great, they're not as tolerant of poor trackwork.  All the more reason to strive for trackwork perfection...

[csmith9474]

I also believe that the Spectrum cars are Pennsy prototypes. I am sure you could find something that is a better "fit" for your J with the Branchline cars.

[Lillen]

Thanks a lot for those links, they look stunning I think. Anyone who knows if threre is an easy way to put DCC friendly lights into them?

 

Magnus

[Shilshole]

Do anyone have a link to these passenger cars?

Here's the Branchline passenger car url:
<http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/passengercars/pass_intro.htm> from which you can get the part number you're interested in.

I'm trying to find good ones at a decent price.

This place is fast and has reasonable prices (I have no connection with it, other than as a satisfied customer):
<http://www.rrtrains.com/>

[msowsun]

I had alot of trouble with all my heavyweights on a modular club layout because the track was so bad. 

Here is the solution: Make sure one truck is snug and one truck is loose so that you have a "Three Point" suspension. Then remove the center axle from the 3 axle trucks. Made a world of difference on bad track. The missing axle will allow the trucks to operate on bad track and you will never even notice it is not there.

 

[Lillen]

Do anyone have a link to these passenger cars? I'm trying to find good ones at a decent price.

 

Magnus

[ProtoWeathering]

Excellent advise guys.

One other thing I might mention is to check the track with a straight edge and/or torpedo level where you're having problems. If the track has a slight dip or or tilts ever so slightly, the rigid trucks won't follow the track and will derail.

Good luck.

[rrinker]

 I believe the biggest problem with the Spectrum cars is the electrical pickups interfering with smooth truck rotation. Make sure the trucks can swivel smoothly through their entire range of motion. There's no reason those cars should not handle your curves.
 The Branchline cars might be able to handle 22" radius - IF you leave off some of the detail, there's no way the completely built kit will handle a 22" radius curve without knocking some details off - I assume you are talking about the kit versions. The built-up versions would probbaly have the same problem, since they have all the details that are in the kit - very nice cars BTW.

                                  --Randy

[Shilshole]

The Branchlines are very well detailed cars, and they will easily negotiate curve radii less than 28 inches, although Branchline recommends relocating or leaving off some underframe parts to avoid problems on tighter curves.  An excellent article on building the kits, including mods for tighter curves and solving some other challenges, is in the June, 2004, issue of Mainline Modeler.

[Pathfinder]

I have a BLI N&W J and would like to put together a passenger consist to go with it. I bought a set of six Bachmann Spectrum cars. One time around my layout and I realized that my curves are too tight for these cars because three out of six derailed on the curves. I'm considering getting Brachline cars instead. They appear to have good detail and their ads say that they will run on 22" curves (mine are 26 and 28). Do any of you have experience with these cars on tighter curves like mine? I know that IHC and Athearn make shorter cars but I'm told that they lack detail. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Not the cars, have you checked the gauge of the track? Have you checked the gauge in the wheels?

With this radius it must be flex track, correct? If so any kinks? Are your transitions from track to track (rail joints) smooth? You are talking about parking a lot of money because of a possible track problem.

How to fix it;

1. Get some pins

2. Run the train SLOW and put a pin where a car derails

3. run the train AGAIN and put a pin where the car derails.

Same Place, that is your problem. Different place then REPEAT 2 and 3 as required till you find ALL the bad spots.

The above is an assumpution that the cars are correct weight, the couplers are the correct height and location and the bolsters on the cars are not binding.

Good luck!

Great answer!   One of the best responses to a question I have read here.  Could have just said "Google it"

And I would second claycts, your curves are better than conventional (24") so I am surprised that the Bachmann's are having issues, meaning the problem is probably not the cars but something else like track.

[claycts]

I have a BLI N&W J and would like to put together a passenger consist to go with it. I bought a set of six Bachmann Spectrum cars. One time around my layout and I realized that my curves are too tight for these cars because three out of six derailed on the curves. I'm considering getting Brachline cars instead. They appear to have good detail and their ads say that they will run on 22" curves (mine are 26 and 28). Do any of you have experience with these cars on tighter curves like mine? I know that IHC and Athearn make shorter cars but I'm told that they lack detail. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Not the cars, have you checked the gauge of the track? Have you checked the gauge in the wheels?

With this radius it must be flex track, correct? If so any kinks? Are your transitions from track to track (rail joints) smooth? You are talking about parking a lot of money because of a possible track problem.

How to fix it;

1. Get some pins

2. Run the train SLOW and put a pin where a car derails

3. run the train AGAIN and put a pin where the car derails.

Same Place, that is your problem. Different place then REPEAT 2 and 3 as required till you find ALL the bad spots.

The above is an assumpution that the cars are correct weight, the couplers are the correct height and location and the bolsters on the cars are not binding.

Good luck!

[tcf511]

I have a BLI N&W J and would like to put together a passenger consist to go with it. I bought a set of six Bachmann Spectrum cars. One time around my layout and I realized that my curves are too tight for these cars because three out of six derailed on the curves. I'm considering getting Brachline cars instead. They appear to have good detail and their ads say that they will run on 22" curves (mine are 26 and 28). Do any of you have experience with these cars on tighter curves like mine? I know that IHC and Athearn make shorter cars but I'm told that they lack detail. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.