Trix Big Boy

[hdtvnut]

We should have a couple of beers together, Jeff.

Hal

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut


As far as steam decoders go, Jeff, I don't agree with you about the
Tsunami. I can sync the chuff pretty well over the entire speed
range by using the speed table method. The articulated double chuff
can be synced or slipped at various rates.

I agree that the Tsunami can be made to have a decent chuff sync, but compared with the two CV adjustment of the Loksound, playing with a speed table is a lot of work. Besides, you could always play with the speed table in the Loksound, but the BEMF values seem to get things very close and work over the entire speed range nicely.

QUOTE:
But NO decoder can give truly accurate and consistent chuff sync
without a cam type input.

I agree 100%. Remember I have a large fleet of outdoor large scale equipment all with Tsunami decoders and Airwire control, and I really enjoy them a great deal.

QUOTE:
Tsunami has both variable length whistle and "toot" functions.

The Loksound decoders have whatever whistle you want, assuming you have a Lokprogrammer. Most of my On30 whistles are built from scratch, and I have short toots, long toots, and toots in between. Having over 50 Loksound decoders at this point, I couldn't imagine not having the Lokprogrammer. In fact, I would consider it a must have for anyone wanting to unlock the potential in this product.

QUOTE:
I think the Tsunami's 16 bit sound is cleaner than Loksound, and I
have both here.

This is debatable, but my guess is you don't have a Lokprogrammer so you are dealing with stock sounds. Many of the sounds I've created are much better even in the 8 bit format that comparable Tsunami 16 bit sounds. Also, for the purests out there, the 16 bit Loksound decoders are almost out.

QUOTE:
Loudness should not be an issue with both having 1 watt amps, but the
Tsunami has the big advantage of a wide-range adjustable equalizer
that allows tayloring the output spectrum. This is valuable because
there is so much variation in the characteristics of small HO
speakers and the installations used.

On the one hand, there is a much wider selection of 8 ohm speakers
available than 100 ohm. On the other, the Loksound decoder is
smaller physically partly because of its 100 ohm amplifier and it
can fit in places a Tsunami won't

Loudness seems to be very close to my ears. Remember the 100 ohm speakers ESU uses also allows the Loksound to run very cool. Also, in addition to the standard v3.5 decoder, the new Micro is out. I now have several of these installed and again they run very cool, and are amazingly small. I've found the equalizer in the Tsunami to be very gimmicky and not as effective as using cut off slopes when building the files. Again, this is only something you can do with the programmer.

QUOTE:
Loksound has download capability, but for the near term, Tsunami
offers more American soundfile choices.

The Lokprogrammer is what makes the Loksound decoders so cool. And while I agree with your statement about the American soundfile choices (assuming you meant steam choices), nobody has a larger collection of diesel prime movers and horns anywhere including Phoenix. If you are a diesel nut, there is no end to the choices there. As for me, I use very little in terms of stock files and like to make my own. I end up with very good results for the most part and have a lot of fun doing it.

QUOTE:
My slow speed control is extremely good. So far, I have only tied
volume of the chuff to accel/decel rates, but the chuff timbre can
also be varied.

While the BEMF circuit in the Tsunami is ok (it has sort of the Digitrax elastic effect which is not good), it's not even in the same league as the ESU decoders. Remember, this is Soundtraxx's first attempt at BEMF, and they did a good job. Unfortunately for them, ESU has been doing BEMF for a long time, and the smoothness of the performance you get with them really shows. I kind of liken the ESU decoders motor drive performance to a BMW 3 series, very smooth, very predictable and something everyone else wants to copy... [;)]

QUOTE:
I don't use DC, but Tsunami allows automating the bell sound and
tying some whistle signals to throttle manipulations in DC mode.

In fact, the Tsunami has so many features that few people, me
included, have spent enough time studying the large tech manual
to know them all. Loksound may have as many (I doubt it), but
they need to come up with a better, less cryptic tech manual.

The Loksound decoders provide for some DC controls and automated sounds, but at this point I really could care less about this and typically disable the DC mode control altogether. The Loksound decoders also have a ton of CV's, and programming one without the Lokprogrammer can be a challenge (I did this for about a week).

