Braggarts

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twcenterprises

One fellow modeller I knew (before his untimely passing), was very adept at handling these kinds of poeple. Since he was retired, he was a volunteer at our "club" keeping it open on the weekends for visitors. His philosphy was something like "I'd like to see some of your work", so when someone brought in something they had done, or even a new item fresh out of the box, he would almost always say "neat", "cool", "all right", or something like that. He would go on to point out "improvements" that could be made, if they were inclined to do so. He had a way of making even novice modelers feel like they belonged and were accepted, and at the same time, making suggestions and helping them improve their modeleing skills.

BTW, he was an accomplished modeller, with many NMRA certificates, several Master Certificates, and was on his way to becoming a Master Model Railroader. I did get to see his layout before he died, and I was impressed with his trackwork, electrical, and trains, but (not trying to judge) I saw room for improvement on structures and scenery. I did not say anything except to compliment his work, and to discuss some planning he had in mind.

Brad

Sounds like he was very adept at working with people.

[twcenterprises]

One fellow modeller I knew (before his untimely passing), was very adept at handling these kinds of poeple. Since he was retired, he was a volunteer at our "club" keeping it open on the weekends for visitors. His philosphy was something like "I'd like to see some of your work", so when someone brought in something they had done, or even a new item fresh out of the box, he would almost always say "neat", "cool", "all right", or something like that. He would go on to point out "improvements" that could be made, if they were inclined to do so. He had a way of making even novice modelers feel like they belonged and were accepted, and at the same time, making suggestions and helping them improve their modeleing skills.

BTW, he was an accomplished modeller, with many NMRA certificates, several Master Certificates, and was on his way to becoming a Master Model Railroader. I did get to see his layout before he died, and I was impressed with his trackwork, electrical, and trains, but (not trying to judge) I saw room for improvement on structures and scenery. I did not say anything except to compliment his work, and to discuss some planning he had in mind.

Brad

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

I agree. Really I do. I believe that all people are equals, all should be respected and valued, until they show me by their actions that they don't.

I think that all peole have value too. I'm saying that they always have value though, whether I happen to like their actions or not. They have value because they are people. If I don't like their actions, that's when I move on.

QUOTE: I have found that jerks come in all colors, creeds, sexes, countries, ethnicities, etc etc etc. It is a freedom of the spirit to finaly realize that it is the attitude of a person, not where they come from, that separates civilized from barbaric.

I have found that people from all walks of life do things that are unacceptable too.

QUOTE: Some vessels were made to be broken, once in a while we run into a fine example of that.

Some people are just mean people, that's true. And once in a while I run into one of them too, but I don't see that I have any right to break anybody. If they break the law I do have the right to call them out on it and have them arrested and face them in a court of law. Outside of that, I believe that I have the right to avoid them, but not necessarily to break them. It's not my responsibility to break someone. They need to be responsible for their own actions.

QUOTE: On the other hand, Stalin said that one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. Odd interplay of values, but we know the result of that line of thinking.

Agreed!

QUOTE: Which is why I have to disagree with you on the point that it is society's job to retrain the individual into believing they have self worth by supporting bad behaviors.

I don't wi***o belabor the point here, but I am in no way suggesting that we support bad behavior for any reason. You also make an excellent point in that it is not society's job to retrain individuals. That is the sole responsibility of the individual. All I'm suggesting is that we give that person a chance so that we can discover why they act that way. Maybe all they want is for someone to pay attention to them. I've found that this is often the case. Once the person see's that they have some value the bad behavior stops. It's terrible that some people base their own self worth on what others think of them, but that's the reality in many cases.

QUOTE: This is what all those dictators you mentioned were trying to do and failed.

I'm right with you!

QUOTE: The truth is that you cannot change other people, you can only change yourself.

BINGO! But your actions can cause others to think about what they're doing. OOPS, you kind of said that down below, didn't you?

QUOTE: When you go out into the world, you are an ambassador of your faith, your up bringing, and the society that you come from. Uphold those values, and you won't have to worry about what other people are doing or thinking, and with any luck your actions will make the other person question their own, hopefuly for the better.

