Bowser Loco Kits??

[scubaterry]

Darth, thanks as always you are a fountain of information[:D] I think I will email Bowser again and get their take on it. Maybe with the new DC-71 the HH are not needed. But I could see where you might want to replace one of the older style Bowser motors.
Terry[8D]

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

Darth - Tks for the info. You say the DC-71 is more powerful. Is it significant over the HH? This loco and tender weigh almost two pounds. I don't want to put a wimp motor in it.
Terry[8D]

I don't actually have an HH motor, but the new DC-71s are more powerful than any motor I have(Atlas, Roco, Kato, P2K...). Bowser says they have .004 horse power, which is quite-a-bit if you consider its size![:0][:D]

I'm sure the Helix Humpers have plenty of power. Most newer can motors do, so they should work great![:D] And for the price, they'd BETTER work great![^]

[scubaterry]

Darth - Tks for the info. You say the DC-71 is more powerful. Is it significant over the HH? This loco and tender weigh almost two pounds. I don't want to put a wimp motor in it.
Terry[8D]

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

Thanks for the info guys. I can't wait to get my hands on it. Any comments on replacing the motor with a "Helix Humper" from Alliance? If it will make it run better then I don't mind spending the extra money on it.
Terry[8D]

The Helix Humper motors have a gigantic brass worm that's both a worm and a flywheel, so you get the advantage of a flywheel drive. The HH motors, I believe, also draw less current, are quieter, and don't run quite as fast as the DC-71s. The only two advantages of the Bowser motor over the HH motor are:

1. They're more powerful and
2. They're extremely reliable.

The engine will run smoother and quieter with the HH motor, and will coast to a stop.[:D]

[scubaterry]

Thanks for the info guys. I can't wait to get my hands on it. Any comments on replacing the motor with a "Helix Humper" from Alliance? If it will make it run better then I don't mind spending the extra money on it.
Terry[8D]

[gmcrail]

I've built two of the Bowser kits - a PRR K4s 4-6-2, and the USRA Light 4-6-2. I highly recommend them. Their line of Pennsy locos are originally old Penn Line locos, but have been extensively re-designed, especially the running gear. The frame is a built-up brass frame, with individual bearings on the driver axles. They run great, are smooth, quiet, and will pull the plaster off the wall. The K4s I have will pull 15-20 smooth-rolling passenger cars with ease.

The USRA Light locos use the Cary boiler, and when bought as a kit come with the boiler pre-drilled for the detail parts, a real time-saver. The running gear is, I believe, from their legacy NYC 4-6-2 (K5?). It. too, goes together well and looks great when completed. Runs very smoothly, and very quiet. The Cary boiler has room for almost anything you want to add in it. I stuffed it with lead.

Don't knock the "old technology". Sometimes us old guys got it right! [:)]

[Anonymous]

Although it's about tips on assembling an MDC locomotive kit, here's a link to Assembling the MDC 2-8-0 by Stephen Hatch.

Good Luck!

[scubaterry]

I noticed the Bowser site sells the Helix Humper motor from Alliance. Its 39.00 for the replacement motor for the Mikado and was thinking of going ahead and getting it. I assume this is a better motor than the Bowser DC-71 that the kit comes with? I don't mind spending the money if it will make a better running loco.
Terry[8D]

[Virginian]

You can make up a Bowser into a very good looking and running engine. And if you do, you will be less inclined to scream about the price of ready to run quality locomotives ever again.

[scubaterry]

Well it is now two days closer to payday[:D]
Terry[8D]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dothinker
Now looking at the USRA light Pacific, with slight change of the running board close enough to NKP's K1a/K1b 160-169 to letter it as such [wiping saliva from chin].

Cleanup, aisle six...

Actually, the USRA light Pacific looks nothing like the NKP K-1's. The valve gear hangers are different, the cab is different, the boiler courses are different, the lengths are different, the domes are different, etc, etc. As a slobbering NKP fan, and as one of a bare handful of modelers who actually NEEDS one of these engines (train 25/26, Peoria to Frankfort) I've looked at modeling these engines from several angles. The best way to do the conversion is to pick up a basketcase NYC K-5 Pacific and rework it: it has the most correct lines of any existing Pacific model.

Now, most NKP modelers who DO have a K on their roster do use the USRA light Pacifics. I might pick one up too, if I can find a decent one on the market (Bowser's is wrong, as is Athearn's; I need to find an old Powerhouse engine)

[Anonymous]

I almost bought the PRR decapod kit a little while ago (but then I saw the PCM anouncement.) One thing that worries me is the big fat shiny worm wheel you see running from the boiler to the drivers. Can something be done about this disguise-wise? (If so why hasn't Bowser already done so?)
Now looking at the USRA light Pacific, with slight change of the running board close enough to NKP's K1a/K1b 160-169 to letter it as such [wiping saliva from chin].