QUOTE:
Tsunami is also $30 cheaper. To each his own.

Hal

Again, I agree with you about the price. The thing is, once you have a Lokprogrammer and realize the potential of the ESU decoder, you quickly forget about the thrity bucks. I remember an old adage - A good deal is quickly forgotten, but a quality product leaves a lasting impression... [;)]

Thanks for the post Hal, I enjoyed the reading!

Jeff

[hdtvnut]

tstage, my Mikado finally got here, and I took it to a club meet an
hour later. I like it and so did the others. Looks great, runs
well at low speed, sounds good (except can't short-toot whistle).
It appears to be of the same high quality as the BB.

Not being very knowledgable about UP, why does the number 211 appear
on the front number boards instead of the cab number?

Hal

[hdtvnut]

Tom, my Mikado hasn't arrived yet, but I hope to see it Monday.

As far as steam decoders go, Jeff, I don't agree with you about the
Tsunami. I can sync the chuff pretty well over the entire speed
range by using the speed table method. The articulated double chuff
can be synced or slipped at various rates.

But NO decoder can give truly accurate and consistent chuff sync
without a cam type input.

Tsunami has both variable length whistle and "toot" functions.

I think the Tsunami's 16 bit sound is cleaner than Loksound, and I
have both here.

Loudness should not be an issue with both having 1 watt amps, but the
Tsunami has the big advantage of a wide-range adjustable equalizer
that allows tayloring the output spectrum. This is valuable because
there is so much variation in the characteristics of small HO
speakers and the installations used.

On the one hand, there is a much wider selection of 8 ohm speakers
available than 100 ohm. On the other, the Loksound decoder is
smaller physically partly because of its 100 ohm amplifier and it
can fit in places a Tsunami won't.

Loksound has download capability, but for the near term, Tsunami
offers more American soundfile choices.

My slow speed control is extremely good. So far, I have only tied
volume of the chuff to accel/decel rates, but the chuff timbre can
also be varied.

I don't use DC, but Tsunami allows automating the bell sound and
tying some whistle signals to throttle manipulations in DC mode.

In fact, the Tsunami has so many features that few people, me
included, have spent enough time studying the large tech manual
to know them all. Loksound may have as many (I doubt it), but
they need to come up with a better, less cryptic tech manual.

Tsunami is also $30 cheaper. To each his own.

Hal

[Anonymous]

I couldn't resist the lower prices on the Trix so I just bought two of the Mikados and they both arrived this week. They have been going for $220ish give or take on ebay and I thought that was a bargain! Compared to the BLI Mike for a bit less dough, these are much heartier units and are built like a brick.

I also bought the Trix Big Boy. I like all of them! The sound is fine and they all run very nicely. I am using a Digitrax Super Empire Build with DT400 throttle. I recommend them, especially since the price has come down significantly.

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

F1 (or bell) - Turns sound on or off instead of F8

F3 - Turns bell on and off

Bell and whistle can NOT be played simultaneously

Took me a 1/2 hour to figure out how to turn on the sound. There was nothing mentioned in the manual. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

Tom

Tom,

This is a European spec function set, and they can be changed quite easily through programming. Just keep in mind that once you move the sound on/off from function 1 to function 8, it will not function as a normal mute function would. You will need to have the function on to hear the sound and off to turn it off. One of the biggest limitations of the older Loksound decoders is the two channel playback. This means that the decoder can only process and play two sounds at the same time. My guess is that you will quickly tire of the v2.0 decoder in that Mikado and want to upgrade to something a more modern. I have several Loksound v2.0 decoders that I've pulled out of other locomotives that are in service here and there on my railroad. One is being using a stationary decoder for bar noises (yes I have a rootin' tootin' bar on my On30 layout complete with random piano noise and gun fights.. ;), the others are being used in locomotives where I didn't need a lot of sound effects (Davenports and cranes).

BTW, if you don't want to play around with that v2.0 decoder (and without the Lokprogrammer there isn't much you can do), I'll gladly pay you top dollar for it (this goes for anyone else as well). Let me know!

