T-Grid Ceilings in Train Room, Why?

[MIKE0659]

We used a drop ceiling (T-Grid) in the basement to keep the dust down (Or up, to be more correct.), since we found in the past that the overhead joists and other stuff up there tend to drop dust just from normal movement upstairs. We also wanted access to pipes and wires up there just in case. And you can't believe how much brighter the room will be with that white ceiling overhead.

We love the drop ceiling for many reason, but found after a few years that it also tended to snow very fine white dust over the railroad. We hadn't started scenery yet, but noticed it on the ties, rail and anything else left on the layout.

At first we really didn't make the connection between the dust and the seiling, but if bumper or moved for some other reason, we noticed the fine dust snowing down.

So we decided to do something about it. We got some water-based polyurethane (Less stink) and a few rollers from the local home improvement store to seal it up.

We painted two coats of the clear coat over the ceiling inside the lighting valance, which was all the ceiling over the railroad. It took only a short time to do, but was very much worth the effort. Since applying the clear coat a few years ago, we have had no snow on the railroad and our dust problem has been virtually eliminated.

So once again, a little effort and a small cost, with a good result that is paying long term benefits.

Man, it's the little things. Know what I mean?

[Anonymous]

THE one gentelman(?) building in the garage bay has the same configuration that I have avalible to me. The last resident did just what you were planning as to wall board on the ceilling. DON`T DO IT! I`ve had to rip out what he put in to make it right. All the upper plumbing was underneath and he also dropped a pipe thru the wallboard and mudded right around it. Plan accordingly! Plan for sweaty pipes(your good brass engine under one!),build the room! Rebuild the services if need be.
LATER!

[Tilden]

I used half a two car garage for a layout once and installed a t-grid ceiling. Kept a lot of dust out, reflected light better and made the garage space warmer. Definitely improved the overall enviroment.

[ericboone]

I was planning on doing a hard ceiling because I want to put a valance over my top deck. Around the edge of the room, I can simply support is with cantilevered beams from the wall like the layout levels. However, the center peninsula would be a challenge as the top level of the penisula deck will not have a dividing backdrop from which I could cantilever beams from to support the valance. The traditional design of a drop ceiling would have made that very difficult. However, the CeilingMax product helps solve that. It appears to be only about an inch thick, meaning I can simply put holes through the tiles to access the joist to anchor my valances. The product web site is http://www.acpideas.com/index.cfm?XlinkID=13 Does anyone know the approximate price per square foot?

EDIT: I was poking around the web some more and found this product that is supposed to be equivalent to but 40% cheaper than CeilingMax, CeilingLink. http://www.kensa.com/ They say for 2 x 2 grids, its about $0.75 a square foot. Thus CeilingMax must be aroung $1.25 a square foot.

[BR60103]

For those of us with no professional construction experience, the grid ceiling is more do-able, especially with only a single person. I'll admit that mine have a few waves in them, but they do the job.
My current house has a tile ceiling done by the previous owner. I've no way of knowing what's up there and I don't know how to pull a bit off to look into it. I can't even get in to add an electric circuit or two.

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Surfstud31

Zak - what I mean is you will hear a thousand different opinions in this forum. In the end, unless you are going to do something outright wrong or dumb, it usually boils down to personal preference. I personally don't like drop ceilings unless there is a bad ceiling above it or exposed utilities. A hundred other guys will tell you I'm wrong. In the end, it's up to you. Hope you'll have pics to show when you're done [8D]

Pics!?! heck this puppy will be the the magazine! (if you're going to dream--dream big)

Honestly I have no Idea what I'm going to do. I won't be starting this project until next summer anyway. This topic just came to mind, and I'm just trying to look at the whole picture here. It's like building a house: the roof go on after the floor.

[Anonymous]

Zak - what I mean is you will hear a thousand different opinions in this forum. In the end, unless you are going to do something outright wrong or dumb, it usually boils down to personal preference. I personally don't like drop ceilings unless there is a bad ceiling above it or exposed utilities. A hundred other guys will tell you I'm wrong. In the end, it's up to you. Hope you'll have pics to show when you're done [8D]

[rrgrassi]

Don't forget, the drop ceiling also gives an undocumented, added feature...Cat Food! Your cats will love it, as it gives mice a new hiding and run area, as service guys like plumbers and electricians, and IT guys like myself can tell you, so that means more droppings to fall onto your layout when ever you want to change lighting, etc.

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Surfstud31

Zak - sounds like a good idea to me. I suppose it's personal preference in the end. Good luck!

