please, allow me my rant

[bwftex]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bruce22

Bachmann now prepared to sue Model Power over trackage rights? When will it end? Too many Lawyers and Accountants are now involved in OUR hobby. Whatever happened to politeness and common sense? Everytime these none hobbiest's get involved we all end up paying for it in the end product costs. At 67 years of age and a layout that is now 90% complete I can do without anything coming on to the scene, not so for you younger types. Too bad for us all.

Don't worry. It appears nothing much has changed in ten thousand years though some disputes are now fought in a less violent fashion. According to accounts from the earliest of times the whole world has been going down hill because of the stupid and greedy things people do. Maybe the world is just getting rotten faster now a days with technology and all. The population of the world is growing too and though the percentages may be the same there are still more idiots, scumbags and weasels on the loose than ever before. That’s bound to have some effect. It’s interesting that idiots, scumbags and weasels through out history have always competed effectively for the top spots in society right along with the brilliant. To rise in influence it appears to help a great deal if one is brilliant and also a scumbag and or a weasel. However an ordinary idiot can still make to the top spot on occasion especially if he has a few brilliant scumbags and weasels for friends. Anyway most of us should be dead before it gets too much worse. Then those who are children today might occasionally place some flowers on our graves and look back to the good old days when they were younger, back when mom and dad were still kicking around and the world was not so screwed up. Bruce

[BRAKIE]

Dave said:Yeah, It is sorta bad for us young people. I'm 17, and if you want to partake in this hobby you need lots of money, especially with the RTR boom., oil prices, production costs....But I say the golden age of the hobby is right now. Who would ever have thought DCC would become so advanced 25 years ago, or all the odd steam/diesel models being produced,or the several high quality F units in every scale?
==================================================================
Dave,I fully believe every generation of modelers has bemoan the "high price of the hobby" over the years.However,its your generation that has seen the prices go through the roof and beyond.However..There are ways for your generation to cut hobby costs just like my generation and the following did.The same rules apply today as they did years ago and that rule is simple..Buy at the best price and buy only what you truly need.
As far as DCC..Don't worry it to will be replace once DCC sales stagnate
As for the next generation of modelers like you will bemoan the high prices.

[mustanggt]

QUOTE: At 67 years of age and a layout that is now 90% complete I can do without anything coming on to the scene, not so for you younger types. Too bad for us all.

Yeah, It is sorta bad for us young people. I'm 17, and if you want to partake in this hobby you need lots of money, especially with the RTR boom., oil prices, production costs....But I say the golden age of the hobby is right now. Who would ever have thought DCC would become so advanced 25 years ago, or all the odd steam/diesel models being produced,or the several high quality F units in every scale?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TMLEWI

If Union Pacific is charging to license their name and logo on rolling stock, why couldn't we send them an invoice for advertising UP on our layouts? It seems they're getting substantial advertising around the country (world?)

We have us models in australia, but you don't have australian models in the us.

[Anonymous]

Once again American Railroads exhibit the attitude and business arrogance that put them all out of business in the first place. I understand controlling the trademark for logo accuracy but Tom's right, they should be paying the manufacturers for advertising the railroad in the first place. It's absurd.

[METRO]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

My policy is to not allow any Union Pacific on my layout. I built it, I own it, it is mine.

I've got a simmilar policy but that's just because of my personal feelings on the UP, not anything economic. They may get just as much royalty from a CNW engine, but I'll allow them far before I wil a UP.

Everyone is right though, by not buying we'd be hurting the manufacturer not the UP, CSX or Amtrak, regardless of our feelings towards those lines.

Cheers!
~METRO

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

My policy is to not allow any Union Pacific on my layout. I built it, I own it, it is mine.

Good idea..But, won't hurt the UP..It will hurt the manufacturers that loses money..Of course this lost money has to be made up some where..So,it ups the locomotive and car prices.WE LOSE in the end not UP,CSX or Amtrak.
BTW..Do you have any of CSX or its predecessor roads? Any Amtrak?

[Anonymous]

My policy is to not allow any Union Pacific on my layout. I built it, I own it, it is mine.