Jeff

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut
My Trix Mikado at the new lower price (40% less) should come today, and I'll probably put a Tsunami in it later.

Hal

Hal,

Did you get your Trix Mikado today? I did. Here's a couple of differences in the LokSound decoder worth mentioning:

F1 (or bell) - Turns sound on or off instead of F8

F3 - Turns bell on and off

Bell and whistle can NOT be played simultaneously

Took me a 1/2 hour to figure out how to turn on the sound. There was nothing mentioned in the manual. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

Tom

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Are you sure? The review in MR said the whistle duration was fixed, making it impossible to sound actual RR signals. Did they do a second run with newer decoders?

I'm not sure what review you saw, or for which locomotive as that could be an issue, but the fact is the newer versions of the Loksound decoder (v3.0 and up) support what most people would call a "playable" whistle. This simply means that you can regulate the duration of the whistle using the function button. With that said, the latest v3.5 decoder also supports the analog "playable" whistle feature which allow the amount of pressure on the function button to change the volume and pitch of the whistle using a Digitrax DT400 throttle (I'm not sure what other throttles support this feature as of now). This effect is much better (or worse depending upon how you look at it) in the Tsunami decoder. Also keep in mind the newer Loksound decoders support a doppler feature if you're into that sort of thing... [;)]

The way the Loksound decoders process the sound files stems from the way the decoder stores the sounds in it's memory slots. For the older pre v3.0 decoders there was only one slot, so you could only insert one file of a particular length (hence the non-playable whistle). In the newer v3.0 and above revisions, there are three slots for files that play sequencially depending upon the function button action. Basically the first slot represents the push of the button, the middle slot represents the hold of the button, and the last slot plays upon the release of the button. All in all this is a very powerful and flexible way to control the whistle function, and when you combine this with the use of the Lokprogrammer you can achieve some pretty amazing effects (much better than any of the whistles I've heard on the Tsunami decoders so far).

Anyone who has read my previous posts knows that I'm a diehard Loksound fan and wouldn't have a Tsunami anywhere near my track powered DCC stuff. This doesn't mean I don't like the Tsunami, in fact my entire large scale outdoor CVP Airwire equipped fleet uses the Tsunami, but only as a sound decoder. With the larger 3"+ speakers in the large scale stuff, the 16 bit sound files of the Tsunami really stand out. This isn't nearly as noticeable with the speakers used in the smaller scales however, so I've opted to stick with the Loksound decoders in my On30, HO and N scale stuff.

On a side note, the 16 bit version of the Loksound decoder is on the way and should be available before long. The latest Lokprogrammer software already includes support for this decoder, and I can hardly wait to get my hands on a few for a test drive... [:D]

Jeff

[tstage]

Jonathan,

I know that to be true for the older 2.0 LokSound decoder. I'm not entirely sure about the new v. 3.5 decoder. I was merely commenting on Jeff's earlier statement, "The v3.5 also supports a playable whistle and there is much more flexibility in the sound programming via the CV's."

Tom

UPDATE: I just checked ESU's web site:

http://www.loksound.com

I couldn't see anything that confirmed that the whistle was adjustable or not. Jeff, where did you read or hear about that?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage
Thanks for that advice. I, like Hal, will be receiving my new Trix Mike today in the mail (50%+ of MSRP). (Boy! Did anyone else sense that the surplus of them dried up as fast as they flooded the market?) It will come with the older v.2.0 LokSound decoder so I have been looking at my options about upgrading or replacing it with either the newer v.3.5 decoder or the QSI or Soundtraxx decoders. It's good to know that v.3.5 has the playable whistle.

Are you sure? The review in MR said the whistle duration was fixed, making it impossible to sound actual RR signals. Did they do a second run with newer decoders?

[tstage]

Jeff,

Thanks for that advice. I, like Hal, will be receiving my new Trix Mike today in the mail (50%+ of MSRP). (Boy! Did anyone else sense that the surplus of them dried up as fast as they flooded the market?) It will come with the older v.2.0 LokSound decoder so I have been looking at my options about upgrading or replacing it with either the newer v.3.5 decoder or the QSI or Soundtraxx decoders. It's good to know that v.3.5 has the playable whistle.