Well, I don't know. If I had it set in stone I would have kept it to myself and not pose the question. I'm too new in this hobby to know what's best. I'm more excited to finally have a "layout room" to know any better. You guys should know best-- the pros and cons and all.

[Anonymous]

Zak - sounds like a good idea to me. I suppose it's personal preference in the end. Good luck!

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FrankClark

If your house is under construction now, don't forget to insulate the garage walls. Most builders won't do it, nor will they insulate the garage ceiling below unoccupied space above the garage. As your garage ceiling is about 12 feet, you may consider having your contractor installing the wall, and then install 2 X 10 ceiling joists to create a ceiling for drywall at a normal room-height of 8 +/- feet. The contractor may then eliminate the normal drywall ceiling at the 12 -foot level. For nominal cost, you could then add an attic drop-down stair, lay some plywood above the joists, and have a ready-made attic for storage. A BIG plus when the "space allocator" (spouse) is complaining that the railroad takes up a lot of room. By ready access to the ceiling from the attic, you can install fixtures, facia anchors, etc. Don't forget to insulate the ceiling, and add heat to the room. Check with your contractor on some trade-offs, but if you are building a house, you won't have the time to build a room anytime soon. Better to "pay-da-man" now, while he can do the grunt work and save your energy for designing and building the layout. It also gets all the messy & dusty stuff out of the way.

Frank,

Good point, but I am Da-man. I will be building the house through the company that I work for, but I can't have the room built before inspections or they'll call it living space. Once the house is complete, I will go in and stand up the wall and install a man door. My father was a Drywall/Framer so I was taught the trades and will do all the work on the room myself, and that is good for cost.

Now I did not think about using the space above for a storage. In California nowadays most of the garages are drywalled but not insulated. It doesn't get that cold here but it does get hot, so maybe insulation might just be a good idea. I was going to leave the ceiling height alone due to cost but maybe I will think about it once again.

Last, though I am going to great measures to create this room, but this isn't my dream house, and I'm sure that 5 or so years down the road we just might be moving into something bigger, so I don't want to be doing all kinds of modifications to this garage, for I just might have to return it to a 3 car garage with it comes time to move on. A T-Grid ceiling would be easy to take down too.

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Surfstud31

Unless you have an unfinished ceiling, i am not really sure why anyone would go thru the trouble and expense of adding a drop ceiling. I considered it briefly to try and deaden sound to upstairs (my trainroom is below bedroom). But I think acoustic foam on the ceiling would work better as a sound barrier.

Just my 2 cents.

The reason that I'm thinking about installing a drop ceiling is because I want to do the whole "shadow box" look and to do that I don't really want my fascia to run all the way up to a 12 foot ceiling. That would look strange. But on the other hand how do I attach the fascia to the T-Grid ceiling for support? Right now I'm thinking that I'm just going to build a box frame over the layout to hold lights and the fascia board, add a thin sheet of plywood on top, and use it for displays. That way I won't need to use a T-Grid ceiling and save a little cost.

Is this a good idea?

[Anonymous]

If your house is under construction now, don't forget to insulate the garage walls. Most builders won't do it, nor will they insulate the garage ceiling below unoccupied space above the garage. As your garage ceiling is about 12 feet, you may consider having your contractor installing the wall, and then install 2 X 10 ceiling joists to create a ceiling for drywall at a normal room-height of 8 +/- feet. The contractor may then eliminate the normal drywall ceiling at the 12 -foot level. For nominal cost, you could then add an attic drop-down stair, lay some plywood above the joists, and have a ready-made attic for storage. A BIG plus when the "space allocator" (spouse) is complaining that the railroad takes up a lot of room. By ready access to the ceiling from the attic, you can install fixtures, facia anchors, etc. Don't forget to insulate the ceiling, and add heat to the room. Check with your contractor on some trade-offs, but if you are building a house, you won't have the time to build a room anytime soon. Better to "pay-da-man" now, while he can do the grunt work and save your energy for designing and building the layout. It also gets all the messy & dusty stuff out of the way.

[Anonymous]

Unless you have an unfinished ceiling, i am not really sure why anyone would go thru the trouble and expense of adding a drop ceiling. I considered it briefly to try and deaden sound to upstairs (my trainroom is below bedroom). But I think acoustic foam on the ceiling would work better as a sound barrier.

Just my 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

I am currently constructing a building for a railroad and it has a grid ceiling. After reading all the above, it looks as though I finally made a good decision!

As to the compact (screw-in) fluorescents, I love them and have them throughout my house. When an old hot-wire bulb dies, a CF replaces it due to the long life, good color rendering, brightness, low heating, low current consumption, and several other advantages. They are temperature sensitive and require some air circulation around the base where the electronics are to avoid shortened life, so make sure your light cans are vented. Note well that you will pay considerable extra to get dimmable units.