The only reason I do think about what others are thinking is because I want to be sure that I'm affecting them in a positive way. Other then that, I'm right behind you.

QUOTE: Sheesh, too much philosophy. I'm going outside and run some trains...................

Just allow me one last comment, and then we can run trains together if you don't mind. I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed this conversation with you thoroughly. Your comments have been well thought out and stated with elegance. You bring up some very valid points and I have grown in my respect for you through this spirited conversation.

Now let's run some trains!!!![:)]

FORUMERS,
I'm sorry if I kind of hijacked this thread. That wasn't my intention at all. I now return it to you.

[jeffers_mz]

so......

...what about posting pixs of vast seas of finely crafted precision machines, in no prototypical manner other than pleasing to the eye?

Is that bragging?

...or sharing?

...not that I have any vast seas, mind you, just asking...

[tangerine-jack]

I agree. Really I do. I believe that all people are equals, all should be respected and valued, until they show me by their actions that they don't. I have found that jerks come in all colors, creeds, sexes, countries, ethnicities, etc etc etc. It is a freedom of the spirit to finaly realize that it is the attitude of a person, not where they come from, that separates civilized from barbaric. Some vessels were made to be broken, once in a while we run into a fine example of that.

On the other hand, Stalin said that one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. Odd interplay of values, but we know the result of that line of thinking. Which is why I have to disagree with you on the point that it is society's job to retrain the individual into believing they have self worth by supporting bad behaviors. This is what all those dictators you mentioned were trying to do and failed. The truth is that you cannot change other people, you can only change yourself. When you go out into the world, you are an ambassador of your faith, your up bringing, and the society that you come from. Uphold those values, and you won't have to worry about what other people are doing or thinking, and with any luck your actions will make the other person question their own, hopefuly for the better.

Sheesh, too much philosophy. I'm going outside and run some trains...................

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

I'm sorry, but I don't mean to rustle any feathers here, but I'm hearing the same thing from most of you. You all don't like the braggart. I get that. You've identified the symptom of the problem. But what's the problem, or cause? And what are you (or we) going to do about it? It seems as if the general concensus here are all ready to just write that person off.

........................

..

Nothing. That is what can be done and what we should do. Bragging is a universal Human trait that is hard wired into us. It transcends all cultural and ethnic boundaries and knows no borders. That is the problem and it cannot be fixed. If you "cure" one individual at least 10 more will pop up to take his (or her) place. I do like vsmith and pretty much ignore them because this hobby is for my enjoyment and I don't really care what the next guy has or what he does with it. If you are willing to share your experience, mentor and teach me to the benefit of all, then I am a willing student, if you want to blow smoke, then go right ahead and do so, but don't expect a reaction of any kind out of me.

People do matter. I react to honesty, if you want to be accepted by the group, then you must first accept who you are in real terms and not overinflate yourself. I don't care if you have one flea market Life-Like box car from 1972 as your entire collection or 5,000 pieces of oriental brass just as long as you are honest and real about it. I will then accept both the LF boxcar and brass owner as equals in the hobby. Look inward for the solution.

I understand where you're coming from, really, I do. You're dead on the money that it is our inherant nature (a whole seperate topic in and of itself) that causes us to want to outdo one another. You've risen above that in that you don't give in to that desire and you instead choose another path of action. The question is, is that the correct path? Or could we choose another one that would ellicit a better response on the part of the other person? Do we have a "corporate" responsibility to not only be true ambassador's of the hobby, but also be ambassador's to people in general? Should we give off the impression that we only care about some people and not others, or should we show that we care about all people? The basic question here is; Do ALL people have inherent value or not?

If we choose to ignore some people before we have a clue what they are about, then the answer to that question must be that not ALL people have inherent value. Some do, and some don't, and we get to decide, based on our own set of standards, which ones have value and which ones don't. If this is the case, then we have big problems.

The Declaration Of Independance of this country states that ALL people are created equal. To be exact, it says; "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Notice the section that is bolded? Also note the general idea that this sentence is trying to get across. Now you may not agree with the Declaration Of Independance on every point, and that's OK, but I think that the point this sentence is trying to make is a valuable one if we are to succeed as a society. Without this idea, eventual anarchy results IMHO. People cease to care about anybody but themselves and the only possibe result that I see that can come of this line of thinking is chaos.

