Is {The worlds greatest hobby} campaign really working?

[Paul3]

Ok, Dave, but in my defense, you put your original statement in quotes, as in: "...if you really want to do the hobby correctly you need to get a couple of BLI steamers and a XYZ $500 DCC system cause it can be expanded later." When you put a sentence in quotes, to me it means your quoting someone...which means that someone actually has said that you need a couple BLI steamers and an XYZ $500 DCC system.

Mine, however, was not in quotes. So at best it's just my opinion of what you were saying, at worst mere hyperbole.

I grant you that you never said, specifically, that "...a piece of junk was a fine model." However, you did imply that Bachmann Spectrum was not junk (by knocking those that says it is junk)...and I hate to break it to you but sometimes Spectrum is junk. [;)] I know, because I've got some of them.

So I've admitted that you never said that a piece of junk is a fine model (even tho' that's my opinion of what you were saying)... Now where's your admittance that no one has ever said "if you really want to do the hobby correctly you need to get a couple of BLI steamers and a XYZ $500 DCC system cause it can be expanded later."???

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[davekelly]

You're right Paul. One should never say something has happened unless, as you said you can "point out exactly where this has ever happened?"


Please reread my first post. Then read your reply to it. Show me where I said that you should tell someone "a piece of junk is a fine model." Bet you can't find it. Bet you can't find any post of mine that says that.

[Paul3]

Dave,
What I see you and Brakie doing is making sweeping negative statements about the participants of this forum without citing a single source. As far as I can tell, it's a "strawman" argument where you set up a scenario where someone acts poorly (ie, "...tell a newbie that if you're not using high end stuff you can't play in this hobby..."), and then roundly condemn such behavior. However, so far (and I admit I don't read every post here...man, who could?) I have yet to see anyone post something like that here (and as you can see, I've been here a while). So please quote or post a link to the thread where someone actually said, "if you really want to do the hobby correctly you need to get a couple of BLI steamers and a XYZ $500 DCC system cause it can be expanded later," or something simular.

QUOTE: I don't believe I have ever said that people shouldn't give opinions.

You didn't say that we should not offer our opinion, but you certainly criticized those that do. "Sometimes the biggest discouragment some new folks get is from us." Certainly sounds like we're the bad guys here, doesn't it?

QUOTE: There are ways to give opinions that are not perceived as being a put down. Would you want someone to call your new car a "junker"? Your house a ghetto? Your kid an idiot? I would think that you would no longer ask that person for his or her "hard earned opinion" and avoid contact with that person, but I may be wrong.

The problem here is that most if not all of the opinion questions that come up here aren't "what do you think of my new Brand X loco", but "what do you think of Brand X?" Obviously, one is going to be a little more gentle when one is giving one's opinion on something already owned. To use your example, the typical question that gets asked here is "What do you think of Ford?", not "What do you think of my new Ford?"

QUOTE: The second part of my post was opining that to tell someone what they should get with no regards to their budget, needs or desires isn't much help. Does a person need a wireless digitrax superchief to run a timesaver type layout when he is trying to do so for less than a couple hundred dollars? Does a newbie know this? Is this person going to enter a hobby based on such an opinion that basically says he can't afford to start?

You want to point out exactly where this has ever happened?

I know when "Student of the Big Sky Blue" was complaining that he couldn't find any $55 or less locos that were any good nor an online hobby shop that took money orders or checks, I spent less than 30 minutes of web searching to find a half dozen units and a couple big online stores that had them, payable by check. I then posted it to SotBSB.

BTW, your example of the 0-6-0 being "junk" in someone's opinion... Recently, we did have a thread where someone said that their one and only experience with Atlas was 20 years ago and because of that they are all poor runners. But did you notice the string of replies that said this guy was totally wrong about today's Atlas? Why isn't that being taken into consideration?

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[jblackwelljr]

I ignored this thread for several days but have now read the entire thing and find it compelling. If you step back and look at the entire picture, the opinions run the gamut. I think the diversity of participants’ opinions show what a cross-section of modelers we have here.

There will always be low-, mid-, and high-end markets; likewise there will always be skill levels that cover a broad spectrum. There will also be varying income levels to support these markets and skills. I think if the hobby can continue to offer products and services to support this level of diversity, it can survive.

From what I’ve personally witnessed, there are a lot of young people interested in MRR. Many of them naturally abandon the hobby for other pursuits, but some seem to come back in later years. I think like many things, it’s cyclical, so I have faith the hobby will be around for a while. Some suppliers will survive these cycles and some won’t – that’s just how it is in most industries.