[Anonymous]

Another thought I have not seen posted is to use insulation in between the joist to reduce sound transfer between floors. It also catches the dust on top of the insulation. Then paint everything from ceiling height up a flat black. You can easily see and work on anything in the ceiling. Cost is minimal. This method is often used in restaurants, etc.

[Anonymous]

Hi CWN3, I purchased my CeilingMax at Home Depot and Menards. I waited till Menards had the fill the bag and get 17% off. I saved lots on the plastic ties and cross ties. I purchased my tiles on sale. Even though I used 24 75W daylight halogens in recessed cans,Looks very good. I'm able to control the lght intensity well. Full bright it is like an operating room. Sometimes you need that extra light when working. Room usually is cool year round and have not found any problems with the heat yet. My ceilng height is 8ft.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by air4mdc

I just recently finished my drop ceiling in my 15X27 layout room. I used CeilingMax'es drop ceiling. The plastic tracks screw right to the joists and the tiles snap in the tracks. Using this method I did not loose the three inches or so I would on a conventional metal frame suspension that is wired up.

Hello everyone
I'm planning an 11' x 24' layout in my basement which only has an 82" ceiling, so this CeilingMax'es design really appeals to me. I did a google but came up empty, could you let me know where you got it?

[Anonymous]

I had been pondering that for about a year. I opted for hard celing because I want a lighting facia that will be almost completely curved and I have no idea how you would attach that to a grid celing. I am lucky that I don't have realy anything, plumbing, etc, in the area.
Jim Petro

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by air4mdc

I just recently finished my drop ceiling in my 15X27 layout room. I used CeilingMax'es drop ceiling. The plastic tracks screw right to the joists and the tiles snap in the tracks. Using this method I did not loose the three inches or so I would on a conventional metal frame suspension that is wired up. I installed 24 75W daylight halogen in recessed cans on three dimmer circuits. The ceiling looks awesome. Easy access to everything such as wiring and plumbing. I also used the recessed 2X2 tiles. Cost for ceiling about $800-1000. Yes drywall would have been cheaper, but more work, not accesible and if you ever have a leak or need access it could be a big pain in the butt and a mess. I also insulated the ceiling to cut down on noise too. I also waited for these items to come on sale before purchasing. The only drawback would be the heat from the 75W halogens if you stood directly underneath one and your height was about 6' 3" or more. The basement is always cooler here in the midwest so heat from the lamps is not an issue. Although 1800W on the meter might be an issue.

Hi,
I was just emailing a forum member who had responded to one of my questions and he suggested that instead of regular light bulbs or halogens, which generate a lot of heat, you can use those "curly" bulbs that look like squigley flourescent lights. They produce the equivilent of 75 watts using only around 25 watts....in other words you would cut your electric bill by two thirds and get the same amount of light and without all that heat. Trust me, you're current arrangement is going to heat your room.

Hope this helps.
Mondo

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by clif_nmra

Another reason:
Half of my basement has drop in grid, the other half is a finished recreation room with a finished ceiling.

The problem is that I have squeeks in the flooring above. I can get under the drop in to fix this problem but there is no way I can get to the other half of the floor....other than to try and drill through the finished upper finished wood floor and hoping I hit a joist underneath.-

use a stud finder!

[douginut]

T-Grid!
your fascia can also be suspended with the same ceiling wires as the grid work. the wires blackened. They will tend to dissappear.
In place of Halogens and their high heat and power consumption. Try the compact flourescents in pots or in the interior spotlight form.
also if you wreck one if the panels it is about 5 bucks for another.

Doug, in Utah

[clif_nmra]

Another reason:
Half of my basement has drop in grid, the other half is a finished recreation room with a finished ceiling.

The problem is that I have squeeks in the flooring above. I can get under the drop in to fix this problem but there is no way I can get to the other half of the floor....other than to try and drill through the finished upper finished wood floor and hoping I hit a joist underneath.-

[Anonymous]

I just recently finished my drop ceiling in my 15X27 layout room. I used CeilingMax'es drop ceiling. The plastic tracks screw right to the joists and the tiles snap in the tracks. Using this method I did not loose the three inches or so I would on a conventional metal frame suspension that is wired up. I installed 24 75W daylight halogen in recessed cans on three dimmer circuits. The ceiling looks awesome. Easy access to everything such as wiring and plumbing. I also used the recessed 2X2 tiles. Cost for ceiling about $800-1000. Yes drywall would have been cheaper, but more work, not accesible and if you ever have a leak or need access it could be a big pain in the butt and a mess. I also insulated the ceiling to cut down on noise too. I also waited for these items to come on sale before purchasing. The only drawback would be the heat from the 75W halogens if you stood directly underneath one and your height was about 6' 3" or more. The basement is always cooler here in the midwest so heat from the lamps is not an issue. Although 1800W on the meter might be an issue.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