The problem is that the manufacturers may choose to raise the price of every unit regardless of the road to pay Union Pacific a royalty. For example, if the UP royalty works out to six dollars a unit and UP units account for 25% of the total sales for a given run, the manufacturer may handle it by raising the price of each unit by $1.50 to pay the UP royalty instead of charging $6.00 extra for the UP units. (I think my numbers add up here, but I was a liberal arts major so some of you math and science types should correct my math.)

[Anonymous]

I don't understand what all the huffing and puffing is about this lawsuit (which was announced a few month ago btw). This isn't a case about abulance chasing. It's one company accusing another company of stealing their product and trying to pass it off as their own. Same goes with trademarks and such. Corporations and model railroad manufacturers have the right to protect their technology, image/logos and products. And the laywers who are involved with this case are Patent Lawyers, not civil or malpractice lawyers.

[grayfox1119]

Your right Ray. It's amasing how whenever there is a new technology ariving on the scene, there are also a few others trying to jump out of the shadows with the claims , " I had it 1st, I had it 1st ".

[howmus]

Copyright and tradmark lawsuits are (as has been said) not new at all. One of the most famous was Thomas Edison sueing a couple of upstart businessmen who got into the "Talking Machine" business and started making a competing record player to Edison's machine. It involved the use of of flat recordings (those were actually invented by Deuchegrammaphone earlier). That was around 1900. BTW the "upstarts" won and formed the "Victor Talking Machine Company" and made Victrolas. They later merged with Radio Corporation of America forming RCA Victor Corp. One of the "upstarts was the Nephew of Alexander Graham Bell whose oriuginal Telephone didn't really work until Edison's company came up with a small part that made it work by making the sound somewhat intelligable.

The right for entities to sue over the ownership of copyrights, trademarks, and patents is one of the driving forces for us having new products and indeed most of the "improvements" we have had over the years. I don't feel too bad about companies suing to protect their investments and interests. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. For instance if Apple Computer had won its suit when Bill Gates "stole" the Mac operating system. You guys might not have ever had Windoz and would still be using DOS. (BTW, Apple supposedly "stole" the Mac OS from code developed by Xerox so............ ) [:D][:D][:D]

[tomikawaTT]

Oh, the wonders of modern society!

In one of Robert Heinlein's science fiction universes, there was mention of, "The year they shot the lawyers." Maybe he was on to something.

Happily for my peace of mind, I have acquired all of the purely prototype rolling stock I am ever likely to need. All additions to the roster these days go through the shops first, emerging heavily modified (often beyond recognition) and decorated for my freelance coal hauler.

Chuck

[grayfox1119]

As you can see once again guys, the almighty dollar is the root of all evil. When these Lawyers and CEO's see $$$ signs, and another way to make money, they will screw anyone that gets in their path. When you see what the Enron top staff did, you get the picture real clear. And they had the nerve to claim ignorance.....ya right, and I have a real BIGBOY steam engine to sell you too!!
SafetyValve has the right idea, buy UNdecorated and do your own work, don't give them a penny in royalties the miserly dogs. There, at 67 years old, I ddin't hold it inside, and I FEEL BETTER ALREADY, LOL

[wjstix]

"I'm in my 40s and have seen incredibly sad changes to our "liberalized society" that are too numerous to list here."

Not sure that a bunch of wealthy GOP lawyers and businessmen filing lawsuits against each other is really an indication of our country being too liberal??[%-)] But anyway model RR lawsuits aren't really new, seems to me there was a lot of commotion in the forties or early fifties when Lionel came out with their first diesels, a manufacturer claimed they were copying his products etc.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Saftey Valve on all of the suggestions, but the best suggestion was to buy undecorated models and paint them however you like. Even UP!!! Heck, do this just to peeve them off! UP on your layout and not a penny to UP!!!

I'm surprised that more people don't do this. I have recently started doing this and at first was a little nervous, but I have found that it is incredibly easy to produce a factory quality result with a middle of the road air brush, some accurate colour paints, and a few decals. It's very easy, and very satisfying.

Trevor

[BRAKIE]

Bruce,Copyright licensing and copyright lawsuits isn't anything new under the sun..I can understand why corporations want to protect their image just like railroad photographers wants to protect their work by placing copyrights on their pictures-doesn't help judging by the copyright infringements I see on this and other forums...
Why are railroads any different? Seen any UPS decals lately? Seen a McDonalds kit lately? There are a lot of licensing fees being paid by model manufacturers.