In order to get/keep people involved, suppliers need to be active participants in promoting the hobby as well as marketing their products, while at the same time showing a profit. Hobbyists need to welcome newcomers and communicate the positives about the hobby – that includes honest opinions that may cause disagreement. If this is what the WGH initiative is all about then it's fulfilling its role as an effective marketing program.

Sorry for rambling.

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3

Gimme a break, Brakie and davekelly. Yeah, how dare we offer our hard earned opinion on what is junk is what is not. Gosh and golly.

How many people leave this hobby early because they listened to people like you two that said a piece of junk is a fine model? And when the darn thing won't go, stops working after a loop or two, won't stay on the track, or pull worth a darn, said newbie thinks that if this is good stuff, this whole hobby is worthless and quits... What then, Brakie & davekelly?

El cheapo junky engines and equipment, IMHO, drive more people out of the hobby than draw in.

*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

Paul,

I think you misunderstand my post. I don't think I said we should tell people that a piece of junk is a fine running model. Far from it.

I am not against high end stuff. I love it. I am, however, of the belief that to tell a newbie that if you're not using high end stuff you can't play in this hobby is intimidating to the person that is contemplating starting out and wants to learn more. Just as we avoid the car salesman who is constantly steering us to the totally decked out models that are clearly out of our price range.

Yes, subpar equipment is a turn off and will drive folks from the hobby. But subpar to what? By what standard? There are folks that love the new Bachmann stuff and others that avoid it like the plague. Where is the line drawn? How do we help the newbie decide that?

I don't believe I have ever said that people shouldn't give opinions. Far from it, I love reading the opinions and thoughts of others here and have always suggested that newbies review the various threads to read what others think about a certain product so that they can make an informed decision.

There are ways to give opinions that are not perceived as being a put down. Would you want someone to call your new car a "junker"? Your house a ghetto? Your kid an idiot? I would think that you would no longer ask that person for his or her "hard earned opinion" and avoid contact with that person, but I may be wrong.

I believe that a "that engine may give you problems down the road, you may want to consider other options that are out there - they might cost more, but will most likely provide more long term enjoyment and thus be better in the long run" is a way to give an opinion along with advise for future purchases. Yeah, says the same thing, but I think it would be received better and the newbie would see us as helpful rather than snobbish or a bunch of well heeled types.

The second part of my post was opining that to tell someone what they should get with no regards to their budget, needs or desires isn't much help. Does a person need a wireless digitrax superchief to run a timesaver type layout when he is trying to do so for less than a couple hundred dollars? Does a newbie know this? Is this person going to enter a hobby based on such an opinion that basically says he can't afford to start?

The other problem with answering a question with "its junk" is that it is sometimes made without all the facts. There are probably people around that would answer to "I'm thinking of buying a Life Like 0-6-0 for my first engine - what do you think" with "I bought Life Like stuff in the 60's - its junk." So here's a newbie looking at a pricey P2K engine thinking "wow - if this is junk who much does a good one cost?" Will this drive someone out? What damage is done to the hobby when this person tells another prospect "looks like a fun hobby, but gosh, a $100 engine is considered junk - too rich for my blood?"

If I said folks should not give an opinion and should tell newbies that "junk" engines are fine runners I apologize for my lack of writing skills as I certainly did not mean to suggest such a thing.

Dave

[SROC99]

I've been watching this thread with a bit of interest. since we (Kadee) attended our first WGH show in St. Paul, MN this last Feb. The posted attendance there was 31,274. Most people we visted with were either beginners or people that have never been exposed to model railroading. Of course, there were experienced veterans there but a small percentage comparatively. We answered a ton of questions concerning many aspects of getting started in this hobby. This included costs, product quality and availability, finding the right kind of help, overcoming bad expereinces, and my favorite, parental support for young modelers.
Is the WGH working and worth the efforts put into it, we say yes. When I was setting in our hotel room watching TV there were a couple of wonderful one minute TV ads about the St Paul show and I noticed the local papers had ads for it. Those of you that have made suggestions about promoting the WGH have you made these suggestions directly to the WGH or are you expecting them to read this forum for your comments?
As far as the strength of this hobby and it's longevity, it still is a strong viable industry and it will remain so for a very long time. What we see are many up and down trends that have exsisted in this hobby from the beginning. There are many changes and differences from the "old days" of model railroading. Now days there are so many other hobbies available that it's an actual competition for the consumers hobby dollars. We have a world wide market and have a pretty good idea of the overall big picture of the model railroading industry, at least concerning Kadee.
WGH is simply an effort to promote model railroading. I wi***here were more of us that were willing to spend their time helping and teaching the young and new to the hobby about model railroading and the many different ways we enjoy it, because that's what it's all about. WGH is one way the industry is helping what about you individuals and your clubs what have you done lately to help promote this hobby???