Let's look for a moment at some societies who did not value this principal. How about the Nazi party? They didn't value ALL life. That turned out well, didn't it? How about Iraq under the Hussain administration? Equally good results. How about Czarist Russia? Another spactacular example of humans ignoring the value of life and sufferig the consequences of that choice. The list could go on and on,...look at Nero, or Henry the VIII, and so on, and so on. Now these are extreme examples, to be sure. But I use them because they illustrate my point. You see, each of these philosophies started out on the "individual" level, then moved to the "corporate" level. What we're talking about here is that same individual level that is where these ideas started out in the past.

On the other hand, lets say that we agree that ALL people do have inherant value. Is there a down side to that? Is there something about that that sounds "bad"? Isn't that how you'd like to be treated?

So all I'm saying is, why can't we give people respect and value right from the get go? Why can't we even give them a second chance if they happen to make a bad first impression? If you decide, after giving a person a fair chance, that they aren't your cup of tea, that's OK. At the very least, you showed that person, not only that you are honorable, but that they do have value.

So how about it? The ball's in your court. Would you try, for just a few minutes of your entire life, to see the person and not the attitude? To give that person a couple of minutes of your time and show some genuine interest in them?

Oh, and jxtrrx, I just felt it needed to be said. Thank you for giving my words value in your eyes.

[Darth Santa Fe]

While we're on the subject, my all-metal Bowser 4-6-6-4 that I spent countless hours building could easily outpull your plastic Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 toy.[:D]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.[:D]

I haven't run into any people like that that I can remember, but one day, I just might. And then I'll give him a good, long stare.[:D]

[monkeyman2]

If you wanna own me, show me homie :P
in other words, Prove it. [:)]

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

I'm sorry, but I don't mean to rustle any feathers here, but I'm hearing the same thing from most of you. You all don't like the braggart. I get that. You've identified the symptom of the problem. But what's the problem, or cause? And what are you (or we) going to do about it? It seems as if the general concensus here are all ready to just write that person off.

........................

..

Nothing. That is what can be done and what we should do. Bragging is a universal Human trait that is hard wired into us. It transcends all cultural and ethnic boundaries and knows no borders. That is the problem and it cannot be fixed. If you "cure" one individual at least 10 more will pop up to take his (or her) place. I do like vsmith and pretty much ignore them because this hobby is for my enjoyment and I don't really care what the next guy has or what he does with it. If you are willing to share your experience, mentor and teach me to the benefit of all, then I am a willing student, if you want to blow smoke, then go right ahead and do so, but don't expect a reaction of any kind out of me.

People do matter. I react to honesty, if you want to be accepted by the group, then you must first accept who you are in real terms and not overinflate yourself. I don't care if you have one flea market Life-Like box car from 1972 as your entire collection or 5,000 pieces of oriental brass just as long as you are honest and real about it. I will then accept both the LF boxcar and brass owner as equals in the hobby. Look inward for the solution.

[claycts]

Cured one at the LHS. Had an appointment for a photo shoot and wanted a copy of the flyer as to what was being sold by locals. Got thier and Mister bigger and better and richer than you was bending some ears. His Hugo was parked outside. Has the bumpere sticker that "My kid beatup your honor student," get the idea. I just parked this next to him and walked in. He shut-up faster than you could even guess.

I usualy drive the Bronco when I go to the store.

[Anonymous]

There are several that visit the hobby shop here in town. Both of them possibly all three of them. I don't go into one of them to know enough.

Ignoring them shuts them pretty well. Especially when the clerks relize that you are A.) purchasing something. B.) have a question C.) dropping something off for a new decoder etc...

I can honestly ignore most of them, and the one I can't is really just that good. It's one of those cases where even his bragging doesn't really do justice to his work. He is just that good of a modeller. Now if we could just teach this person to be that good of a person...

[jxtrrx]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell


So the question really is; Do people matter?

Phillip - Thanks for stepping up and saying that. Enjoyed your comments.