Why shouldn't Bachmann protect their copyrighted interest? Why did Model Power use Bachmann's copyright track design in the first place if in fact they did?

II don't like licensing fees or copyright lawsuits either but,if I need a given model I will buy rather then hurt the manufacturer that produce the model nor am I childish enough to believe not buying a license product is going to hurt a billion dollar corporation-regardless who or what that corporation is..

[beegle55]

I'm a freshman in high school and my current layout is near completion, and Im about ready to start a new one. I have a limited budget and hate when prices increase because of a stupid, greedy lawsuit or due to any other minor, pratically "retarted" thing that they can blame for a price increase.

[tstage]

Some of the legal protection is reasonable; while others are downright absurd and border on (if not outright) greediness. For me, patenting genes would fall into the latter category. Just because you discovered something doesn't entitle you the same benefits as if you had actually fabricated or created it. It would be like me trying to patent gravity. Do you know what hoops I had to go through to patent grav...?...Oh, never mind!

Tom

[simon1966]

This is such a tough issue. We live in a society where the concept of protecting ideas and concepts is established in the legal system. It does seem that there is some merit in this particular round of sabre rattling. Business and individuals must have the right to protect their interlectual property, ideas and identities. Most likely this will be the last we will hear of this particular issue and it will fade into the background with a settlement of some kind. I suspect it will have very little impact.

[Anonymous]

If Union Pacific is charging to license their name and logo on rolling stock, why couldn't we send them an invoice for advertising UP on our layouts? It seems they're getting substantial advertising around the country (world?) and we're not being compensated for it!!

Tom

[Medina1128]

Because of the UP lawsuits over licensing of the UP name, I refuse to model ANYTHING with Union Pacific's name on it. It hurts because I DO model the Missouri Pacific, and because it is one of the railroads that UP acquired, it is now part of the licensing. So, does the licensing extend all the way down to decals with the MoPac name and logo? Guess, I'll have to by undecorated pieces and decal then with my RRs name: Clinton-Golden Valley RR; my fictional shortline. Guess I shoulda stuck with Santa Fe like I modeled on my last layout. [:(]

[AntonioFP45]

Understantable Bruce. I'm in my 40s and have seen incredibly sad changes to our "liberalized society" that are too numerous to list here.

I do agree wtih SafetyValve. Why stress ourselves thinking about these lawsuits? The smart solutions you suggest above are the way to go.

Do something good for someone everyday, and keep enjoying the hobby!

[Anonymous]

Well Bruce, I say tis better to rant and get the load off our chest.

Seeing as I am a junior speaking to you as an elder I must comment that I have enjoyed the hooby for 30 years and am no where near completion.

The lawsuits leave a bad taste in my system but I prefer to not worry about them as long as I am able to get the specific items I want for the hobby.

I recall years ago Railroads and Military Contractors enjoyed the plastic models and other products that exposes thier products to the people of the world. They thought it was worth the exposure to perhaps find a few contracts or judge popularity of an item.

The law suiting to me has gotten a little bit out of hand lately these last 5 years.

Does it mean I have to spend 5 dollars on a Boxcar that is one of the items involved in the suiting because the road name owner has the right awarded by our legal system?

I say NO. I dont have to spend the extra few dollars to satisfy royalty. I prefer to get a undecorated model and finish it myself in a similar or even competing road name. I vote with my wallet on these matter.

If the item is very well done and of very high quality and worthy of use in our wonderful hobby, I will find a way to get it either on ebay or mail order without having to pay the inflated results of successful lawsuits.

I am rather simple in the head, all that court stuff is way over me anyhow.

I hope you are safe out there and good luck on completing your railroad.

[bruce22]

Bachmann now prepared to sue Model Power over trackage rights? When will it end? Too many Lawyers and Accountants are now involved in OUR hobby. Whatever happened to politeness and common sense? Everytime these none hobbiest's get involved we all end up paying for it in the end product costs. At 67 years of age and a layout that is now 90% complete I can do without anything coming on to the scene, not so for you younger types. Too bad for us all.