I priced out a just the materials for a drop ceiling in my new 30x30 basement, and almost gagged! I've come up with a MUCH cheaper, easier to install, and almost as user-friendly alternative. Instead of either a drop or hard ceiling, I've created a 2'x4' section gridwork in the ceiling (made of 2x2s), to support 2x4 chunks of 1/2" drywall. I'll seal the raw edges of the drywall, paint the panels ceiling white, and screw them to the grid. I'll end up with removeable panels for a dressed ceiling, at a fraction of the cost of a drop ceiling. It may look a little unconventional with all the screw heads exposed, but I'm willing to make that compromise to save myself well over $1000!

It might be cheaper if you use 1"X3" strapping and make the same type of T grid as you would use on drop ceilings! then all you have to do is stain or paint the grid and you will not have screws showing.

[Texas Zepher]

Our club just installed one about two years back. There were three reasons.
1. Cut the amount of dirt and dust sifting through the floor above (in this case unsealed concrete). Some thought this would help our dirty track problem - Ha!
2. Air conditioning plenum <sp?>. The space between the real ceiling and the drop ceiling is where the in-room portable air conditioners vent hot air, which is drawn then off by another fan and exhausted to the outside of the building. In our case this also separates the layout from the heating steam pipes which were running through our ceiling space. In the winter those pipes (even though they were insulated) really put out some heat. It was always hotter in the layout room in the winter than it was in the summer time.
3. We used the t-grid frame work to install better lighting. We now have work lights, show lights, and effect lights.

[grayfox1119]

STRIPES2 You make a great point. When people have the "option" of using one basement space or another, utilities location overhead, ESPECIALLY drains and feed water lines are a PRIME consideration. ALWAYS use the free space overhead WHEN you can. If this is NOT an option, and you must use a space where there are overhead utilities, take every precaution to protect the layout from leaks, etc. Sometimes, it is possible to re-route the plumbing using plastic drain pipes, but if you need to do this, make sure you have someone do this that is experienced so that regulations and codes are followed.

ORSONROY Ray has a great idea for cost savings. If money to do a large overhead suspended ceiling is a show stopper, his idea is great and will will work just fine. Overhead lighting is easier to move around on a metal grid ceiling as FERGIE stated, so please keep that in mind when you make your decision.

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by stripes2

Let me play devils advocate here! As a trades person (plumber), I have gone into thousands of basements. Yes drop ceilings are important as far as getting to utilities
(pipes,wires etc...) BUT please guys think about these things before you choose the placement of your layout! Is it under a water line in the ceiling? What happens if the pipe breaks? I do not know how many times I & other trades people have spent hours just trying to get to the problem! Try to imagine some electrician or plumber who could care less about your trains, having to set up a ladder and work over your layout.
I did an estimate yesterday to instal a bathroom in the basement. I could not even get good measurements because of all the junk stored in there!
Anyway, just something to think about.
David

Great point Dave, I used to work for a water damage clean up company, and I tell you what, some of the crap that I saw after the damage was done was horific. Most of them were when families would go on vacation and a pipe would brake and flood the house. Some that had basements woud ruin everything is site. So I couldn't imagine what it would do to someones layout. Makes me what to cry. Good thing for me that my layout will be in the garage where there isn't any piping. Plus I will have a hard lid of drywall already installed.

My biggest question is: If I do a fascia board around the top of my layout for the box effect, how would I attach it to the drop ceiling? The only thing that I can think of is to frame the fascia wall all the way to the ceiling and run my T-grid up to it.

[orsonroy]

I priced out a just the materials for a drop ceiling in my new 30x30 basement, and almost gagged! I've come up with a MUCH cheaper, easier to install, and almost as user-friendly alternative. Instead of either a drop or hard ceiling, I've created a 2'x4' section gridwork in the ceiling (made of 2x2s), to support 2x4 chunks of 1/2" drywall. I'll seal the raw edges of the drywall, paint the panels ceiling white, and screw them to the grid. I'll end up with removeable panels for a dressed ceiling, at a fraction of the cost of a drop ceiling. It may look a little unconventional with all the screw heads exposed, but I'm willing to make that compromise to save myself well over $1000!