[twhite]

Jeff--DROOL!!
Wish I'd have known you a couple of years ago, I could have gladly relieved you of that baby. Mine could use a buddy, LOL!
Tom [:P][:P]

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite


I'm starting to see rather pristine brass steam at my two LHS's for pretty rock-bottom prices. Who knows, maybe I'll find an old PFM Rio Grande L-131 2-8-8-2 for the price of a new Athearn BB, one of these days. And the laugh won't be on ME!
I WORK my locos, and if I tend to brag about them occasionally, it's about how well they RUN, not about how much they might have cost.
Tom [:p][:p]

You mean like This one?

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/jjmel/Model%20Trains/brasspfm2882.jpg[/image]

She was a real sweet runner too. Let it go on ebay several years back when I started focusing my loco fleet and didn't want to leave it sitting on a shelf. Perhaps this will be the one you find.. Good luck on your hunt.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

As for the hording collectors, I think they're nuts. In my scale there are people, the Red Box Cult as they are known, whos entire LGB collections are still in their boxes, some with no layout at all to occasionally run them. They act with outright horror when they find out that I have not only run my engines, but kitbashed or weathered almost every one of them. "Oh No, they're ruined now!"
Maybe... I didnt buy them as a retirement fund. I bought them to run and enjoy. If that means my roster is now not worth a penny, doesnt bother me a bit.

That's about the way you have to look at it. Everything I buy in the way of model railroad equipment I buy for myself and to hell with the next guy. I bought it for my enjoyment not his. I believe trains belong on a train layout not sitting in some attic somewhere. You wanna make money, go get a job. Just because some imbicile paid too much on eBay for something doesn't guarantee you'll make a dime off it.

[on30francisco]

We have people like that in San Francisco too. One guy at the LHS was bragging how he only would use brass detail NBWs on his trestle and was dissing plastic parts. This area is famous for people bragging about their tastes in wine, high-priced restraunts, and health clubs. Some brag how much they spend dining out in the many overpriced, trendy restaurants that have mediocre food and service at best or paying exorbitant prices to belong to gyms. This area, although beautiful and open-minded, has a lot of "can you top this" mentality. Heck, what some people pay for dining out and gym membership in this area, I could easily buy a brass loco or two if I wanted to - in Large Scale!

[emdgp92]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
Turns out the joke was on them, as most of them are now looking at the fact that as large scale has grown, their prescious "collectors" items are worth less and less each year now as the same items continue to be reissued every few years. At a recent train show there was a seller with what 10 years ago would have been a rare find, a first year, 1968 original run NIB starter set from LGB with a very old hand written price tag on it that read:

<snip>

It's not just the LGB folks, several plastic car modelers are finding this out now. Quite a few kits from the 1960s and '70s have since been reissued...which has driven prices of the "collector" stuff down a bit. The endless reissues of certain kits, such as AMT's 1958 Chevy Impala, haven't helped things either. That one has been around as long as I can remember and then some. I've seen it with at least 6 different box versions.

I do like to drive the "collectors" nuts though. Years ago, I picked up a built '64 Chrysler Imperial model at a yard sale. Not much of it was left, and it it was in horrible shape. The body was cracked and some parts were missing. Rather than pitch it, I decided to have a little fun. I turned the car into a junker--lots of rust, some carved-in dents, cracked glass, etc. All of that makes the "collector crowd" eyeballs get huge when they see that. That car has *never* been reissued, yet I turned it into a junker. Seeing their reaction just makes my day [:D]

As if that wasn't enough, I know a guy who is kitbashing an old Lionel F unit to better represent a Penn Central F7. That should go over well :p

OK, now that I've bored you all to tears.... I think that some people have to feel "superior" to others, and bragging is the one way to do it. As for me, I don't do that. Sure I have my toys, but I don't even mention them unless someone asks, or needs help building the kit. I also don't go hoarding kits. I buy them to build--not hide away in the attic in case they are "worth" something.

[twhite]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
As for the hording collectors, I think they're nuts. In my scale there are people, the Red Box Cult as they are known, whos entire LGB collections are still in their boxes, some with no layout at all to occasionally run them. They act with outright horror when they find out that I have not only run my engines, but kitbashed or weathered almost every one of them. "Oh No, they're ruined now!"
Maybe... I didnt buy them as a retirement fund. I bought them to run and enjoy. If that means my roster is now not worth a penny, doesnt bother me a bit.

