Handlaid Turnout talk.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjcrescent

But to me there are still two great advatages to handlaying your own turnouts :

1. You're not limited to what you can obtain commercially.
2. Probably the best reason, they are cheap compared to commercial trackwork. A #6 doubleslip can be built for around 3-5 bucks in materials. Try to buy a new one at that price.

I agree with #1, but have to take exception to #2. For those of us building smaller layouts (fewer than 18 turnouts) and who are considering building turnouts for the first time (don't already have the tools and jigs), the economic advantage goes to commercial turnouts. I'm sure there are those who can build one from scratch on their tabletob with no fixtures or jigs, but not us first-timers.

[fsm1000]

I have always laid my track on the layout. Although I have never tried to do it on the workbench I am sure it would work out well if you can get it like an assembly line, especially for larger yards and such. I have always had smaller layouts and so have never had a need for assemblies.
I would like to see pics of your technique though, and progress. [:)]
Stephen

[Anonymous]

I'll ditto cjcrescent's response.

If I handlay/scratchbuild my switches I can get what I want and my switchwork doesn't look like those "pretty boxes on the hillside pretty boxes made of ticky-tacky". If I want a #9.5 switch I can get a #9.5 switch = I sure as the dickens can't buy one that size. I haven't tried a slip switch - yet - but I do know that they cost beau-coup bucks and what I spend on switchwork is not being spent on rolling stock. Had a guy in a club I belonged to many years ago who had a #3.5 to the left and a #5.5 to the right. It was in industrial trackage and it looked terrific. That's the way the pros (prototypes) build em.

[fwright]

Carrfan

My track/turnouts is/are generally laid in a 2 night sequence.

The 1st night, I start with drawing on the Homasote where I want the track to go, as well as any special features such as location of headblock ties, turnout throw linkage, and under-the-ties uncoupling ramp. The space for the ramp is gouged out and the ramp installed, and if the hole for the turnout throw linkage is inside the tie lines, drill that too.

Then the ties are laid using a piano key jig for approximate spacing - I used diluted wood glue in the past, will try out matte medium in the future for further sound reduction. I do final alignment of the ties by eye and hand (use a large needle or pin) after setting the masking tape tie strip from the piano key jig in the wet glue. While the glue is still wet, I add ballast, and then leave things to dry overnight. Also part of the 1st night effort is brush painting the rail I think I will be needing with some Testor's dark brown paint. After painting I wipe the inside corner of the rail head with a rag, and leave the rail to dry.

The second evening, I sand the tie tops level, vacuum the dust and loose ballast, and restain as necessary. I then piece together the rail pieces I am going to need, and solder feeders, and file points and frogs. Small holes are drilled for the feeders to go through under the rails. A slot is cut for the throwbar. In the past, I did not worry about filing the frog angle exactly because I filled the frog with solder and used a hacksaw blade to saw out the flangeways. I am going to try getting the frogs much closer to final configuration with the rail filing, and use a lot less solder in my frog construction. After all is spiked and soldered in place, and the flangeways cleared and checked, then I touch up the rail as needed with the brown paint and a fine tipped brush, again wiping the inside railhead with a rag while the paint is wet.

Hope this helps
Fred W

[dinwitty]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

Thanks for your insight Fred. Very interesting.

I was thinking about painting a bunch of rail with a can of roof brown spray paint, because as you said, an airbrush would be a bit of a hassle.

When do you paint your frogs / switch points, etc.? After soldering them together?

My plans is that I make sure my trackwork runs right, maybe have a few run sessions making sure its reliable. When I feel satisfied everything is AOK, I go for ballast, painting rails, the whole shbang.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by fwright


4) I lay my ties, ballast, and paint the rail before laying any rail.

Fred,

I see you paint your rail before laying it. Then when do you solder feeder wires to it?

Do you remove small amounts of paint with laquer thinner?

I'd like to ballast and paint rails first also, so that I don't get any paint on the ties.

try this
http://www.joesmodeltrains.com//ho_scale_rusty_rails_painter.htm
im thinking of using this. im not going to handlay anything, but i might paint the ties grey and then use this.
GEARHEAD426
[8]

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your insight Fred. Very interesting.

I was thinking about painting a bunch of rail with a can of roof brown spray paint, because as you said, an airbrush would be a bit of a hassle.

When do you paint your frogs / switch points, etc.? After soldering them together?

[fwright]

I attach feeders before spiking rail in place. I scrape the paint on the base of the rail, and solder the feeder to the bottom of the rail. Anywhere I need to solder, I just scrape a little paint away, and touch up with a fine brush afterwards. Note that I brush, not spray on appropriate colored paint on the rail to begin with. Brushing a piece of rail in your hand is not difficult and much easier to clean up than an airbrush.