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quailty Products

[MisterBeasley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

MisterBeasley,I suspect its because many modelers have moved on to other magazines..After all MR did get stale for a period but,seems to be improving with each issue..This is the first year I have bought MR every month as I found interesting articles in each issue of late.[:D]

I'm sure that's true to some extent, too. I suspect that most "niche" magazines get stale for any individual reader, because there are only so many unique topics to cover, and then things just start repeating themselves. After a while, technology changes and new methods are developed, and the cycle can start again.

One thing that MR magazines can do is include layout pictures. I typically buy magazines to read on airplanes, so I take the time to really study the photos. There is a lot of detail there not covered by the articles, and it's a real education to see what other modellers have done with their scenery.

I'm a fairly regular reader of both MR and RMC, and I find that between them they cover the territory fairly well.

[Paul3]

And my point, Brakie, is that the hobby has always, always had a high end market, and obviously it's never stopped anyone from becoming a model railroader before, so why should it now?

And of course you expected me to respond as I have...we've only had this conversation about a hundred times over the past several years.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[BRAKIE]

MisterBeasley,I suspect its because many modelers have moved on to other magazines..After all MR did get stale for a period but,seems to be improving with each issue..This is the first year I have bought MR every month as I found interesting articles in each issue of late.[:D]

[MisterBeasley]

I'm sorry to see that MR Magazine is losing readers, but I think that is indicative more of the state of print media than of the hobby. The Internet has fundamentally changed the way we search for and acquire information. Ten years ago, if I wanted to read something about model railroading, I had to go to my LHS and buy a magazine. Now, it's as easy (and free) as pulling down the Favorites menu and picking one of these forums.

Still, I would agree that the WGH campaign isn't going anywhere if it's going to have booths only at train shows. "Preaching to the choir" is exactly what they're doing. What would be far more productive would be a road-show at the malls. Think about it - there is a built-in captive audience of young boys and middle-aged men who have been dragged there by their mothers and wives. If the campaign could partner with local shops, clubs and upcoming train shows, it could draw new people into the hobby, and keep them there long after the booth has moved on to the next town.

[Dave Vollmer]

I don't know if WGH specifically is working, but I don't see the hobby dying. Look at how many of the forum members are teenagers here! I also think model railroaders beget model railroaders. My dad was a MR, I'm a MR, and my almost 4-year-old son is most definetly on his way to becoming a MR. I hope my other son (who's now just a baby) will also pick up the flag an carry on. For now he seems fascinated by daddy's little trains.

I think Model Railroader magazine can help here by stopping cramming DCC and staging and operations down our throats. I CHOOSE to use DCC but don't print articles that say you HAVE to have DCC to be taken seriously. I have great admiration for the experts like Mr Koester and the like, but when the mesage is constantly "Unless you do what I do you're not a model railroader, so get to work building your US&S CTC machine!" you're going to scare folks off.

I know in the N scale community a lot of folks have stopped subscribing to MR, since it's mostly HO modeling (I know, that's what most people model). Strange, because in the 1990s, it seemed as if MR had more emphasis on N scale, to the point where I remember one letter to the editor saying they should change the name to "N Scale Model Railroader!" Goes to show you can never please everyone. I keep my MR subscription, but I'd like to see more variety of scales and of talent levels.

How about a layout visit to some guy who doesn't have a crew of 15 to operate it? How about more articles on stretching the hobby dollar? I guess that last one won't happen as long as the advertisers account for so much of MR's income. I guess that's why they pu***he high-end stuff and DCC so hard.

Thanks for listening!

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3

Gimme a break, Brakie and davekelly. Yeah, how dare we offer our hard earned opinion on what is junk is what is not. Gosh and golly.

How many people leave this hobby early because they listened to people like you two that said a piece of junk is a fine model? And when the darn thing won't go, stops working after a loop or two, won't stay on the track, or pull worth a darn, said newbie thinks that if this is good stuff, this whole hobby is worthless and quits... What then, Brakie & davekelly?