Boy, do I know about THAT!! Astonishing about the number of times I've taken an older, painted and weathered brass loco in to test-fit a can motor replacement for the worn out open frame, and had someone just stare at me and say, "Isn't that BRASS? WHY does it look like THAT? You mean, you're RUNNING IT?"
But the funny thing is, as the brass collectors begin to age and sell off their collections, I'm starting to see rather pristine brass steam at my two LHS's for pretty rock-bottom prices. Who knows, maybe I'll find an old PFM Rio Grande L-131 2-8-8-2 for the price of a new Athearn BB, one of these days. And the laugh won't be on ME!
I WORK my locos, and if I tend to brag about them occasionally, it's about how well they RUN, not about how much they might have cost.
Tom [:p][:p]

[vsmith]

All this reminds me of the old saying "Those who can't, Teach"

I guess the paraphrase here would be "Those who don't have, Brag"

As said before bragging about what a great collection of trains/wine/cigars/guitars/cars/porn/whatever is the single best way to get a visit by someone looking to relieve you of your burden! I've NEVER seen a classic car collector bragging about thier stable, or a real musician bragging about what a great colection of Stratocasters he has. The REAL collector, the serious ones, NEVER brag, you always find out about their stuff in passing. And they are usually very non-chalant about it. At least thats been my experience. So whenever I hear someone boasting about this or that I know he's full of BS just trying to give himself some ego reinforcement.

As for the hording collectors, I think they're nuts. In my scale there are people, the Red Box Cult as they are known, whos entire LGB collections are still in their boxes, some with no layout at all to occasionally run them. They act with outright horror when they find out that I have not only run my engines, but kitbashed or weathered almost every one of them. "Oh No, they're ruined now!"
Maybe... I didnt buy them as a retirement fund. I bought them to run and enjoy. If that means my roster is now not worth a penny, doesnt bother me a bit.

Turns out the joke was on them, as most of them are now looking at the fact that as large scale has grown, their prescious "collectors" items are worth less and less each year now as the same items continue to be reissued every few years. At a recent train show there was a seller with what 10 years ago would have been a rare find, a first year, 1968 original run NIB starter set from LGB with a very old hand written price tag on it that read:

$900

$750

$650

$450

$200 ....being the most recent price written on it

and he still didnt sell it!

[pcarrell]

I'm sorry, but I don't mean to rustle any feathers here, but I'm hearing the same thing from most of you. You all don't like the braggart. I get that. You've identified the symptom of the problem. But what's the problem, or cause? And what are you (or we) going to do about it? It seems as if the general concensus here are all ready to just write that person off.

The thing is, there's something that makes this person act that way. And no, it's probably not that he's just a plain old pain in the butt, although I don't completely rule out that possibility. It's probably something more like; this person is lonely and wants to be accepted but feels left out of the "inner circle" and so he overcompensates by exaggerating. If you can get to the root of the problem, not only does the person feel better (accepted), but you may gain a friend.

People matter, and we should act like it.

Anger and disdain won't solve the problem. I don't think anyone would feel accepted by someone who cares so little about them that they could just cast them aside.

Ignoring the problem will not solve it. Ignoring the person is what created the problem. Ignoring them now that they have this problem won't solve it.

Think about it: Does it make sense to try solving a problem using the same kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first place? (I kind of borrowed that one from Albert Einstein )

So the question really is; Do people matter?

If not, then why should you matter to anyone else? This line of thinking is, in the end, self destructive.

If so, then why don't we act like it?

[Pruitt]

One or two members of this forum might be classified in the same way.....

[Anonymous]

Whatever the hobby, whatever you have, someone will have more expensive equipment or just more of it. It's how it goes. Personally I don't have a problem with it - if someone wants to talk about their massive brass collection then that's entirely up to them. They may well be challenged to show a photo of it however!