I use magnet wire, somewhere about 24-26 gauge. I can use very light wire because I don't use rail joiners so every rail has a feeder that ties into the bus which is run very nearby (feeders are less than 12" long). 26 gauge wire can be used safely for up to 1.8 amps. Some would argue that my wire is too light in the event of a short circuit - it depends upon the capacity of your power supply. Since I only need to support one train at a time, my power supplies are limited to 1.5 amps, and larger wire for a short run is not needed.

The same technique could be used on the outside of the rails with heavier feeders if you prefer.

The one change I will definitely make to my techniques is to use a rail bender to obtain consistent curves where needed. I would then trim the unbent end portions off and attempt butt soldering the rails on curves. The most difficult problem I had in the past was to obtain a kink-free rail joint on an 18" radius curve - this is my proposed counter.

regards
Fred W

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fwright


4) I lay my ties, ballast, and paint the rail before laying any rail.

Fred,

I see you paint your rail before laying it. Then when do you solder feeder wires to it?

Do you remove small amounts of paint with laquer thinner?

I'd like to ballast and paint rails first also, so that I don't get any paint on the ties.

[selector]

I just built a 24" long curved turnout using the straight #8 jig from Fast Tracks for the points and frog. I had to lay my flextrack to the point where I needed a unique turnout, and then began cutting and bending pieces of rail until they began to look like the turnout that would fit. When I was able to place them (no nails or glue) in such a position that they looked good and were reasonably close to being in gauge, I took it all to the bench and began to solder the rails to PC ties. When I needed to ensure that as section would be in gauge, I used a track gauge to hold the rails and pin them to the ties, at which point I zapped them with solder. Tricky, but it worked, and I am pleased to say that I got a double axled truck to glide throug both directions quite nicely.

This is a first for me, and was daunting, to say the least. But, I have put many hard hours into beautiful spline roadbed, and I was darned if I was going to rely on bashed commercial turnouts that were not meant to fit, and lose all those nice curves and easements in doing so.

-Crandell

[Don Gibson]

BUILD it on your workbench.
INSTALL it on the layout

[dinwitty]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

I'm considering handlaying mine on the bench, rather than on the layout. This way I could build several at once, essentially stock them for when they're needed on a future layout.

I'm been experimenting with Lauan plywood (3/16" thick), and it's been perfect for spiking so far. Each turnout will be spiked to its own piece of wood roadbed, then installed somewhat like that easy track stuff.

The idea would then be I could make a bunch of #6's, etc., but then make any custom one when needed.

Has anyone built them on the bench this way with the spiking method? I know people are of course doing that with the PC ties method, especially, with the cool jigs now available.

I visited the Pasadena Model Railroad Club years ago, and a guy was building a turnout in the club lounge area - I wasn't as interested in the subject at the time, so I didn't ask him what their technique was.

I'm now thinking about handlaid turnouts, flextrack everywhere else. At my current pace, I'm getting nowhere fast, well, not even fast, actually!

I think I have found I can make a turnout maybe in an hour, it isnt fast and it dont need to be.

[dinwitty]

This is all built in place on the ties.
There is no specific #6 turnout, etc, its radius based and just work it in, but standard switches are used as basis to get the turnout design down.
Yes, spiking.
I decided I will use branded turnouts for the detail and if I have a custom need I will build it.
My first turnout build was a doubleslip because the price for a branded was prohibitive.
I like how you can fit a turnout anywhere and it works tho.

[fwright]

Have to go against the thread here - I lay my turnouts on site for the following reasons:

1) my layout is cleaner than my workbench; the latter gets used for a lot of non-MR projects
2) The only PC board in my turnouts is the the throwbar - everything is spiked into wood ties. So unless I move the roadbed and turnout as a unit, I have no easy way to transport the turnout back and forth.
3) One of my most important reasons for hand-laying track in the 1st place is how obvious the joint between flex track and turnouts is on most layouts. Building turnouts separately on the bench puts me right back in this situation.
4) I lay my ties, ballast, and paint the rail before laying any rail.
5) The difference between what I measure and what I produce is often significant - I'm just not a craftsman like the rest of you. Therefore the chances of a turnout fabricated elsewhere fitting the site properly are not good.

That said, I've never had to lay a turnout more than 18" from the layout edge. If I did, I might be changing my tune.

Also, I often test fit a piece of rail and then do the filing nearby or at the bench, repeat until ready to solder or spike. This includes filing any notches in the stock rail base (I try to minimize these), filing points/closure/wing rails (these are one piece until I cut gaps after installation), and filing frog points.

yours in handlaid track
Fred W

[cjcrescent]

But to me there are still two great advatages to handlaying your own turnouts :

1. You're not limited to what you can obtain commercially.
2. Probably the best reason, they are cheap compared to commercial trackwork. A #6 doubleslip can be built for around 3-5 bucks in materials. Try to buy a new one at that price.