El cheapo junky engines and equipment, IMHO, drive more people out of the hobby than draw in.

dragonriversteel,
Please spare us the drama, ok? This hobby has always had a "high end" dating back to Lionel and Ives "standard gauge". Back in 1981, brass locos were many times more expensive than Athearn, Atlas, etc. Didn't stop you from joining and enjoying the hobby then, did it? Then why would a $237 loco prevent anyone from enjoying the hobby today? There's plenty of Athearn, P1K, Trainman (etc.) models around...and that's not counting the auction site and others where one can shop around and get a good deal.

It bugs me when people whine about the high cost of high end models. You don't like them? Don't buy them. Simple as that.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

Paul,I suspect a lot more quits after seeing the price tags..Sorry Paul..Your way off base and not seeing the big picture..
I expected you to answer the way you did though LOL!.[:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

With computers and internet cheaper than they used to be, an increasing number of people own computers, and have internet. And where do many turn for advice in starting the hobby? You got it...our forums.

If there's anything that makes me want to leave this forum and quit the hobby forever, it's some of the posts on this forum. I admit, I'm a nitpicker for weathering and polls(However, I am now ignoring polls-better for everyone), but I never go after users the way some of you do. "HELLLO, IM A NEW MEMBERR. I NED HELP WITH TRIANS." The first thing I see is "Turn off the darn caps!" and "Spell correctly!" And, if someone asks a question about a locomotive, say, a Life-Like GP38, it's always "Life-Like's suck! Get a P2K or Atlas or some other model that will clean your wallet out, so you can't by layout materials!" If the user has a question, just answer it.

Matt, surprisingly still posting on this forum.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Well, as far as Kalmbach is concerned it's certainly proven a failure. When the program was initiated Kalmbach's goal was to gain something like 7,000 new readers over the life of the program. So far, they've lost about 12,000 readers, which doesn't suggest that the program has been all that effective to me. Likewise, regarding the "booming" train shows, save for just a couple of the really big ones, there are dramatically less and less of them every year if you just bother to consult the show listings. But with regard to the growth (or otherwise) of the hobby, the dreamers dream on.

CNJ831

Hey CNJ831, we should me some time by one of the coffee stations. I've worked at Kalmbach over 12 years and I've never seen you here. Who are you? I can't believe we've never met around the building.

(Sarcasm over.)

Bergie

Just how big is the kalmbach publishing place? I'd love to go there

[RedGrey62]

Since we are getting on the subject of pricing, I will offer this. Two days ago, I was looking for something to read, since I have a PSP my wife bought before deploying, I picked up copy of a gamer magazine (truth is, it was one of 4 magazines available at the little base I was on). First of all, it cost 6 bucks, and not even close to what I get with my MR! The main article dealt with 5 things that threaten the game industry. Number one? Yep, high prices threatening to end the hobby. I actually laughed because it could have been taken straight from this forum and simply substitute games for trains.

And on the note of prices versus quality, many of us have not so fond recollections of certain manufacturers. But AT THE TIME, we were quite happy with what we had. Not until we went looking to expand our oval empires did we discover the other stuff that we swear by now. Who are we to say that someone will be disappointed with brand X, maybe they'll be very happy at just seeing a train run. Then they will be happier when they add a turnout, then a building, then some trees, people or a mountain. Then as they do some research and find a prototype that they want to model, or base their railroad off of, that's when they start looking at items with more fidelity and performance.

Crawl, walk, run. We want to impart our wisdom and experience on someone who is crawling. When they take our advice and shell out $200+ for the latest loco with all the bells and whistles, will they really enjoy what it has to offer? Or will they end up frustrated and out of the hobby? If someone can only afford a 20 dollar engine and some 3 dollar cars, we can offer advice on how to maintain and operate the equipment in such a way that will maximize the enjoyment. I quickly learned that most of the problems I had with the horn hook coupler was with my trackwork and not the coupler. After running out to replace everything with Kadees, I found I still had problems, 50 bucks worth of Kadees didn't solve all the problems!

Rick

[Paul3]

Gimme a break, Brakie and davekelly. Yeah, how dare we offer our hard earned opinion on what is junk is what is not. Gosh and golly.

How many people leave this hobby early because they listened to people like you two that said a piece of junk is a fine model? And when the darn thing won't go, stops working after a loop or two, won't stay on the track, or pull worth a darn, said newbie thinks that if this is good stuff, this whole hobby is worthless and quits... What then, Brakie & davekelly?

