Train Room Electrical Requirements

[Leon Silverman]

My train room was passed and was issued a Certificate of Occupancy. My outlet spacing did not exceed 12 feet between locations, not four feet. This is in a free standing garage (not sealed and weather proof. The circuits are GFI protected, but this requires only that the first outlet from the circuit protector box be GFI equipped. Outlets further away from the box are standard use types.

[howmus]

A site I often visit for figuring out what resistors and power requirements are needed in the hobby is an Ohms Law calculator. Here is one: http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/ohms_law/ohmslawcalculator.html

[Anonymous]

Just a note for people. An 8 amp DCC power booster only uses 1.5 amps at 120 VAC. The 8 amps that is listed is for the working voltage (about 21v) A 5 amp DCC power booster uses 1 amp at 120 VAC.

I only point this out so people don’t think they need a 20 amp circuit for two (2) 8 amp DCC power boosters. If anyone is interested, I'll post the formulas up for figuring out power. The main is as easy as PIE. P = I * E
P = Power (Watts)
I = current (Amps)
E = Voltage

[claycts]

Mondo, the whole thing starts at the box:
15 amp breaker is 14 Gauge wire. Limit is the breaker/wire.
20 amp is (6) duplex (wall plugs) per circuits max. You have 15 amp you are down to (4) max. YOU MUST design for a 125% load factor.
Lights on a 15 amp ckt are normal, not great but normal.
The load is greatest at start up of anything including a light bulb.
To "CHEAT" pull out ALL light bulbs abd change to compact flourscent bulbs. These take way less power and run cool.
Strip flouerscents are bad news period:
(1) White noise from the non electronic ballast
(2) Power comsumption
(3) 60 cycle flicker (evere get a head ache under those lights?)
(4) poor color
I went to LV (low voltage) strip lights and Malibu lights (out side lights off a transformer) using the spot lights they make. They are great o for accent and general lights.
I tried a halogen bar, great to KEEP FOOD WARM to HOT.
I used rope lights as a dimmed lighting effect, cheap and low power required.
These tricks allow you to use the smaller circuits and wire.
I am adding a 100 amp MLO sub panel to feed just the trains. In english I am putting a 2 pole 100 amp breaker in my main panel, running wire to the sub panel which is MLO (Main Lug Only) then putting my breakers in that box for the trains. I will have (3) 20 amp and (2) 15 amp breakers to handle the loads.
Our requirements are for (1) DCS100 at 5 amps (5) DB150 at 5 amps each, 31 plug in power packs mostley 1500 ma. The total space is 1800 sq ft so there are lots of lights etc.
Sorry for the ramble but I felt i should tell you what I based my reply on.

[Fergmiester]

Don't forget the outlet for the beer cooler!

[Anonymous]

I don't know the codes specifically on what is or what isn't a temporary light or not, but if I were you I would hardwire your new fixtures to their own circuit to meet code. Does anybody know specific codes about temp flourescent fixtures? I don't think I would string a bunch of them together to one outlet but I don't see a problem with hooking two of them up as that's what they are designed for....

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Seamonster

Mondo, those flourescent fixtures are against code. They are permanently attached to the house, so they can't be operated on an extension cord. You can't mix permanent and portable. If they are going to stay, get an electrician to wire them in properly.

As to the wall outlet "supporting 15 amps." Yes, outlets are rated to carry 15 amps of current. BUT.....How many amps is the entire circuit carrying? How many plugs are attached to the same breaker in the panel? The breaker will be rated at 15 amps, so that is the total current that can be drawn from that one circuit. So, if you've got other plugs on that circuit that have things plugged into them and if you have room lights on that same circuit, they all can't add up to more than 15 amps or you'll trip the breaker.

Hope this helps. Don't want to see you "playing with fire." And what Nigel said about permits and inspections--BELIEVE IT! When I did my basement years ago I checked with my insurance company and was told flat out that if a fire originated in the basement wiring and I didn't have a permit and inspection, they'd pretend they didn't know me.