I've heard the Tsunami decoder a couple of times over the Internet and wasn't all that bowled over by the sound quality or type. (In all fairness, I should really hear it in person.) I've also read up on the new LokSound decoder, but am not convinced the upgrade is worth the price.

I only have one locomotive with sound: a BLI Mike with the QSI decoder. I like the QSI sound but it does have a couple of quirks. Being a musician, I can tell that the whistle is digitally "sampled". I've also learned to ignore the asynchronsis "chuff" at higher speeds. Overall, though, I've been pleased with the QSI sound. It will be interesting to hear the LokSound decoder in comparison to the QSI - even though it is somewhat outdated.

Anyway, thanks again for the info, Jeff. This gives me some things to think about down the road.

Tom

P.S. Hal - FYI: the LokSound v.3.5 decoder is available from Tony's Train Exchange at discount for $110.

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut

You might consider deepsixing the ESU decoder and 100 ohm speaker
and put in a Tsunami.

This may not do anything for the top speed, which should only depend
on the gearing, but it will certainly give you more customizable and
more realistic sound. The whistle control with the ESU is a joke.

Hal

You know, I wish I had a dollar for everytime I've seen this type of advice on this and other forums... [;)] While the Tsunami is a wonderful product, and I certainly respect the opinions of the other modelers, here's my advice on solving your problems...

Replacing the v2.0 Loksound decoder in the Big Boy with a Tsunami will not increase the volume. The Tsunami has many faults, output level being top on the list (even compared with the older sound only DSX series decoders). When baffled in the same manner and using the same size speaker, a Loksound decoder produces similar output levels as the Tsunami. Going the Tsunami route will also garner you a crazy BEMF circuit that seems to be something Digitrax produced several years ago and is a lifetime behind the smooth predictable performance you have with the ESU. Also, good luck ever getting the Tsunami to sync chuffs properly over the entire speed range (especially on an articulated locomotive). This is another area where ESU has has the folks in Colorado beat hands down.

With that said, there are many things you can do to fix the problems with the various sounds in the older Loksound decoders (assuming you have the Lokprogrammer and some time), but the easiest thing to do is replace it with a newer v3.5 Loksound. This will use the same speakers you have already, and you will get the same predictable BEMF and chuff sync performance you had with the v2.0 decoder. The v3.5 also supports a playable whistle and there is much more flexibility in the sound programming via the CV's.

The top speed in the Loksound decoder is adjustable with the maximum voltage CV #5. Almost all of the decoders I've ever seen have this capability, even with very old models.

Good luck!

Jeff

[hdtvnut]

You might consider deepsixing the ESU decoder and 100 ohm speaker
and put in a Tsunami.

This may not do anything for the top speed, which should only depend
on the gearing, but it will certainly give you more customizable and
more realistic sound. The whistle control with the ESU is a joke.

I bought a used-but-new non-sound BB just to do this, and am very
happy with the result. I have Lifelike Heritages, which are all
great except the Berk, and BLI's, which are less consistant, but the
Trix beats them all. My Trix Mikado at the new lower price (40%
less) should come today, and I'll probably put a Tsunami in it later.

Hal

[cacole]

Aren't the sounds adjustable through CV programming? If you had any locomotive with a SoundTraxx Tsunami or QSI sound system you could adjust individual volumes. You may need to wade through the documentation that came with the locomotive to determine who made the sound system, and download a user manual from their web site.

[Anonymous]

How many are satisfied with the Trix Big Boy sound and speed?
I do like the low end speed, but the top end speed is undesireable, is there a way to make it better?
I find the sound not very good also. I don't hear the steam blow like i do on my other engines with lok-sound. The whistle is not very loud and it's set a max. Anyone know how to fix this?
One thing for sure! The pulling power is great! They say it can pull 130 cars on the flat, well i only have 60 and it pulled them with out a slip. I'm just not happy with the sound and top end speed. Any help would be very appreciated>
Doug