[Bob grech]

Check out the Central Valley website
http://www.cvmw.com/acrobat/index.htm

They offer full size (ho-Scale 1:87) templates you can download. These come in real handy when building turnouts. They offer right and left hand #4 thru #10's. And the best part, there free!!

[Nataraj]

I have seen commuter railroads bring whole assembled switches on flatcars, and use a crane to put them in place like BIG snap track [:D]

[selector]

Having manufactured Fast Tracks #8's and one #6 double slip using Tim's jigs, and finding that they cannot be used without some considerable modification on my new layout (it's a long story), I now know how to put a turnout together with tools and materials, so I will manufacture at least two semi-curved #8's to keep the extraordinary slick frogs that they generate...which means fast and silky mainline running.

The one double slip (so far, I need two) was a real humbler. It is still in need of severing the points rails and making pivoting anchors, but it looks great and should work very well in my yard throat.

[BR60103]

This is a prototype practise. Most of the railroads I've seen bring in ready made turnouts and lay them in place -- usually in 3 pieces.
Streetcar lines (TTC I know) would layout entire junctions/intersections in their work yards and then transport the pieces -- mapped and numbered -- to the installation location. This enabled them to replace a whole intersection in a weekend.
I will admit that I saw CPR handlaying a yard and assembling the turnouts in position. (Parkdale container yard -- laid 25 to 30 years ago and since disappeared.)

[rolleiman]

Glad to see that I'm not the only nut that does this.. [:D] I've gone both ways and for me, the easiest place is on the layout. Typically though, I'll build the frogs with the points at the bench on a slab of basswood with a paper template attached. When I install them on the layout, I drop a wire through the frog so that I can later power it with the Tortise contacts. The outer rails are then placed in 3' sections to have as few as possible rail joiners. Tricky trackwork, like a double slip, I'll build entirely at the bench. All final soldering, guard rails, frogs, etc are done on the layout. I don't completely show the methods here but you can get a general idea by reviewing this..

http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/terminal.html

[tomikawaTT]

I've been known to fabricate an entire yard throat (multiple double slips) on the dining room table. (Yes, I have an understanding wife!) Working seated in a comfortable chair beats all **** out of leaning across a partially-finished layout in an inadequately-lit, un-climate-controlled garage.

That said, I don't stockpile pre-made turnouts. I lay out the desired track configuration on a removable piece of sub-roadbed, using flex track and marking where the tie ends fall. I don't worry about building to a specific frog angle, I just let the tracks fall where their natural curvature, tangents and easements puts them, then test-run the various alignments with some of my less cooperative rolling stock to make sure things will track once construction is finished. Once everything is laid out to my satisfaction, I remove the workpiece from the layout and adjourn to the house. Careful construction assures that the rail ends will line up when the piece is returned to the layout for final installation.

I have been using this method for well over thirty years. It isn't elegant, but it works.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the tips cjcrescent.

Just sitting doing engineering work on my computer hour after hour can get to me physically. I was thinking being hunched over the benchwork in an akward spot working on a turnout could drive me insane.

I liked the idea of building it directly on the layout, letting the rail continue continuously out of the turnout, but that would elliminate mass-production-style construction on the bench.

I also would like to add to your list: ease of scrapping bad ones. If one isn't so hot - just toss it. If it's on the layout, you might be tempted to tweak it forever to get it right.

[cjcrescent]

Carrfan;

Yes, definitely build as many as you can on the workbench. There are several real advantages to this method.

1. The lighting on the workbench is probably better than the lighting on most of the layout.
2. It is a lot easier to build a turnout here, esp. if complicated, like a three-way or doubleslip, than at a location that may be obstructed in some way.
3. A bench-built turnout is much easier to debug on the workbench, than in a location that may or maynot be comfortable to work in.
4. Building them this way gives you the ideal situation to lay the turnout, which makes the experience much more relaxing, and also provides you with a better built turnout.
5. Practice makes perfect and building a handlaid turnout on the workbench provides a chance to practice in ideal conditions. The better the practice goes, the greater the chance you'll stick with it and "practice" even more. Remember, each time you build one, it is generally a little better than the last.

[Anonymous]

I'm considering handlaying mine on the bench, rather than on the layout. This way I could build several at once, essentially stock them for when they're needed on a future layout.

I'm been experimenting with Lauan plywood (3/16" thick), and it's been perfect for spiking so far. Each turnout will be spiked to its own piece of wood roadbed, then installed somewhat like that easy track stuff.

The idea would then be I could make a bunch of #6's, etc., but then make any custom one when needed.

Has anyone built them on the bench this way with the spiking method? I know people are of course doing that with the PC ties method, especially, with the cool jigs now available.

I visited the Pasadena Model Railroad Club years ago, and a guy was building a turnout in the club lounge area - I wasn't as interested in the subject at the time, so I didn't ask him what their technique was.

I'm now thinking about handlaid turnouts, flextrack everywhere else. At my current pace, I'm getting nowhere fast, well, not even fast, actually!