Hi Bob,
I really appreciate your response to my question. However, I think I should have been clearer about the flourescent light fixtures that I mounted to the ceiling. I'm not sure they should be considered permanent because they hang on 2 brackets, one at each end and have cords with a 3-prong plug sticking out of the fixture, meant to be plugged into either a wall outlet or so I thought, an extension cord. They are really those "shop" lights that you can buy at Home Depot, etc. So, am I correct that they are really only temporary and therefore it's okay to string them together with extension cords?

I do recall my brother-in-law looking up at them (he retired from the electric company) and his only problem was that I hadn't used heavy-duty extension cords with 3 plugs, including a ground. He didn't mention the issue of having "permanent" lighting fixtures fed by extension cords.

I'm anxious to hear what you say because I was planning on reusing these light fixtures in the same way in my new train room, but probably adding several more due to the increased room size.


Thanks again,
Mondo

[grayfox1119]

If you go by the U.S. electrical code, you need one 20 amp receptacle every 4 feet of wall space, and if the room is in a wet location, or a basement, you need to have the outlets GFCI protected ( Ground Fault Circuit Interupt ). So measure your wall space, and determine how many outlets you will need. I like to have two circuits, one for trains and one for work bench area, both 20 amp circuits ( must be #12 guage wire )
Lighting circuits use far less power and require only #14 guage wire and a 15 amp circuit.

[Seamonster]

Mondo, those flourescent fixtures are against code. They are permanently attached to the house, so they can't be operated on an extension cord. You can't mix permanent and portable. If they are going to stay, get an electrician to wire them in properly.

As to the wall outlet "supporting 15 amps." Yes, outlets are rated to carry 15 amps of current. BUT.....How many amps is the entire circuit carrying? How many plugs are attached to the same breaker in the panel? The breaker will be rated at 15 amps, so that is the total current that can be drawn from that one circuit. So, if you've got other plugs on that circuit that have things plugged into them and if you have room lights on that same circuit, they all can't add up to more than 15 amps or you'll trip the breaker.

Hope this helps. Don't want to see you "playing with fire." And what Nigel said about permits and inspections--BELIEVE IT! When I did my basement years ago I checked with my insurance company and was told flat out that if a fire originated in the basement wiring and I didn't have a permit and inspection, they'd pretend they didn't know me.

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

Direct answer is:
(2) 20 amp ckts for power. (1) for trains, (1) for other
(2) 20 amp lighting ckts (1) room, (1) layout lights.
Why?
You can then turn off the breakers for the layout and layout lights to work on them SAFLEY.
A massive short will burn down your house, if you split the load you can turn off the power and still see or work or GET OUT.
Oh yes, I added (1) 20amp for the power equipment, compressor, drill press etc.
These where what we put in for the A&N. Works very well.
Take Care
George P.

Hi George,
I'm not to familiar with electrical issues and wondered if you could clarify? I have a power strip plugged into one of my wall outlets in my family room (train room) which I believe supports 15 amps. I then have my 4 power packs plugged into that power strip, allowing 4 operators of trains at one time. I wonder if there's a problem with 4 power packs plugged into one wall outlet?

Now, for the lighting. I had the contractor install 4 spotlights in the ceiling when the room was being finished. Each holds a 75 watt lightbulb. I know this was okay because I had the building inspector on my side because of the building permit. However, I've attached 5 flourescent light fixtures to the ceiling, running extension cords from one to the other and then they are all plugged into a wall outlet. Each fixture has 2 40-watt bulbs, so I have a total of 40 watts of flourescent bulbs running off of 1 wall outlet that I expect can handle 15 amps. Am I playing with fire here? I don't have any dedicated circuit for my flourescent lights unless you call a wall outlet a dedicated circuit.