El cheapo junky engines and equipment, IMHO, drive more people out of the hobby than draw in.

dragonriversteel,
Please spare us the drama, ok? This hobby has always had a "high end" dating back to Lionel and Ives "standard gauge". Back in 1981, brass locos were many times more expensive than Athearn, Atlas, etc. Didn't stop you from joining and enjoying the hobby then, did it? Then why would a $237 loco prevent anyone from enjoying the hobby today? There's plenty of Athearn, P1K, Trainman (etc.) models around...and that's not counting the auction site and others where one can shop around and get a good deal.

It bugs me when people whine about the high cost of high end models. You don't like them? Don't buy them. Simple as that.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Bob,

I agree with you on your point about a new comer wanting a high end model. But how many times have we seen a new comer say he just bought a Bachmann spectrum just to be met with numerous cries of "junk" and "if you really want to do the hobby correctly you need to get a couple of BLI steamers and a XYZ $500 DCC system cause it can be expanded later." Sometimes the biggest discouragment some new folks get is from us.

HEAR HEAR! Whistling,stomping of feet standing ovation.[:D]
You are 100% correct!!

[davekelly]

Bob,

I agree with you on your point about a new comer wanting a high end model. But how many times have we seen a new comer say he just bought a Bachmann spectrum just to be met with numerous cries of "junk" and "if you really want to do the hobby correctly you need to get a couple of BLI steamers and a XYZ $500 DCC system cause it can be expanded later." Sometimes the biggest discouragment some new folks get is from us.

[Anonymous]

If your gonna go on prices, then check out some of the prices for trains down under!
$53 US For an Athearn SD9!
Makes it just a bit more harder to be in the hobby
Alexander

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonriversteel
The new comers to this hobby must have freaked out over the start up cost , thinking hmmmm wow a DCC locomotive with all the bells and whistles $237.00, thats such a bargain.

I'm curious why you would assume a newcomer to the hobby would need or even want such a high end model? There are many engines out there, including those in the crappy train sets. Some train sets are decent, and I wouldn't hesitate to suggest one of the Athearn sets (if they are still available).

I'm interested in photography, but certainly wouldn't suggest to someone wanting to take photos that they need a high megapixel camera with a image stabilizing telephoto lens costing several thousand dollars. Same as with modeling - start small and work up to what you want or are interested in.

Bob Boudreau

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lburnside

Oh and former MR staffers don't have any axes to grind!!!! I am sure all the information they funnel you is TOTALLY accurate and with NO prejudice. You still have NO proof to back up your numbers. Unless you are willing to name your sources!

Iburnside - The 7,000 new readers goal may be based only on what I was told by a former staffer but I believe him to be quite honest. If MR had no such new readers goal associated with their part in WGH, I'm sure Bergie can say so and I'll gladly retract that part of my statement. However, there's no contesting the 12,000 subscriber loss in just the last 3 years, nor the 50,000+ reader decline over the past 12 years, as these are MR's own published numbers...there's no arguing with them.

CNJ831

[dragonriversteel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigBlueConrail

The WGH campaign is not working. Sadly in 50 years, I believe there will be too few people in the hobby to have mass produced models. I have tried to get others in the hobby but nobody seems to have an interest that will last. Today, people like video games, R/C stuff and other things. I also believe prices of equipment are to high for more people to become a model railroader as I just ordered my third Atlas 8-40cw. As model railroaders we should do somthing ourselves to keep this hobby alive.

Bigblue,

I couldn't agree with you more...however I'd like to add some more thoughts to your statement.

The new comers to this hobby must have freaked out over the start up cost , thinking hmmmm wow a DCC locomotive with all the bells and whistles $237.00, thats such a bargain. I could go on about how they must look at the hobby now days, but I've been a MR for well over 25 years. Thinking back to when I started out, the hobby hasn't really changed all that much, with the exception of the model train makers and either their greed or wanting to better the hobby. Still haven't figured that one out. Yes ,I know their out to make a buck.

The younger generation or those just starting out ,how can they afford to purchase these new models. Only if they were born with cash flowing out of their noses or work their butts off to get these models.
I'm not going to get into economics or the fact of gas prices also driving up the cost of model railroading. What I will say is this very simple sentence : If the model railroad manufactors ,don't wake up and smell their own poop that they have created, there's not going to be anymore suckers to milk from.

I really hope that this hobby campaign is doing some sort of good, but I feel the fact of the matter is greed is killing the hobby.