[TomDiehl]

Originally, the open frame motors in almost all brands had one of the brushes electricall connected to the frame of the motor and this was the conduction path for this brush of the motor to the loco frame. To make it DCC compatable, all they did was eliminate this connection. I've assembled lots of locomotive kits, mainly Mantua/Tyco steam, and a couple of the MDC. I have no problem working on them because I've seen them in pieces, then put all the parts together and made them work. The Mantua/Tyco's with the diecast metal boiler are very generic looking if not detailed, but they run and pull great. You can also consider them a "blank slate" if you want to detail them. They were always much cheaper than the Bowser kits, which is why I had them in my younger years. I have a Mantua Mikado kit that I built in the late 60's that still runs great. These still show up on Ebay occasionally.

[scubaterry]

Tom - I now remember reading something on the Bowser site about the DC-71 (I think thats right) motor has been redesigned for DCC. Everytime I read more replies on this thread I get itchy to order the Mikado but alas the budget has it bumped until next payday. I would love to hear any more pros/cons on this project.
Terry[8D][:)]

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

The Mike I was thinking of getting has all of the super detail holes pre-drilled so that saves me the trouble of doing that.
Tom - You say your Challenger motor is set up for DCC? Do all of them come that way now or is it something special you did to the motor.
Terry[8D]

The motor came that way, but it's the first one I've seen like that. The Bowser kit I built before this was really before the DCC craze took hold. The Challenger kit came directly from Bowser in November of last year on a special sale and since I don't use DCC, it took me a bit to figure out why the motor was this way. It had a wire soldered to each brush arm that had a lug on the other end. A little sheet in the parts bag with it told you how to hook it up for standard DC use. As I understand it, isolating the motor from the frame of the loco is one of the problems to overcome when going to DCC on older locos.

[IRONROOSTER]

The Bowser K-4 Pacific was my first locomotive kit. It took some patience to build, but I had a ball doing it. Even though I am no longer in HO, I still have it.
Enjoy
Paul

[Walter Clot]

I inherited three partially built Boswer kits. I've been putting off working on them. You may have inspirted me to try one real soon. (I just hope all the parts are there). The kits must be 20-25 years old.

[scubaterry]

Tks for the info folks. I think I will go ahead and buy the Mikado with the super detail kit. We will be moving soon and my layout will be dismantled. Many things will have to be completed before I get to build the next one so the Bowser will give me something to do in the mean while. I figure its a great way to learn. Again thanks for the help.
Terry[8D]

[Darth Santa Fe]

There are a couple things I forgot to mention. For painting, I like acrylics best. I used Testors and Pollyscale acrylic paints on my Challenger. I found that Pollyscale "Panzer Dark Gray" looks almost exactly like sun-faded graphite. I was lucky to find that at my LHS when I was trying to find graphite colored paint, and it looks good, too.[:D]

The other thing is, a Bowser steam engine should out-last a BLI or Athearn Mikado by around 50 years, and can out-pull them easily.[:D]

[sunsetbeachry]

Morning,
...........I have built many Bowser kits from trolleys to 2-8-8-2's and have found them to be very relieable but a long time to build but also just great. Like stated front engine wheels positive and tender neg. In the long run they are not "cheep" inexpensive after adding all the super detailed parts and making up the model that you want with the time invested you should wind up with a beautilul model. Just remember that this is a hobby and that this is my way of enjoying it.
.................chuck..............

[Darth Santa Fe]

I've built two Bowser steam engines so far. One of them is the 4-6-6-4 Challenger, which uses their standard motor. The Mikado, since it doesn't have the extra set of drivers like the Challenger, should only draw about 0.35 amps running free.[:D] The Light Mikados only represent the USRA Lights, but aren't exact models of them. They can be made to look good, though.[:D] All the newer Bowser steamers are set up for easier DCC. The Pittman motors included in most of the kits have a stall current of 2 amps, but you won't have to worry about it stalling, because these motors are powerful!! The fact that all the super-detail part holes are already drilled should cut about 15 hours off the time it takes to build the kit.[:D] The Mikados do look good when they're finished. There are some photos of the finished kits here:http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/usra_light_mikado/usra_light_mikado.htm

About the running quality, they run very smooth when they're built properly, and they're quiet when they're broken in.[:D] The top speed shouldn't be more than 90 scale MPH with the new Pittman motor, which is how fast my Challenger goes.[:D] I highly recommend them to anyone who wants a good, challenging kit.[:D]

[scubaterry]

Ray - I just wanted to build a steamer. I thought for the money it would run better than the store bought ones. Apparently not. I can take that 200 + dollars and buy another NKP BLI Mikado. I haven't given up on the idea yet but it's looking grim for the Bowser. Tks for your honest input.
Terry[8D]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

The Mike I was thinking of getting has all of the super detail holes pre-drilled so that saves me the trouble of doing that.