Thanks,
Mondo

[fsm1000]

One thing I have done for years now, for my power tools, ALL of my computer stuff [huge by the way] and also my trains or ANY thing that is concentrated in one area that uses a lot of electricity.
What I do is use those power strips. I plug everything into a few power strips then plug them all in to one power strip. That way if something is gonna blow it will be the power strip.
Now this is where it gets good. If you use so much power as to trip the circuit in a power strip [check the rating, most are 15 amps] it is time to consider upgrading your power box and adding another circuit breaker. Also it is safer than having the wire in your walls blow on you.
Just an idea.

[nfmisso]

If you do NOT use flourescents, most of the power required in the layout room will be for lighting.

If you use track lighting, figure a circuit (15amp) for every eight bulbs (100W). This is because bulbs have a start up surge current far in excess of thier nominal rating, which can trip the breaker.

Also if you do not use flourescents, plan on a hefty increase in your air conditioning costs.

Any house wiring must be done with a permit, and inspected - or your insurance is voided, and you will not be able to sell your house. Get a permit, have it inspected and signed off - very very inexpensive compared to the alternatives. In the legal environment today, it is practically impossible to sell a house with improvements that are not on record (building/electrical permits on file). And going back after the fact involves penalties and fines.

[Anonymous]

unless you are gonna do electroplating just use the wall outlets in the room!

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nedthomas

or just put them on a heavy three wire plug. Useful for power tools etc. and you don't have to climb under the layout. If you don't like them on the face, attach them to a leg near the front and hide them with a curtain or whatever.

Very good advise. I have all the power for everything connected to the layout on a grounded heavy duty plug going into a wall outlet. Most all of the outlets on the layout itself are switchable (only exception are a couple outlets on the desk which is an old square grand piano and one set in the new part of the layout). When I want to work on electrical wiring, I simply pull the plug. I can still use the wall outlets to plug work lamps, etc. into while i work on the wiring. Anything that is hardwired back to the main electric box must be inspected in most localities according to code. That also means paying for a permit to change anything on those circuits. According to abn electrician friend of mine, it is completely legal and does not violate local codes (here) nor cause problems with insurance if it on an extention cord......

I actually have 3 different 20 amp circuits in the rooms where the layout is and 3 others in my workshop area of the basement. 2 of the 3 circuits also serve some other rooms (bedrooms) upstairs at the same time (its a 60 year old house). Even running a 6000 BTU airconditioner on one of those circuits as well as the digitrax equipment and some other electrical stuff hasn't tripped the breaker. I don't recommend to anyone that you should do that but just use it to serve as an example of how little current the layout actually takes to run. I have about 40 florescent lights over the layout that are an average of 10 watts each. That is around 400 watts. At 120 volts, that will draw a whopping 3.3 amps! My 25 watt soldering iron, .2 amps. The dremel moto tool..... well you get the idea. 2 or 3 20 amp circuits should meet all your needs for the trains and most anything else you are likely to need in the room (even a couple of electric heaters). One of the most important items is to have lots of electrical outlets scattered all over the room. In most localities, all new circuits that are below grade level must be GFI-protected. Even if it is not required, do it!

[nedthomas]

Wall outlets are good for starting, As the bench work is added consider adding outlets on the face of the layout. Hard wire to the wall outlets or just put them on a heavy three wire plug. Useful for power tools etc. and you don't have to climb under the layout. If you don't like them on the face, attach them to a leg near the front and hide them with a curtain or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Generrally speaking I agree with everyone above. I would add that one should allow room for expansion and addition no matter how many circuits you may have you will almost always be able to use one or two more and adding them at the beginning is MUCH cheaper and easier.
chuck

[tomikawaTT]

I see the power requirements for a layout, with enclosing room, breaking down into three "sets," each with several possible subsets:

1. "Vision" lighting - room lights, and railroad "daylight (dawn, dusk, night)" lighting.

2. Layout power - locomotive, switch machine, signal, structure lighting and animation.

3. Tool power, plug-in - saber saw, power drill, soldering gun, etc. (Not full workshop with fixed power tools. That should be a whole separate set of dedicated circuits.)