Patrick
Beaufort,SC
Dragon River Steel Corp {DRSC}

[SpaceMouse]

I don't know about WGH campaign, but we have gained members at our club on a consistent basis. We now have 3 kids under 10, and 2 under 20--one of which is a teenage girl. All joined within the last year.

[BigBlueConrail]

The WGH campaign is not working. Sadly in 50 years, I believe there will be too few people in the hobby to have mass produced models. I have tried to get others in the hobby but nobody seems to have an interest that will last. Today, people like video games, R/C stuff and other things. I also believe prices of equipment are to high for more people to become a model railroader as I just ordered my third Atlas 8-40cw. As model railroaders we should do somthing ourselves to keep this hobby alive.

[ReimanTrainfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Well, as far as Kalmbach is concerned it's certainly proven a failure. When the program was initiated Kalmbach's goal was to gain something like 7,000 new readers over the life of the program. So far, they've lost about 12,000 readers, which doesn't suggest that the program has been all that effective to me. Likewise, regarding the "booming" train shows, save for just a couple of the really big ones, there are dramatically less and less of them every year if you just bother to consult the show listings. But with regard to the growth (or otherwise) of the hobby, the dreamers dream on.

CNJ831

Hey CNJ831, we should me some time by one of the coffee stations. I've worked at Kalmbach over 12 years and I've never seen you here. Who are you? I can't believe we've never met around the building.

(Sarcasm over.)

Bergie

I don't need to be in the building to hear about stuff that's transpired at MR. There are former MR employees out there quite willing to talk about such matters.

And, by the way, just exactly how does MR explain the loss of 12,000 readers since WGH began and the incredible total of 50,000+ readers dropping the magazine over the past dozen year if things are so rosy? Does MR have a reasonable explanation to offer, or will this thread now just suddenly disappear?

CNJ831

Oh and former MR staffers don't have any axes to grind!!!! I am sure all the information they funnel you is TOTALLY accurate and with NO prejudice. You still have NO proof to back up your numbers. Unless you are willing to name your sources!

[Bill54]

I don't believe the hobby is on the decline. I for one am new to the hobby since January this year. I know, at least on this fourm, there have been lots of new faces since I joined.

I've been to four shows this year. Two have been the WGH shows, both of which had good attendence. The first of which was in January where people were elbow to elbow.

Another thing that I feel is helping to attract people is the new technology within the hobby. With the advent of DCC making it easier to build and operate a layout it is much more appealing than it use to be.

I don't believe you will have to resort to scratch building anything these days for lack of a product. However, some of the scratch built things I've seen are hundreds of times better than the store bought products!

Bill

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Well, as far as Kalmbach is concerned it's certainly proven a failure. When the program was initiated Kalmbach's goal was to gain something like 7,000 new readers over the life of the program. So far, they've lost about 12,000 readers, which doesn't suggest that the program has been all that effective to me. Likewise, regarding the "booming" train shows, save for just a couple of the really big ones, there are dramatically less and less of them every year if you just bother to consult the show listings. But with regard to the growth (or otherwise) of the hobby, the dreamers dream on.

CNJ831

Hey CNJ831, we should me some time by one of the coffee stations. I've worked at Kalmbach over 12 years and I've never seen you here. Who are you? I can't believe we've never met around the building.

(Sarcasm over.)

Bergie

I don't need to be in the building to hear about stuff that's transpired at MR. There are former MR employees out there quite willing to talk about such matters.

And, by the way, just exactly how does MR explain the loss of 12,000 readers since WGH began and the incredible total of 50,000+ readers dropping the magazine over the past dozen year if things are so rosy? Does MR have a reasonable explanation to offer, or will this thread now just suddenly disappear?

CNJ831

[MAbruce]

How long has this program been going?

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Well, as far as Kalmbach is concerned it's certainly proven a failure. When the program was initiated Kalmbach's goal was to gain something like 7,000 new readers over the life of the program. So far, they've lost about 12,000 readers, which doesn't suggest that the program has been all that effective to me. Likewise, regarding the "booming" train shows, save for just a couple of the really big ones, there are dramatically less and less of them every year if you just bother to consult the show listings. But with regard to the growth (or otherwise) of the hobby, the dreamers dream on.

CNJ831

Hey CNJ831, we should me some time by one of the coffee stations. I've worked at Kalmbach over 12 years and I've never seen you here. Who are you? I can't believe we've never met around the building.

(Sarcasm over.)

Bergie