Only if you ONLY use the details that come with the kit, which will result in an engine that's less detailed than a Trix, BLI, or even Athearn USRA light Mike. You've really got to add another $50-$100 worth of superdetail parts to the engine to bring it's looks up to snuff.

I'm not saying don't buy a steam kit: far from it. I've learned a LOT about building models from assembling, tweaking and superdetailing metal kits. But...they don't run as well as most modern plastic steam, they take forever to build, and are more expensive than starting with a plastic steamer and adding details. If your goal is to run prototypically correct engines (and more than a few of them), then don't bother with metal kits unless you can't get the engine you need any other way. But if you want a fun project and want to BUILD something, by all means have at a steam kit or three. I suggest a Bowser, and then graduating to DJH steam, which are the best steam kits ever produced (sadly, they're almost all European prototypes)

[scubaterry]

The Mike I was thinking of getting has all of the super detail holes pre-drilled so that saves me the trouble of doing that.
Tom - You say your Challenger motor is set up for DCC? Do all of them come that way now or is it something special you did to the motor.
Terry[8D]

[TomDiehl]

From personal experience (I've built three of them so far):

They are excellent quality. With the add on detail sets available, they make an outstanding looking model as well.

This is one area where the "old" technology is superior to the new. Being all metal, they have much more weight on the drivers and, as a result, have more pulling power than the plastic models of the same size. Most of them can actually pull a prototype sized train.

On my latest one, the Challenger, the motor is set up for DCC in that it does not have either of the brushes grounded to the frame. The motor draws about a half amp when running light, maybe a bit more with a train, so a heavy duty DCC decoder should work well.

The pickup is, as stated above, one side in the locomotive, other in the tender.

As far as the work involved, these are DEFINATELY not a "shake the box" kit. They do take a while to assemble. I consider this one of the more enjoyable aspects of the hobby. And since you assembled it, you know how it works, know how it comes apart, and know how to fix anything that goes wrong with it.

[orsonroy]

Bowser is a failroy old manufacturer of bot steam and freight car kits. They also now own the Steward line of diesels, as well as several detail parts manufacturers:
http://www.bowser-trains.com/

Bowser engines are well engineered and sturdy, but they're OLD technology (some of the ex-Penn line offerings are 1950s vintage). As with most metal steamers (pre-Spectrum, anyway) they pick up one polarity from the engin, and the other from the tender. That makes them more succeptible to shorting and stalling than on modern steam with plastic frames and all-wheel pickup. And wiring all-metal steam for DCC is NOT as easy as isolating the motors: the old Pittmans have stall ratings in excess of 2.5 volts, well over what most decoders are rated for. And with all that metal surrounding a decoder/speaker, and touching all the time, you have to be REALLY sure that the electronics are fully isolated from the rest of the engine. Even then, it's much easier to see the magic blue smoke on a metal engine. Finally, Bowser engines are geared fairly high, so it'll be difficult to get them to consist (steam doesn't "MU") with more modern steam.

I suggest getting a third USRA light Mike from the same manufacturer that built your other two. For one thing, the Bowser engine really isn't a USRA engine (LOTS of stuff is incorrect on it, from the valve gear to the cab to the tender to much of the detailing). They also take a LONG time to detail (just drilling all the holes into the metal boiler takes forever). Why bother when you can superdetail a BLI in less time, for a better overall end result?

I've built several all-metal steamers, from Bowser to Varney to MDC and even an Arbour, so I do sort of know what I'm talking about here. These days, I only mess with metal steam when I absolutely can't get the specific prototype in any other form. I'm even looking at stretching a Bachmann 2-8-0 into a Harriman 2-8-2, just so I don't have to isolate and redetail a brass import (it's cheaper too!).

[beegle55]

Thanks alot Jim. Just what I needed. [tup]

[Soo Line fan]

http://www.bowser-trains.com/

Jim

[beegle55]

Is bowser like a website or what or ...?