[emdgp92]

Not too long ago, I nearly smacked someone at the hobby shop. I'd brought in my damaged Athearn F unit for some minor repairs...and one of the guys couldn't resist telling me what "junk" I was running, and how Athearn stuff was "unreliable." Of course I countered with the fact that the engine had hit the floor, and had been *perfectly* reliable even after that. For performance like that, I don't care that it's not detailed as well. I simply don't care that the windshield isn't shaped right, there's a mold seam on the nose, etc. For the price, I'm willing to overlook that.

He never did tell me what engines he was running.

[rolleiman]

[(-D][(-D] I think I've seen that same moron. He's at every drag strip and car show. See you at the starting line fella.. Just make sure you don't red-light. Bring it on!

[Medina1128]

Actually, it's a rather widespread phenomenon. I used to run into it constantly when I was involved in drag racing. You'd make a pass, some Bozo would wander by your pit and make a comment like, "My <friend, relative, etc.> has a <fill in the make, model and year> and would blow your doors off!!"
At this point, I would look directly into their eyes and say, "And you're racing a, what?? You're NOT? Thought so... ", and go back to whatever it was I was doing when this moron approached me.

[eeyore9900]

Yep-they're everywhere, no matter what your line or interest!
A bud of mine has had an old 65' GTO for about 25 yrs (just recently given to his son as I recall) Not in the best of shape, but he enjoyed driving & hot rodding it a little.
He was in it once, dropping off a friend at home, when a guy on a BICYCLE came up & said out of the blue, "My brother has a GTO that can blow that one off the street." his friend then said, "Oh yeah?-well, let's find out-go get it." & the guy backpedaled-"Oh-it's...not running right now..." & his friend replied, "Well, keep your mouth shut if you can't back up what you're saying!" & went on in the house!
Bottom line is-if you're HAPPY with what you've got & what you're working with, that to
me is the key! Just blow the braggarts off-chances are they're all talk! I've always found out the guys that DO have the good stuff & knowledge, keep pretty quiet about it, but when asked for advice, are willing to share!
Mitch (AKA The Donkey)

[twhite]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite
Believe me, guys, when I rave about my new Rio Grande 2-10-2, I'm not doing any one-up-manship, I'm sharing the fact that I'm just so darned happy to actually HAVE one!

Is that the one with three cylinders? I forget the class - very rare and will probably never be made in plastic...but I guess stranger things have happened.

No, the 3-cylinder job is the Rio Grande 1600 class 4-8-2 Mountain (I've got one of those, too). You're right, probably will never be made in plastic--in fact probably NO Rio Grande mountain of any class will ever be made in plastic, since the Rio Grande Mountains had their driving rods connected at the 3rd driver instead of the 2nd, unlike most 4-8-2's. in fact, about the only Rio Grande steam you can get in plastic (except for the Genesis 3800 4-6-6-4 which is a UP clone and not the more famous L-105 from Baldwin) is their 3500 series USRA styled 2-8-8-2 from Proto. And it's a locomotive that I bypassed largely because of its poor pulling power. So again--Rio Grande standard gauge steam equals either mostly brass or nothing.
Not fun, actually. But I don't see BLI or any of the other manufacturers coming out with Rio Grande steam in MY lifetime!
Tom [:I]

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite
Believe me, guys, when I rave about my new Rio Grande 2-10-2, I'm not doing any one-up-manship, I'm sharing the fact that I'm just so darned happy to actually HAVE one!

Is that the one with three cylinders? I forget the class - very rare and will probably never be made in plastic...but I guess stranger things have happened.

[twhite]

I have to admit that I've been guilty of 'brassing'--but not, I hope, as a braggart. My adherence to brass locos is pretty easy to understand--I model two railroads in which standard gauge steam for my prototypes are largely non-existant. So if I want a prototype for a 2-10-2 or a 4-8-2 or an articulated, my only choice IS brass. That's why I buy them, that's why I run them, and that's why I spend an awful lot of time tinkering with them. Of course if I switched to diseasal, all of my worries would be over, but I wouldn't be having as much fun.
So, right now, for the most part, it's brass or nothing. Believe me, guys, when I rave about my new Rio Grande 2-10-2, I'm not doing any one-up-manship, I'm sharing the fact that I'm just so darned happy to actually HAVE one!
Tom [:P][:P]