I have been lucky to have three separate circuits in the garage I'm using. Layout power is provided by the circuit originally meant for the garage door opener, room lighting is controlled from the built-in light switch and power tools plug into a GFI-protected circuit that also powers two never-used outdoor outlets. I may install another, separate, lighting circuit for layout mood lighting and floor lights (for footing visibility at steps) when I reach the point where they are necessary. So far, the existing circuits are nowhere near capacity.

On the other hand, the layout is nowhere near completion!

Chuck

[jamnest]

I recently built a new basement, with a house on top of it for my wife and to keep the rain off of the trains. I had the contractor install a dedicated 20 amp circuit for my layout power (Digitrax). My power circuit has a six-plex computer outlett with surge protector. This circuit has a cut off switch at the base of the stairs, so when I leave the layout room all power is off to the layout. In addition I had a 20 amp circuit for lighting. The electrician installed electrial outlets in the celing and I furnished shop lights. This will provide acess for future layout lighting needs. I also had additional electrical outlets installed around the room. I gave the electical contractor specific instructions concerning how high to place the outlets so they would not cause a problem with the around the walls benchwork. The cost was included in the electrical subcontract for the cost of building the house which was a flat dollar bid. My contractor did not conider these to be extras. I am not an electrical expert, but I do read MR and MR forum, and learn from other model railroaders. THANKS

[jrbernier]

My layout room is a 25' by 20' 'L' shaped area. I have a 20 amp circuit for the room that has two large lights and 6 wall outlets. I added another 20 amp circuit that has 6 more outlets for the trains, work bench. spray booth, and the layout lighting(11 flourescent fixtures). The trains really do not use up much power. I have 2 Digitrax 5 amp command stations/boosters, a 12VDC power supply for lighting, and more 'wall wart' power supplies than I can count.....

Jim

[claycts]

Direct answer is:
(2) 20 amp ckts for power. (1) for trains, (1) for other
(2) 20 amp lighting ckts (1) room, (1) layout lights.
Why?
You can then turn off the breakers for the layout and layout lights to work on them SAFLEY.
A massive short will burn down your house, if you split the load you can turn off the power and still see or work or GET OUT.
Oh yes, I added (1) 20amp for the power equipment, compressor, drill press etc.
These where what we put in for the A&N. Works very well.
Take Care
George P.

[MIKE0659]

I think what you mean is for the general electric service for the layout. The room lights, layout lighting and outlets.

First you have to know what the load is going to be. For that you will need to figure out the number of lights, wattage, etc.. Also the load for any other electrical usage. You might want to talk to someone who knows what they are doing there. There are electrical codes to be considered, even to the point of there are some limitations to the total wattage you can have in a given space (Or so I was told).


We had a friend do our installation. We started by putting a breaker in the main house panel for the railroad room. Then we put a 4 breaker sub-panel in the railroad room. We have the room lights on one breaker, the layout lighting on second, the outlets on a third, and the electronics on the fourth breaker. Additionally, we have the electronics installed in a cabinet and they are on good quality surge-protecter that also provides lightning protection. We figured we had a lot of money in the electronics, so the surge protector strip is cheap insurance.

The main reason we went so far is that if the railroad has a problem and causes a fire, everything is to code so there will be no insurance issues. I know, kind of worst case thinking, but that house is too valuable. Plus we have the railroad isolated for additional protection.

This paranoia was given to us by our buddy who did all this for us. He made good sense, so we went along. It didn't cost that much, but again, it is all cheap insurance. We flip those breakers off, and nothing gets left on. No soldering irons forgotten in the back corner, etc.

Check your local codes and have a professional do the work in the main panel (This message brought to you by the legal and insurance industries.).

[jeffshultz]

It depends on how many amps you plan on drawing - How many locomotives do you plan on being able to run simultaneously, and in what scale?

[shasta33]

I'm new to the hobby and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to the electrical requirements for a train room (number of circuits, amps for each circuit, etc.). Thanks in advance for any help you can give.